In EQOA you did alot of grinding.... UNTIL specific levels where you would do armor quests to get set (all the same color so people could tell your class by the color of your armor) or the legendary weapon quest that gave you a badass looking weapon that also let people know your class just by sight. besides that Grinding which i liked bc i actually got to know people, make firendships, and build a community =-).
I think the question is, as an adventurer, what is my goal and motivation?
In EQ, my lvl 1 aspiration was to get to level 2. This meant killing rats...the level 1 ones, not the level 2 ones.
In GW, my motivation was to explore the pre-Char invasion land and meet people....I think.
In WoW, I was a new member of my race&class out to do things that benefit my race.
These three stories continue throughout those games to end cap. In EQ, I'm always out to get just a little stronger. In GW, I continued to explore the lands...and oh look, there's a new babble. In WoW, sweet a new way to benefit my faction (quest lines).
Part of the charm of EQ is that it was the most immersive for people who want to adventure; whereas WoW was great for players who like story or directed purpose.
I think a better balance was found in FFXIV; it broke down when you had to play the Skinner Box mechanics for progression later on...I don't want an indefinite time span of grinding that could be between 5 minutes and 2 days =/ But I did like the way the story and quests and grind all mixed together (up until the Skinner Box).
ESO is a good example of a game dominated by quests... Great graphics, lots of cool things, but could not make me stay there. EQ, progression was slow enough where you had the chance to explore much of the world. If you did a quest, it was only because you were after some kind of great end result or faction. So my answer is yes I like quests that you can do if you want, but are not required to progress.
I am a fan of rare things... Finding a rare scroll that opens up a unique quest that not all players will end up doing. Or anything similar to this Like drops... It really gives a sense of reason to play in the world in as many places as you can, knowing rare things could potentially present themselves at any moment.
I enjoy a good quest. Most MMOs now seem to use quests to guide players. That I don't like. It makes the game feel too linear. They're also designed so the player levels out of the area by the time the quests are completed. This generally is also possible because you level so quickly that you're constantly moving and never get to enjoy one area.
I think the quest I hate the most are the ones that ask me to go murder a mass amount of creatures over or for something minor. If you're going to ask me to kill for you, at least make me feel like there's a just cause for me to commit genocide.
My favorite quest is the epic I never completed in EQ1. I hope that Pantheon has quests as challenging and rewarding as the epics of EQ1.
In modern MMOs quests are the 'bus conductor' for your theme-park ride. They
(i) start at 'quest hubs', densely packed with quests which.... surprise surprise... can all be done in that area and, in many cases overlapping in requirements.
(ii) give MASSIVE ammounts of xp, way more than the xp gained to kill the mobs that drop the quest item.
(iii) they provide gear that is much better than most gear obtained through drops or 'average' crafting for that level.
These three things are anathema to immersion and balanced risk vs reward.
(i) If an NPC is offerring cash or goods for any wolf-tails you find [lets ssay he wants to remove the wolf pack nearby] he really doesn't care if you kill wolves or buy the tails from other wolf-slayers. What he offers will be things he can dispose of happily (things he has lots of) but not out of proportion to the task at hand. Ie the 'Quest must make sense'.
(ii) The Quest should not offer any XP (or virtually none) in all but exceptional cases where your character *learns* something! Any XP earned along the way is incidental and the quest giver doesn't care. What the quest giver *does* care about is that you helped him (hence + factions) and his enemies will also care about that (-ve faction with them). The faction gains/hits should be proportionate to the ammount of help you gave. Small quest = small gain.
(iii) With the exception of JBoots type quests [or Epic quests] the item result of a quest should not be 'better' that that obtained through drops or (more importantly) crafting. It may be that the 'item' from a quest is actually a 'letter of support' or some such item [which would offer a massive reduction in faction penalty for a particular faction] with 'more powerful' but narrow usage.
EG: A quest from a Dwarf which when (all 12 tasks are completed) grants a letter supporting your application to learn Dwarven at the local Dwarf School. Speaking Dwarven may be a necessary thing to have in order to remove the cap on your Snooty_Dwarf_Faction of 0. Learning Dwarven may be a difficulty of its own tho...
Raive said:Quests are important.
Tasks are not important.
The word "Quest" is used very loosely among MMOs nowadays.
Then someone should update the Wikipedia page to match the currently accepted terminology:
A quest in role-playing video games—including massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs) and their predecessors, MUDs—is a task that a player-controlled character, "party" or group of characters may complete in order to gain a reward.
