Kittik said:So you get experience faster if you have more soul memory? So I should ding level 5, die, rince and repeat until I have 1 trillion soul memory? Then just level up 10% faster the rest of the game?
Not exactly, the math doesn't really work out in your favor, it just equals out over time.
Player A and Player B are both at 50% of the way through level 5.
Player A dies and is now at 40% of the way through level 5 and has that "missing" experience in his Soul Memory.
After X hours of playing together and neither playing dying again, player A and Player B are now both at 75% of the way through level 6 and both of them have an empty soul memory.
Kittik said:So you get experience faster if you have more soul memory? So I should ding level 5, die, rince and repeat until I have 1 trillion soul memory? Then just level up 10% faster the rest of the game?
I don't think that's how it works. Soul Memory is gaining back the experience you lost from a death, just at a slower pace. Kill a rat, you get 79 experience or whatever. Kill a rat with exp in your soul memory "bank" and it still gives you 79 exp, but you also get 10 exp back from your SM bank on top of what you got from killing the rat, for a total of 89 experience.
As I understand it, you don't lose any experience unless you're dying so much that your Soul Memory hits the cap and you keep dying when your bank is full. I think this system is a good compromise. The death still has negative consequences, but it only really starts hurting if you're being careless for multiple deaths in a row.
Corwyn said: ... As I understand it, you don't lose any experience unless you're dying so much that your Soul Memory hits the cap and you keep dying when your bank is full. I think this system is a good compromise. The death still has negative consequences, but it only really starts hurting if you're being careless for multiple deaths in a row.
IMO:
I think it's important to emphasize:
When you die, and you haven't gained quite a lot of experience into your current level, you will DE-LEVEL.
So, that experience, at the moment of death, is gone. You DE-LEVEL. It's gone. The number went down. :D You wouldn't lose a level if you didn't lose the XP.
That you have the soul memory after that point and how it's being misinterpreted is a completely separate topic vs. the fact that you DE-LEVEL. :)
Many testers understand that AFTER death, you gain this weird purple bar overlayed on top of your XP bar, which is the visual representation of the Soul Memory mechanic. Yet.. wait for it.. you de-leveled. XP you had? Poof, gone!
Currently: Death in Pantheon, even if it was implemented entirely without soul memory, has negative consequences. Many of them. Including De-Leveling.
Don't misunderstand me, I entirely understand that while Soul Memory is in effect, over the next 500-1000+ fights, you apparently gain a small amount of experience in addition to what you would normally gain. This is being spun as "your experience is not gone" while at the same time: You DE-LEVEL.
Given how badly Soul Memory is being misinterpreted by many/most/some testers? Trying to claim "you didn't lose any experience" while at the same time: You DE-LEVEL is a very VERY tough sell, logically. And it will remain misunderstood and confusing to new testers & players as long as this mechanic is implemented with these current features.
There are many better ways to implement this mechanic, and I hope VR uses one of them, immediately, based on the alpha testers feedback. This will also be an objective test to their continuous improvement process, internally. They claim they will make adjustments based on tester feedback. Well, the feedback is here, now, will there be an adjustment? Time to test the ol' integrity! :)
vjek said:I can say I would be much more in favor of the soul mastery mechanic from preventing you from leveling, than it allow you do de level, for instance imagine you're level 30, but you have 1% into the level and you died, I would much rather soul mastery take up let's say 5-10% and you have to successfully pay off the debt before gaining normal exp, as this one doesn't cost lost of power to a character you are playing, as the mere notion of losing said power could ultimately decide that you wouldn't want to play it for that night, which isn't a good feeling. But if you make the mechanic to prevent you from leveling seems more appropriate as that was the level in which you died in and you have to gain more exp inside that level to get to the next.Corwyn said: ... As I understand it, you don't lose any experience unless you're dying so much that your Soul Memory hits the cap and you keep dying when your bank is full. I think this system is a good compromise. The death still has negative consequences, but it only really starts hurting if you're being careless for multiple deaths in a row.IMO:
I think it's important to emphasize:
When you die, and you haven't gained quite a lot of experience into your current level, you will DE-LEVEL.
