What I see discussed in other places is along the lines of the following.
A version of what is currently being tested - perhaps with more survival game aspects - will be rolled out on a 24/7 basis. Not simply as a way to better test Pantheon itself but as a somewhat stand-alone game for which you will charge. Not with the intent of abandoning the plans to develop Pantheon but as a stopgap measure to help fund development and with the intent of going back to development of the real Pantheon sometime next year.
This information, or perhaps this rumor, appears to be supported by leaks from VIP testers and appears to be credibly supported by things said by senior VR personnel. It is entirely consistent with the art changes and why they were made. It is entirely consistent with the dramatic reduction in offical VR information provided to the community as a whole lately. In short - I believe that it is quite likely true - in general if not in every rumored particular.
Is there anything you can say to the community as a whole - meaning the community that relies on these forums not Reddit or Facebook or Discord for official information about how development and testing are going?
Note - my preference would be for this thread to be limited to either responses by VR or information from other people that sheds some light on what may be happening. I have tried very hard to put things as neutrally as possible and express neither support or lack of support for any changes that may be happening. Keeping those to other threads will help keep any tidbits of real information from being drowned in the predictable praise for or criticism of these potential changes.
I think based on the 38 views and 0 replies you can see no one (especially VR) wants to touch this with a 10-foot-pole right now. Discord is hopping, but that is basically just a bunch of nerds (including me) speculating. I know you are hoping for something more official.
I just don't get it. Did they not state multiple times over the last couple years: "We are fully funded until the release of Pantheon"
So why all of a sudden do they need to make a moba/survival game to make extra money? They only have 30 people, this is clearly taking away from development of Pantheon. I have no interest in any genre other than MMORPG. I would have preferred that they just drop certain systems and release a simpler game, then add the systems in later expansions.
I am ok with the fact that Alpha pledgers are going to be able to play though ... But I do think it would be fun to do some PVPVE with some of you guys and gals.
Very mixed feelings about this news, overall. Very confused.
Ruinar - I agree no one wants to touch this. But given that quite a few of us have seen reports on Massively Overpowered or discussions on Reddit or Discord I thought it should be touched. What VR actually intends cannot be any worse than what the most negative speculations are and can be a lot better. Silence will no longer serve them well given all the noise so I encourage them to tell us what they think they can tell us.
Prevenge - they have long said that they have enough money to see the game through to release. This has been factually correct but you need to note the absence of a time frame. Barring a significant investor or publisher coming forward they have not had and do not have enough money to see it through to release in a reasonable time frame. Nothing new here - things are just becoming a bit more obvious.
You might also note the various staffing anouncements over the years and the rah-rah from some people about how these were wonderful and a sign of real progress. This was accurate enough but somewhat less well understood was that many, most or all of the staff is part time and remote and hiring someone to work 5 hours a week or a month is not the same as a full time hire.
Prevenge, the insistence on things like climbing, perception, acclimation systems etc was baffling.
The game was actually great in previous sessions. Very much a successor to EQ/Vanguard.
All they needed to do was build out the game world with Unity assets (what they had done so far with the Thronefast zone) and finish up the classes.
They would have had a releasable game that played very well. Then like you said add the other systems in later.
Anyway, im sure once the minigame gets released they will get right back to the MMO development.
I mean personally I don't even like the ideas of the perception or acclimation systems. Just thinking about managing all that feels cumbersome. Collecting acclimation pieces that seem to be level/time gated anyways, just feels like a pointless endeavor. That's not fun, that's a chore. Don't give me chores, if I want chores I'll go play WoW. I love to grind many hours for the things I want. I HATE to grind even half an hour for the things I HAVE to have just because of design.
Personally for acclimation to a zone, I would have just had certain classes at certain levels able to buff their party with spells that warmed them up in cold zones, or gave them longer breathing underwater etc. Or made it so that levitate was required on your whole party in lava zones. Systems that make people play together and require eachother even more. More of the community stuff, like OG corpse summons, world travel through ports, exp% revivals. I'd love to see more systems added into this category.
I definitely want climbing though. I absolutely love the idea of climbing. A good climbing system would really open up a world, if it was designed with that in mind.
Well who knows, maybe this moba thing will be fun and keep our minds off all this for a little while ...
lotuss79 said:Prevenge, the insistence on things like climbing, perception, acclimation systems etc was baffling.
The game was actually great in previous sessions. Very much a successor to EQ/Vanguard.
I would agree. I have no idea where those mechanics came from, seems like they spent a lot of time on them and they were really not mechanics that people were interested in, especially the acclimation to weather? I thought that the gameplay was looking pretty good actually but now it feels like they are out of money and want to release a mobile game. I would be fine with them creating new revenue streams if their intention is to go back and finish the real game. Just get rid of those other mechanics or wait and roll them out in later expansions maybe?
Horse said:lotuss79 said: Prevenge, the insistence on things like climbing, perception, acclimation systems etc was baffling.I would agree. I have no idea where those mechanics came from, seems like they spent a lot of time on them and they were really not mechanics that people were interested in, especially the acclimation to weather?
Clearly some things will have to be delayed until after release. But those systems that so many people in recent years described as 'feature creep' like perception, dispostions & traits, acclimation, etc. have all been intended features of the game from very early days of planning. Ever since the website in 2016, they have been on this site.