Perhaps Everquest was misnamed, I'm sure we have all heard it called Evercamp, which to be honest was closer to the reality of the game. Epic quests were great, however I did not like the fact that some parts of the quests required huge time sinks, such as camping Ragefire or other mobs. Difficult and interesting is one thing, being required to stay up for 24 hours on the hope that your mob will spawn is ridiculous in my opinion. Please don't make the quests like that, I for one don't have the time or patience for that sort of thing anymore. Just my 2c.
Evoras said:In modern MMOs quests are the 'bus conductor' for your theme-park ride. They
(i) start at 'quest hubs', densely packed with quests which.... surprise surprise... can all be done in that area and, in many cases overlapping in requirements.
(ii) give MASSIVE ammounts of xp, way more than the xp gained to kill the mobs that drop the quest item.
(iii) they provide gear that is much better than most gear obtained through drops or 'average' crafting for that level.
These three things are anathema to immersion and balanced risk vs reward.
(i) If an NPC is offerring cash or goods for any wolf-tails you find [lets ssay he wants to remove the wolf pack nearby] he really doesn't care if you kill wolves or buy the tails from other wolf-slayers. What he offers will be things he can dispose of happily (things he has lots of) but not out of proportion to the task at hand. Ie the 'Quest must make sense'.
(ii) The Quest should not offer any XP (or virtually none) in all but exceptional cases where your character *learns* something! Any XP earned along the way is incidental and the quest giver doesn't care. What the quest giver *does* care about is that you helped him (hence + factions) and his enemies will also care about that (-ve faction with them). The faction gains/hits should be proportionate to the ammount of help you gave. Small quest = small gain.
(iii) With the exception of JBoots type quests [or Epic quests] the item result of a quest should not be 'better' that that obtained through drops or (more importantly) crafting. It may be that the 'item' from a quest is actually a 'letter of support' or some such item [which would offer a massive reduction in faction penalty for a particular faction] with 'more powerful' but narrow usage.
EG: A quest from a Dwarf which when (all 12 tasks are completed) grants a letter supporting your application to learn Dwarven at the local Dwarf School. Speaking Dwarven may be a necessary thing to have in order to remove the cap on your Snooty_Dwarf_Faction of 0. Learning Dwarven may be a difficulty of its own tho...
Feel like this needs to be quoted again, because this is a very intelligent, well thought out response. We're all now smarter for having read it.
Rominian said:Perhaps Everquest was misnamed, I'm sure we have all heard it called Evercamp, which to be honest was closer to the reality of the game. Epic quests were great, however I did not like the fact that some parts of the quests required huge time sinks, such as camping Ragefire or other mobs. Difficult and interesting is one thing, being required to stay up for 24 hours on the hope that your mob will spawn is ridiculous in my opinion. Please don't make the quests like that, I for one don't have the time or patience for that sort of thing anymore. Just my 2c.
Yes, since you don't have the time, don't do it, because nobody else has the time either. And we want to make sure that everyone who has no time can accomplish everything, that way we'll have a great game that requires you to login for an hour a day to complete all content. Wait... what?
Rominian said:Perhaps Everquest was misnamed, I'm sure we have all heard it called Evercamp, which to be honest was closer to the reality of the game. Epic quests were great, however I did not like the fact that some parts of the quests required huge time sinks, such as camping Ragefire or other mobs. Difficult and interesting is one thing, being required to stay up for 24 hours on the hope that your mob will spawn is ridiculous in my opinion. Please don't make the quests like that, I for one don't have the time or patience for that sort of thing anymore. Just my 2c.
Actually EQ was often called 'Ever-Crack' to point out its addictive properties!
camping 24 hours? I wish that was all that was needed!!
As a Mage with Epic, I had to leave my char camped in Plane of Sky for a WEEK since it took 2 x weekend Raids to get to the far end where the Mage drop was. And that assumed you were pretty much the only Mage there ..... and the raid went that far (all other epic drops from Sky were before the Mage one).
In addiition ..... QUILLMANE !
A mob, for those of you who don't know, that was an ultra-rare spawn from one of about 4 variable place-holders out of about 16 possible PH's in a very large outdoor zone. The placeholders were ALL wanderers as well .... as was the actual mob you wanted. To make matters worse, the Mage drop was actually a nice enough item in its own right that any might take it. Worse still the mob was pretty weak for the zone it was in, so anyone could (and did) kill it. Being a pegasus it also had the 'wow look at that... lets go kill it' factor.
Took me 10 MONTHS to get mine!! Not 10 hours, 10 days or even 10 weeks. Got to the point where I had completed pretty much everything else hehe.
PS don't you rogues even think about commenting hehe