So, that experience, at the moment of death, is gone. You DE-LEVEL. It's gone. The number went down. :D You wouldn't lose a level if you didn't lose the XP.
That you have the soul memory after that point and how it's being misinterpreted is a completely separate topic vs. the fact that you DE-LEVEL. :)
Many testers understand that AFTER death, you gain this weird purple bar overlayed on top of your XP bar, which is the visual representation of the Soul Memory mechanic. Yet.. wait for it.. you de-leveled. XP you had? Poof, gone!Currently: Death in Pantheon, even if it was implemented entirely without soul memory, has negative consequences. Many of them. Including De-Leveling.
Don't misunderstand me, I entirely understand that while Soul Memory is in effect, over the next 500-1000+ fights, you apparently gain a small amount of experience in addition to what you would normally gain. This is being spun as "your experience is not gone" while at the same time: You DE-LEVEL.
Given how badly Soul Memory is being misinterpreted by many/most/some testers? Trying to claim "you didn't lose any experience" while at the same time: You DE-LEVEL is a very VERY tough sell, logically. And it will remain misunderstood and confusing to new testers & players as long as this mechanic is implemented with these current features.
There are many better ways to implement this mechanic, and I hope VR uses one of them, immediately, based on the alpha testers feedback. This will also be an objective test to their continuous improvement process, internally. They claim they will make adjustments based on tester feedback. Well, the feedback is here, now, will there be an adjustment? Time to test the ol' integrity! :)
I'm fine with examining whether de-leveling is a component of the overall death penalty that needs to exist or not. I don't love de-leveling. But I'm not so vehemently opposed to it. It is an element that is a strong incentive to avoid death if at all possible, and I'm in favor of non-trivial death penalties.
vjek said:So, that experience, at the moment of death, is gone. You DE-LEVEL. It's gone. The number went down.
This statement is misleading. Technically, the exp is not "gone" as I understand the system (unless you've already hit your Soul Memory cap). The exp is there on your body. When you recover your body, the exp on it goes into your SM "bank." As has already been stated elsewhere, the general consensus of PA testers is that the rate at which you recover Soul Memory experience is too low, and needs to be increased. Yes, you do in fact, De-level. However, the exp is not "lost" as you seem to think, or want to convince others that it does. Whether this is too harsh a penalty is completely subjective, based on one's own opinion. I'm of the opinion that it's not too harsh. Again, perhaps a compromise can be achieved, or simply having different ruleset servers would be the answer?
vjek said:There are many better ways to implement this mechanic, and I hope VR uses one of them, immediately, based on the alpha testers feedback. This will also be an objective test to their continuous improvement process, internally. They claim they will make adjustments based on tester feedback. Well, the feedback is here, now, will there be an adjustment? Time to test the ol' integrity! :)
Again, "better" is subjective, an opinion. Which, by the way, I think you can stop putting "IMO:" at the top of most of your posts. We know it's just in your opinion, that's what we're all here to do, provide feedback in the form of our opinions on how the game should play. Your opinion and mine are quite different. That's fine. Again, hopefully a compromise can be reached. If not, it seems like the logical solution is to provide alternate ruleset servers with different death penalties. Isn't that what is done for "hardcore" mode in other games? And separate PvP servers as well. Roleplaying-preferred servers also.
I'm fine with there being a server that has a more relaxed death penalty for you to play on. Just don't take away the gaming experience I want to have.
Corwyn said:
I'm fine with examining whether de-leveling is a component of the overall death penalty that needs to exist or not. I don't love de-leveling. But I'm not so vehemently opposed to it. It is an element that is a strong incentive to avoid death if at all possible, and I'm in favor of non-trivial death penalties.
vjek said:So, that experience, at the moment of death, is gone. You DE-LEVEL. It's gone. The number went down.