They 'really are mechanics that people were interested in'. And still are.
the last few crowdfunded games who came out with a monetized minigame that was not in the same spirit as the original did not do well. It was essentially their dead cat bounce. (Camelot unchained ragnarok anyone?)
If that is the plan, I think it is a bad idea :(
But regardless, the people who are thinking of pledging should be informed one way or another. Most people assume 24/7 server in this case would be the server we have seen all the twitch/youtube footage on being available for testing/playing 24 hours a day 7 days a week, not a minigame with pantheon assets that is stopping the testing of the mmo they are pledging for. This pause is supposedly until next year? but timelines have always been a bit flexible here, so it is concerning.
It will be like being promised a pie and being given a pizza. Both could be considered "pies" but they are fundamentally different and you would probably demand a refund if you weren't in the mood for a savory meal or allergic to garlic lol.
Please don't tiptoe around the questions, it just feels so shady. Be 100% forthcoming if the project shifted to testing a gameplay loop that was not originally advertised (moba, extraction, king of the hill, whatever) I understand you are transparent for VIPs, but this stuff is the kind of info that should be made available to everyone since it sounds like a fundamental shift in gameplay.
If it is all a lie, it should be catagorically denied. If it is true, it should be completely clarified instead of letting everyone come up with their own theories that may or may not be worse than what is actually happening. I am sure we all have quite vivid imaginations here, but VR should be steering the narrative, not our imaginations :)
Jothany said:Horse said:lotuss79 said: Prevenge, the insistence on things like climbing, perception, acclimation systems etc was baffling.I would agree. I have no idea where those mechanics came from, seems like they spent a lot of time on them and they were really not mechanics that people were interested in, especially the acclimation to weather?
Clearly some things will have to be delayed until after release. But those systems that so many people in recent years described as 'feature creep' like perception, dispostions & traits, acclimation, etc. have all been intended features of the game from very early days of planning. Ever since the website in 2016, they have been on this site.
They 'really are mechanics that people were interested in'. And still are.
dorotea - "Note - my preference would be for this thread to be limited to either responses by VR or" nothing yet? how odd (insert sarcasm)
[cryptic hint] When is an MMO not an MMO?
lotuss79 said:the vast majority do not want...
Until you post some supporting evidence about what the majority wants or doesn't want, you're just attributing your own opinion to everybody else.
There are over 28,000 Pantheon fans registered on these forums. ALL the people who have voiced any opinion, good or bad, about the state of Pantheon - both here and on Discord - amount to well under 15% of that. We haven't heard from the the other 85%. And despite protests to the contrary, a significant percent of those who have voiced an opinion have been positive.
You're entitled to your opinion. But you do NOT speak for "the vast majority".
Ok, so.. Whether this is the the final push off a cliff that some people think, or really is just gaining some extra money and Pantheon is still well under development, one very important question remains.
Is the new minigame fun?
I mean, I'm not happy about the news, but at least my 300 bucks for alpha, is going to let me play something, finally.
For the crimes of trying to keep things civil, every day, in these forums, we can all hunt down Jothany :)
Also for everyone who's REALLY mad, you'll probably get some chances at VR staff, too.
Prevenge said:Ok, so.. Whether this is the the final push off a cliff that some people think, or really is just gaining some extra money and Pantheon is still well under development, one very important question remains.
Is the new minigame fun?
I mean, I'm not happy about the news, but at least my 300 bucks for alpha, is going to let me play something, finally.
For the crimes of trying to keep things civil, every day, in these forums, we can all hunt down Jothany :)
Also for everyone who's REALLY mad, you'll probably get some chances at VR staff, too.
If I enjoyed PVP at all maybe. I have zero interest in PVP. That said, if there is a PVE mode that is entertaining I will play it. Hell, I paid for it already.
Jothany said:lotuss79 said:the vast majority do not want...Until you post some supporting evidence about what the majority wants or doesn't want, you're just attributing your own opinion to everybody else.
There are over 28,000 Pantheon fans registered on these forums. ALL the people who have voiced any opinion, good or bad, about the state of Pantheon - both here and on Discord - amount to well under 15% of that. We haven't heard from the the other 85%. And despite protests to the contrary, a significant percent of those who have voiced an opinion have been positive.
You're entitled to your opinion. But you do NOT speak for "the vast majority".
Ok you got me, you quoted a sentence fragment and you're right, i have no evidence to prove waht the "vast amjority" want.
You of course claimed people Do want them in your previous post, so.
Anyway, the rest of my point stands.
And frankly, at this point, i really don't need to "produce proof" when being critical of the direction of the game.
It all depends what the actual plan is. If they are developing a side project and planning to siphon development time/pledger money to develop this in the hope it makes a great profit to then in the future continue and quicken the MMO development process - in my opinion this is a disgrace and entirely unethical to not let new pledgers or upgrading pledgers aware of what they are getting themselves into.
I've read a lot of excitement from lower tier packages about the prospect of 24/7 testing whom are thinking of upgrading - if they are being sold a lie that is just not right.
In my opinion pledges should be frozen until there is more clarity. Otherwise we are just going down the same slipperly slope of other failed kickstarter MMO's which just ends up in resentment and lawsuits.
I've asked the question: What is the break-even point for 247? How many copies do you need to sell just to offset the increased support/maintenance/bandwidth costs that you will incur? You're going to need to hire customer support people, server admins, etc, etc etc. All that costs money. What happens if you dont go past the break-even point, then what? You'll just be burning more money that you already do not have.
