Are you freeking serious with this?
Looks like a mobile game targeting pre-teens with their parents credit card.
At first i thought they might WoW this thing up too much, but they went straight to Hello Kitty: Rise of the Fallen.
Cash shop is right around the corner.
You sure Bait and Switched me good though, so congrats on that.
By Pantheon. I have no "constructive criticism" for you. You're too far gone.
I posted on the post with the You Tube link so I wont reiterate what I said over there. Just that I find myself in agreement with you guys (for a change). It does feel child-like now and we should have had way more than 5 minutes of video that had no real discussion what so ever.
Deeply disappointed about the change in art design. "Hand crafted" = cartoon WoW mobile knock off. The character models... for 2004 they look great I guess. I wish VR could admit they don't have the resources, staffing, time to finish this game with the more realistic art/graphics and had to dumb it down.
Look at another MMO in developmnt, Ashes of Creation. That is the graphic environment and character fidelity Pantheon needs to shoot for.
They have strayed too far from "The Vision" with this art update and quite frankly I feel alienated. I pledged for alpha access almost 7 years ago methinks it is time to let this project go.
edit added:100% certain a cash shop will be added.
I know this negativity can be difficult to read for the people working their asses off to produce this art especially if they are excited about the new look and I am sorry for the distress it may cause you. That said I believe it is our privilege as pre-alpha, alpha, and beta pledgers to provide our honest feedback on these things.
I pledged in 2018, I think, and since I did I will continue to follow the project in hopes that we end up with the game I had been hoping for when I first signed up, just with terrible graphics. That said, I'm not sure that if I hadn't pledged in 2018 I would still pledge in 2023 for a number of reasons. I rewatched the clip before posting this and the art has not grown on me since last night. If anything I like it less. I didn't notice at the end of the video last night that the human warior was in the most ridiculous looking armor that didn't even resemble plate armor, even including stupid spaulders that come halfway up his face and more gaps than a 6-year-olds teeth.
I'm very disappointed. It's so much worse because closing out 2022 they had gotten significant investment, Cohh was streaming pre-alpha as well as other comunity members and it really felt like Alpha was around the corner. ViNL was supposed to be implemented so that pet classes could be developed. VR was talking about class showcases which they have done before and usually only make it through a few classes before they run out of content and come back a year or two later to do class showcases again, as if the showcases from two years ago hadn't happened. Remember when they were saying things like "6 weeks to implement a class" or something close to that?
I'll add my voice to those saying that I do not like the art style, it looks like a mobile game that I would install on my tablet to babysit my kids while I play big boy games (being sarcastic there, but you get my point).
This is not the game I pledged to in 2015.
Things change, I get it. But... this change in art direction...
I'm devoid of hope. A couple of frames in the very short, very abruptly ended video made me think I could live with it. I mean after all graphics are not always the be-all, end-all if a game is good and solid. But after so many years of hearing that THIS is going to be the thing that puts us on track only to come completely off the rails yet again....
Were those human models really meant to showcase how great this new art is? I immensely dislike the matchy-matchy armor and can't see how we are going to be able to create unique characters when everything is so basic.
I'm trying to imagine what weather effects are going to look like--or are those being scrapped as well? Will all spell casts simply look like little sparklies around your fingertips to indicate that you're casting?
I'm so disappointed. I don't feel like I'm the targeted demographic for this game any longer. I'm still watching but I'm not going to bother to hope any more. Guess I'll know for sure once(if) alpha comes around.
I absolutely respect everyone at VR for what they have attempted to build and the extreme pressures/challenges that game developers face but this is definitely not the game that was envisioned. The art appears as though it's meant to appeal to children. I would rather see the team scale down game mechanics/world size than settle for something like this. It just looks like a mobile game now that kids will play on their cell phone. Even if they just took parts of the game and sold it as a mobile game in order to raise revenue to fund the "real game" would be better in my opinion.
I think the reason they only showed us 5 minutes of concept art and minor changes to the game, is that they are fully ready and waiting to course correct, where necessary.
I don't think screaming how much you hate it, really helps them. Tell them what you like, tell them what you don't like, suggest changes. This is the way.
If VR has proven anything over the years, it's that they are listening to the community and willing to change course, when necessary.
It may be that....
They have to pay back the 2.4 million dollar investment they were given that they aren't sure they can pay back when/if the game releases, so they went ahead and opened the game up to children and other audiences for garunteed profit.
chenzeme said:I posted on the post with the You Tube link so I wont reiterate what I said over there. Just that I find myself in agreement with you guys (for a change). It does feel child-like now and we should have had way more than 5 minutes of video that had no real discussion what so ever.