This statement is misleading. Technically, the exp is not "gone" as I understand the system (unless you've already hit your Soul Memory cap). The exp is there on your body. When you recover your body, the exp on it goes into your SM "bank." As has already been stated elsewhere, the general consensus of PA testers is that the rate at which you recover Soul Memory experience is too low, and needs to be increased. Yes, you do in fact, De-level. However, the exp is not "lost" as you seem to think, or want to convince others that it does. Whether this is too harsh a penalty is completely subjective, based on one's own opinion. I'm of the opinion that it's not too harsh. Again, perhaps a compromise can be achieved, or simply having different ruleset servers would be the answer?
vjek said:There are many better ways to implement this mechanic, and I hope VR uses one of them, immediately, based on the alpha testers feedback. This will also be an objective test to their continuous improvement process, internally. They claim they will make adjustments based on tester feedback. Well, the feedback is here, now, will there be an adjustment? Time to test the ol' integrity! :)
Again, "better" is subjective, an opinion. Which, by the way, I think you can stop putting "IMO:" at the top of most of your posts. We know it's just in your opinion, that's what we're all here to do, provide feedback in the form of our opinions on how the game should play. Your opinion and mine are quite different. That's fine. Again, hopefully a compromise can be reached. If not, it seems like the logical solution is to provide alternate ruleset servers with different death penalties. Isn't that what is done for "hardcore" mode in other games? And separate PvP servers as well. Roleplaying-preferred servers also.
I'm fine with there being a server that has a more relaxed death penalty for you to play on. Just don't take away the gaming experience I want to have.
If your only argument against what he said is essentially "No, you" and make a snide comment against his "IMO:" intro to his posts, then your argument is far weaker than you think it is. He's right, when you de-level it means you don't have the XP to get that level, meaning it's gone. It's much like money in the bank. If you have 500 dollars, and you have a charge of 50 for groceries, lets say; you don't still have 50 in the bank, that's now gone. What, are you going to justify it by saying, well I technically have 50, because I'll get paid in the next two weeks. No, you don't have it, it's gone, it doesn't matter what you spent it on, it's no longer in the bank; you don't have that money any longer. If you still had those XP on your body, when you went and recovered it and got back to it, you should get it back; I mean after all, you said it's on your body right? So why is there the need for this "Soul Memory" in the first place if your XP is on your body? Why are you still de-leveled and in a XP deficit if all your lost XP is still on your body? It doesn't matter how you ty to twist and swing the argument that you don't really lose something, it's crystal clear you lost it, and they are just trying ot convince everyone that it's not really gone. Vjek is right, it's gone, there is no debt, there is not XP laying around, it's completely gone.
OCastitatisLilium said:If your only argument against what he said is essentially "No, you" and make a snide comment against his "IMO:" intro to his posts, then your argument is far weaker than you think it is. He's right, when you de-level it means you don't have the XP to get that level, meaning it's gone. It's much like money in the bank. If you have 500 dollars, and you have a charge of 50 for groceries, lets say; you don't still have 50 in the bank, that's now gone. What, are you going to justify it by saying, well I technically have 50, because I'll get paid in the next two weeks. No, you don't have it, it's gone, it doesn't matter what you spent it on, it's no longer in the bank; you don't have that money any longer. If you still had those XP on your body, when you went and recovered it and got back to it, you should get it back; I mean after all, you said it's on your body right? So why is there the need for this "Soul Memory" in the first place if your XP is on your body? Why are you still de-leveled and in a XP deficit if all your lost XP is still on your body? It doesn't matter how you ty to twist and swing the argument that you don't really lose something, it's crystal clear you lost it, and they are just trying ot convince everyone that it's not really gone. Vjek is right, it's gone, there is no debt, there is not XP laying around, it's completely gone.
If the "IMO" thing is the biggest thing you focused on in my post, then I think you've missed the point of most of the rest of what I was saying. And I guess the Soul Memory system may just be too complex for some people. That is something that VR will have to address. Either through changing the game mechanic itself, the way it is explained in-game (or lack thereof), or simply providing different ruleset servers that allows you to play the way you want to, and also allows me to play the way I want to.