Its been a long time coming sadly.
Yep, the 5 min video is a total insult. They even spoke to us like we are children (We're soo excited to introduce to you our exciting new art direction, aren't you excited!)
Furthermore, this has nothing to do with smooth gameplay nonsense. The graphics from the 2016 era streams were simpler yet still realistic. [Mind NDA]
This is 100% about having $'s in their eyes and wanting to make as broadly, and blandly applealing a game as possible.
The community of pledgers who got them off the ground and made this possible are being dumped in favor of an exciting new demografic of kiddo-s.
This is Not the game that was promissed to the original and loyal fanebase. They don't care about any of that.
Prevenge said:I think the reason they only showed us 5 minutes of concept art and minor changes to the game, is that they are fully ready and waiting to course correct, where necessary.
I don't think screaming how much you hate it, really helps them. Tell them what you like, tell them what you don't like, suggest changes. This is the way.If VR has proven anything over the years, it's that they are listening to the community and willing to change course, when necessary.
I dont think anyone was screaming, alot of these comments are very sincere. Also, people ARE telling them what they like and dislike, litereally. Someone mentioned the armor style, the matching colors, another mentioned that its not the same game as when they pledged, etc.
Where it started: "We're identifying a target audience, and we're going to focus on them and make a really great game for them," McQuaid says. "We're not going to concern ourselves with the fact that there may be other MMO fans who may not like our game."
Where it's at now: "We expect Pantheon to reach more audiences. We believe the style resonates with more gamers across more demographics bringing more people together into this growing community."
A simpler style could have been agreeable to most, I think, if it had retained more elements of the original mature imagery but it is pretty unrecognizable now, closely resembling titles we're all aware of that try to copy WoW. As a follower from the very first week/month PRotF was announced, I have to reiterate what others have said here: This is no longer the game/world I was sold on and, reviewing some of the other changes, that does not appear to be an accident. VR might as well rename the game at this point. If there was an option to delete this account, I would delete it. As there is no better way to express disapproval than with one's dollar, I will move on.
"We expect Pantheon to reach more audiences. We believe the style resonates with more gamers across more demographics bringing more people together into this growing community."
Here is my question, is the artwork the only thing that is changing? Many of us have come from EQ; so we want that slow dungeon crawl, let's camp at this spot for hours on end grind. Are others who don't want that, going to play Pantheon just for the artwork or are the gaming mechanics going to have to change as well?
It may not happen, but the question did pop into my head.
Leevolen said:Where it started: "We're identifying a target audience, and we're going to focus on them and make a really great game for them," McQuaid says. "We're not going to concern ourselves with the fact that there may be other MMO fans who may not like our game."
Where it's at now: "We expect Pantheon to reach more audiences. We believe the style resonates with more gamers across more demographics bringing more people together into this growing community."
A simpler style could have been agreeable to most, I think, if it had retained more elements of the original mature imagery but it is pretty unrecognizable now, closely resembling titles we're all aware of that try to copy WoW. As a follower from the very first week/month it was announced, I have to reiterate what others have said here: This is no longer the game/world I was sold on and, reviewing some of the other changes, that does not appear to be an accident. VR might as well rename the game at this point. If there was an option to delete this account, I would delete it. As there is no better way to express disapproval than with one's dollar, I will move on.
What a perfect quote from Brad to sum this up.
The entire soul of the game has been flipped on its head with this change. Its not just the graphics, its the mission of this game. Its gone now.
VR's handeling of Pantheon the past few years should be studied in business schools as "how to kill a vision though short sighted greed"
Did I just witness an e-tantrum?
It is ironic that OP calls the art work childish when that is exactley how OP is behaving. No one will take you seriously when you behave this way. The nice thing about art is that it is SUBJECTIVE...That means your opinion doesnt matter. =D I kid, I kid...but not really.
The allure of art is that it is interpretive. Since the art style is painted, color pallets become a very big deal. I for one would welcome a grittier color scheme like burnt oranges, maroons and reds mixed with dark browns, blacks and grays.
Another awesome thing about painted 3d styles is that accents can be placed anywhere within the drawing itself.
DOTA and WoW come to mind. I started WOW on launch day. LOATHED the art style in particular. The more I played the game, the less the art mattered. In the end, it was the mechanics and stories that kept me coming back. While I don't prefer the painted style there are definatley some benefits, I've realized over the years that the mechnics of a game are more important anyway.