Corwyn said:OCastitatisLilium said:If your only argument against what he said is essentially "No, you" and make a snide comment against his "IMO:" intro to his posts, then your argument is far weaker than you think it is. He's right, when you de-level it means you don't have the XP to get that level, meaning it's gone. It's much like money in the bank. If you have 500 dollars, and you have a charge of 50 for groceries, lets say; you don't still have 50 in the bank, that's now gone. What, are you going to justify it by saying, well I technically have 50, because I'll get paid in the next two weeks. No, you don't have it, it's gone, it doesn't matter what you spent it on, it's no longer in the bank; you don't have that money any longer. If you still had those XP on your body, when you went and recovered it and got back to it, you should get it back; I mean after all, you said it's on your body right? So why is there the need for this "Soul Memory" in the first place if your XP is on your body? Why are you still de-leveled and in a XP deficit if all your lost XP is still on your body? It doesn't matter how you ty to twist and swing the argument that you don't really lose something, it's crystal clear you lost it, and they are just trying ot convince everyone that it's not really gone. Vjek is right, it's gone, there is no debt, there is not XP laying around, it's completely gone.
If the "IMO" thing is the biggest thing you focused on in my post, then I think you've missed the point of most of the rest of what I was saying. And I guess the Soul Memory system may just be too complex for some people. That is something that VR will have to address. Either through changing the game mechanic itself, the way it is explained in-game (or lack thereof), or simply providing different ruleset servers that allows you to play the way you want to, and also allows me to play the way I want to.
That wasn't all I focused on but, sure, whatever makes you feel better. Also, you acting like you are somehow more intelligent than others because you somehow understand the mental runaround they want to give with this stupid system says more about you than anyone else here. Again, you didn't even refute that was I said was true or not so whatever bud. You keep thinking that you are somehow superior to others when it comes to intellect, whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Keep your backhanded comments to yourself.
OCastitatisLilium said:
That wasn't all I focused on but, sure, whatever makes you feel better. Also, you acting like you are somehow more intelligent than others because you somehow understand the mental runaround they want to give with this stupid system says more about you than anyone else here. Again, you didn't even refute that was I said was true or not so whatever bud. You keep thinking that you are somehow superior to others when it comes to intellect, whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Keep your backhanded comments to yourself.
Forgive me, I did not intend to insult anyone. But, from your previous comment, it appears to me that you genuinely don't understand how it works. Which is a problem that VR will have to address, because you clearly are not the only one.
I hope VR gets Pantheon to a point where it's ready to release, and they have different servers set up with different rulesets, so we can all enjoy playing the game the way we want to.
Corwyn said:OCastitatisLilium said:
That wasn't all I focused on but, sure, whatever makes you feel better. Also, you acting like you are somehow more intelligent than others because you somehow understand the mental runaround they want to give with this stupid system says more about you than anyone else here. Again, you didn't even refute that was I said was true or not so whatever bud. You keep thinking that you are somehow superior to others when it comes to intellect, whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Keep your backhanded comments to yourself.
Forgive me, I did not intend to insult anyone. But, from your previous comment, it appears to me that you genuinely don't understand how it works. Which is a problem that VR will have to address, because you clearly are not the only one.
I hope VR gets Pantheon to a point where it's ready to release, and they have different servers set up with different rulesets, so we can all enjoy playing the game the way we want to.
Firstly, this system is not complex: you can get experience boost when you die. Call it what it is. That's ALL this mechanic is. It is not any more complicated than that, even if it is obtusely explained in-game. It's just a stacking experience boost you get for dying, with a cap up to three deaths. To call it anything else is over-complicating it, or pretending that it is something 'original' or 'clever' or 'never before done', as a solution to a problem of VR's own making.
Secondly, please do everyone here a favor and go to Google. Then type in the phrase 'Dunning Kruger effect', and click on the wikipedia page. Give that a read for a little bit. Because if you think that everyone here is misunderstanding what an experience boost and recovery mechanic is, and that you can't explain it despite being the only one 'getting it', maybe the problem is sitting in your seat; no offense intended, of course.
As you can see, I understand it perfectly fine: It's essentially an XP boost. Tell me though, why do I need an XP boost after I die if all of my XP is supposedly on my body? Why is there a need for this XP debt thing if my XP is on my body? Shouldn't I be able to just pick it up once I get back to my body if it's sitting there? Shouldn't I pop back up to level if it's actually sitting on my corpse? How is it that my XP is on my body, but then suddenly I have a XP boost after death? Simple, because the XP is gone, it's not there at all; it's been lost. It doesn't matter how you swing it, it's still gone. If it was there on the body, then how does the XP on my body suddenly turn into a debt if it's supposed to be at my body? What is the purpose of having it sitting there on the body only to turn into a debt. You can't owe XP if you have it sitting there on the corpse?
OCastitatisLilium said:
Firstly, this system is not complex: you can get experience boost when you die. Call it what it is. That's ALL this mechanic is. It is not any more complicated than that, even if it is obtusely explained in-game. It's just a stacking experience boost you get for dying, with a cap up to three deaths. To call it anything else is over-complicating it, or pretending that it is something 'original' or 'clever' or 'never before done', as a solution to a problem of VR's own making.
Secondly, please do everyone here a favor and go to Google. Then type in the phrase 'Dunning Kruger effect', and click on the wikipedia page. Give that a read for a little bit. Because if you think that everyone here is misunderstanding what an experience boost and recovery mechanic is, and that you can't explain it despite being the only one 'getting it', maybe the problem is sitting in your seat; no offense intended, of course.
As you can see, I understand it perfectly fine: It's essentially an XP boost. Tell me though, why do I need an XP boost after I die if all of my XP is supposedly on my body? Why is there a need for this XP debt thing if my XP is on my body? Shouldn't I be able to just pick it up once I get back to my body if it's sitting there? Shouldn't I pop back up to level if it's actually sitting on my corpse? How is it that my XP is on my body, but then suddenly I have a XP boost after death? Simple, because the XP is gone, it's not there at all; it's been lost. It doesn't matter how you swing it, it's still gone. If it was there on the body, then how does the XP on my body suddenly turn into a debt if it's supposed to be at my body? What is the purpose of having it sitting there on the body only to turn into a debt. You can't owe XP if you have it sitting there on the corpse?
Oddly enough, I was actually aware of the Dunning Kruger effect before you suggested it. The fact that you did it in the manner you did suggests you think I'm incompetent in this arena. But, I'll put the personal attack aside. I hold you no ill will.
Someone else may correct me if I'm wrong, but the Soul Memory mechanic's primary intention seems to be having a non-trivial death penalty without being overly punitive. Now, we can argue about which parts are too harsh and which parts are fine until the end of days. You don't seem to like de-leveling. I understand that. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean someone else doesn't like it. I'm not a huge fan of de-leveling myself. But I don't want to deprive someone who appreciates the additional risk vs. reward that a harsher penalty provides, nor the sense of accomplishment someone gets from achieving max level, epic quests, etc. while playing within the constraints of the harder penalty. Again, "hardcore" mode in other games is a perfect example of this. I have no interest in playing hardcore WoW and trying to get to max level, farming BiS gear, successfully completing raids, etc., all while being limited to a single life. But I have no interest in denying the people who want that experience because I happen to disagree with it.
But the fact remains that the Soul Memory system is intended to be a middle ground or compromise between "exp loss for every death" and "no exp loss upon death." As designed, the system only starts to really "punish" someone who has died multiple times in a row. When you die, 10% of your current level's exp is taken from your exp bar, which can de-level you. But that exp does not disappear (unless you're already at the cap because of too many deaths). It is in limbo on your corpse until you go loot your corpse. When you loot your corpse, all of the exp that you "lost" is transferred to your Soul Memory "bank." So it's not even really an exp "boost" either. It's exp that you already gained before, just being slowly given back to you as a "reward" for recovering your corpse and not dying a bunch more. It's a deterrent to careless play and dying a lot. And as has already been stated, the rate of recovery of this exp seems to be a bit slow right now. This can be tweaked until VR hits a "sweet spot" that most players feel okay with.
If you don't like the mechanic of de-leveling and slowly getting the exp back, you're not wrong and you're not alone. Would you be more comfortable with the system if the slow recovery of exp on corpse recovery was unchanged, but the de-leveling component is removed? These are the things that need to be discussed here and the feedback made clear to VR.
But I still maintain I would prefer a noticeable death penalty. I'm fine with the way the current death/de-leveling/Soul Memory system works. If you're not, I don't know if there will be a compromise that we can both agree to. Which is why the only solution may be alternate ruleset servers so you can pick one that most closely resembles how you prefer to play.
Honestly, I don't hold you any ill will for having a different opinion from me. I just want to make it clear to VR that there are plenty of us out here who don't hold the same opinion as you. Neither of us are "right" or "wrong" about this. We just have differing opinions on what is "fun," which is another highly subjective term.
It is time to stop the personal attacks. This forum is for discussing Pantheon and its features. Not other commenter's personality, intelligence or motives. If you don't agree with them, state it and move on.
The Rules and Guidelines of these forums have changed not so long ago, members who haven't read them in a while should do so.
Rule 1 is "Show respect to other users at all times. No name-calling, insults, or personal attacks toward anyone."
https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/14508/official-forum-rules-and-guidelines
Personally, I would like to see a rare boss mob that will suck the Exp out of you permanently. Maybe a vampire or a wight. And please try to recall some of the old EQ abilities/spells. I seem to recall Necros could suck your exp into emeralds? for later use? I am old and may be off my rocker here. But recall sacrificing a lot for some purpose - corpse recovery maybe? I dunno. I like that idea. Sacrifice some exp into some sort of phylactery for corpse retrieval at some time - like when you die at the feet of something camping your corpse. I think I solo'd most of the first month of EQ2. In short order I was the third richest person world-wide (didn't have to share loot!). But I also was number one world-wide in deaths. But I always recovered my corpse/shard. I think maybe Enchanters do get a bit of a leg up on corpse recovery: simply mezz the mob camping your corpse and either loot or drag away. Hmm. Maybe that would be a great use for Jewelcrafting. Craft a gem that absorbs your XP while playing. When full you simply destroy the gem and it summons your corpse too you. Too powerful? Put some limits on it maybe - make it so that it only works in the zone your corpse is in? I could imagine a Direlord wielding a sword with a gem in it that sucks exp from mobs they hit for other uses etc. Lots to think about...
I think that we can all agree on the fact that the Soul Memory is a clever way of proposing a middle ground for death penalty, but it is basically not something you understand when it is not explained to you at length... I didn't when I first ran into SM as tester. May be it is actually too clever ! It is meant to be a reward and it feels like it is a punishment, and the fact that numbers in the SM climb rapidly does not help.
Now that being said, let us also remember that it is still Pre-Alpha, that VR is going to wipe us multiple times of ALL of XP not later than soon, so, no offense, I couldn't care less about deaths and death penalty right now. Let us propose some meaningful ways to improve the system and I see multiple questions that need to be solved here:
- How can the system be made understandable, if it is to remain as it is? I saw several suggestions here that could a path. One simple way is of course simply to make a pop-up when you reach lvl 5 that explains the system. Or like suggested, make the XP boost a buff that is visible to you, or when you earn XP, make it "You gained 70XP + 7SMXP"... the system has to be better explained. Now that being said, do we really need a dev to spend several hours to address that NOW?
- Then there is the harshness of the system, and the leniency. Go look up an other post I made (for those that have access to it). Basically, 10% loss right of the bat is a bit harsh and then, once rez is easily available to you, you basically loose nothing. Make it a bit more progressive and don't give all XP back from a revive.
- Deleveling is kinda particular: it means that death is much more punitive at the start of your newly acquired level than later on. Why should it? I think personnaly, right now, that having one lvl more is more important than having better gear (but I also contend that we are still early in the game. guess going from lvl 4 to lv 5 is different than going from lvl 44 to lvl 45). One way of seeing lvls could be to be stop considering levels as INTEGERS but as FLOATS. Why shouldn't I be better at lvl 4.99 than at lvl 4.00 ? and then suddenly at lvl 5 ! DING ! Changing lvls (integer values of a lvl) could still be an integral part of getting caps, etc. but having a more linear approach to lvls would solve a lot of problems, and deleveling wouldn't be as harsh of a punishment.
XP loss is nothing but a small minor time sync. It was introduced to prolong the game. Same applied to crafting, exploring.
Gen Z will say, OH man this has XP loss? i am not playing that game. It's too difficult for me.
Boomers will say, suck it up Kid.
Gen X will say, Dad come on don't be so rough on your grandson.
Gen Z says, "have you seen my corpse?"
Boomer says that is part of DEI
Can't we all get along? LOL
While the concept of death should hold weight in games, the traditional experience point loss feels outdated. It's time for innovative and more engaging consequences that enhance gameplay dynamics without relying on a mechanism that may hinder enjoyment rather than enriching the gaming experience.
To the OP I would rather de-level then have to worry about making coin in a game. While I am sure many people dislike repairing there gear, but I would not be surprised if they dislike it a little less then me. I have just never been any good at making money in an mmo. If I am in a group I rarely loot and I almost never bother to farm an item to sell it. I would rather give an item away to someone that needs it then to try to make coin off it. The idea of gear repair is also not new, it has been in many games for a long time.
The current death penalty system over all feels about right. Death has enough negatives to make me more cautions while at the same time I can get back into the fight with the gear I had on relatively quick. I imagine with rezes it will be even faster with less penalty.
The one thing I do feel kinda sucks about the de-leveling is it will only be an issue as you level to max level. Anyone at max level will for the most part never have that issues ever again. Not sure the fear of death should diminish just because you hit max level.
Soul memory over all works for me but you do earn it back supper slow. Not sure the speed feels right to me. It seems clear based on others posts soul memory needs to be better explained. That said I do not get the confusion people are having, it seemed really intuitive to me. I did learn a couple things later I did not figure out right away. Like only 3 deaths worth of EXP can be stored at once or that you needed to loot your corpse to get soul memory.
If the 3 death limit was supposed to add more fear as you reached your cap it did not work on me. My guess is the extremely slow earn back rate made me consider it a small thing, too small to effect my behavior.
StoneFish said: The experience I want is to fear death.
Ok, so what makes you fear death in a game?
sarika78 said:While the concept of death should hold weight in games, the traditional experience point loss feels outdated. It's time for innovative and more engaging consequences that enhance gameplay dynamics without relying on a mechanism that may hinder enjoyment rather than enriching the gaming experience.
Ok, so give an example, if you can, of 'innovative and more engaging consequences'.
Crazzie said:XP loss is nothing but a small minor time sync. It was introduced to prolong the game. Same applied to crafting, exploring.
Gen Z will say, OH man this has XP loss? i am not playing that game. It's too difficult for me.
Boomers will say, suck it up Kid.
Gen X will say, Dad come on don't be so rough on your grandson.
Gen Z says, "have you seen my corpse?"
Boomer says that is part of DEI
Can't we all get along? LOL
Funny
What I find interesting is that for a little while one of the biggest surges in the MMO community has been Hardcore World of Warcraft, and a bunch of streamers played it and they did MC with zero deaths. They had a lot of help and used a lot of gimmicks to get there, but they nonetheless did it. What I found rather interesting is when Sodapoppin ( person I watched) and a bunch of other streamers were talking about what made the hardcore element so much fun. Soda said that it brought the zones to life. Many of the streamers and people playing in general that watched agreed with that sentiment.
So death should matter enough to make the zone come to life. I know everquest's death penalty brought the world to life, so I am wondering how much of softening can you do to the death penalty where it still brings life to the world. Money and durability will never do that. You need something to fear...fear and high risk vs reward scenarios bring the world to life.
The only thing I can see is corpse runs and fear of losing everything....but there is probably other methods that are less severe.