Selfihsly, I want (we should all want) the game to appeal to as many people as possible. Mass appeal is critical to the games success as well as our ability to enjoy the game. Does Art facilitate better emerssion? without question. But this announcement does not sway my faith in the game itself nor the dev or art teams whatsoever. The game mechanics are why I am here and I sure why many others are too.
orion1080 said:Did I just witness an e-tantrum?
It is ironic that OP calls the art work childish when that is exactley how OP is behaving. No one will take you seriously when you behave this way. The nice thing about art is that it is SUBJECTIVE...That means your opinion doesnt matter. =D I kid, I kid...but not really.
The allure of art is that it is interpretive. Since the art style is painted, color pallets become a very big deal. I for one would welcome a grittier color scheme like burnt oranges, maroons and reds mixed with dark browns, blacks and grays.
Another awesome thing about painted 3d styles is that accents can be placed anywhere within the drawing itself.
DOTA and WoW come to mind. I started WOW on launch day. LOATHED the art style in particular. The more I played the game, the less the art mattered. In the end, it was the mechanics and stories that kept me coming back. While I don't prefer the painted style there are definatley some benefits, I've realized over the years that the mechnics of a game are more important anyway.
Selfihsly, I want (we should all want) the game to appeal to as many people as possible. Mass appeal is critical to the games success as well as our ability to enjoy the game. Does Art facilitate better emerssion? without question. But this announcement does not sway my faith in the game itself nor the dev or art teams whatsoever. The game mechanics are why I am here and I sure why many others are too.
Very much agree with this. Also I like the sound of those color palettes as well.
I'd love to see the dark zones in an almost "Darkest dungeon" color scheme. Maybe not quite that dark for this game, but love their use of color palette.
orion1080 said:Did I just witness an e-tantrum?
It is ironic that OP calls the art work childish when that is exactley how OP is behaving. No one will take you seriously when you behave this way. The nice thing about art is that it is SUBJECTIVE...That means your opinion doesnt matter. =D I kid, I kid...but not really.
The allure of art is that it is interpretive. Since the art style is painted, color pallets become a very big deal. I for one would welcome a grittier color scheme like burnt oranges, maroons and reds mixed with dark browns, blacks and grays.
Another awesome thing about painted 3d styles is that accents can be placed anywhere within the drawing itself.
DOTA and WoW come to mind. I started WOW on launch day. LOATHED the art style in particular. The more I played the game, the less the art mattered. In the end, it was the mechanics and stories that kept me coming back. While I don't prefer the painted style there are definatley some benefits, I've realized over the years that the mechnics of a game are more important anyway.
Selfihsly, I want (we should all want) the game to appeal to as many people as possible. Mass appeal is critical to the games success as well as our ability to enjoy the game. Does Art facilitate better emerssion? without question. But this announcement does not sway my faith in the game itself nor the dev or art teams whatsoever. The game mechanics are why I am here and I sure why many others are too.
Just as art is "subjective", so is my behavior.
I can just as easily say that im being righeously indignant. (and have every right to be at this point).
If your "fiath in the game itself nor the dev or art teams whatsoever" has not been swayed, i would say i envy your ability to see the world with child-like wonder!
Some people will believe Anything. In a very mature, sophisticated way of course.
Leevolen said:Where it started: "We're identifying a target audience, and we're going to focus on them and make a really great game for them," McQuaid says. "We're not going to concern ourselves with the fact that there may be other MMO fans who may not like our game."
This is literally the reason I pledged.
orion1080 said:Selfihsly, I want (we should all want) the game to appeal to as many people as possible. Mass appeal is critical to the games success as well as our ability to enjoy the game. Does Art facilitate better emerssion? without question. But this announcement does not sway my faith in the game itself nor the dev or art teams whatsoever. The game mechanics are why I am here and I sure why many others are too.
I would rather play a niche game that appeals to a lot less people, and have to pay more because of that. I think most of the people that pledged are middle age men that played EQ in high school or college, and now have disposable income. I doubt there are a lot poor people pledging $500 dollars to a video game. I would pay $100 a month to have the game I was promised. I would not give a nickel to what I see now.
Mass appeal is the LAST THING I want. You can find that in WoW. I realize Pantheon needs to make money. But the goal for VR was not to become billion dollar company like Blizzard. The goal was to make a game for a “targeted audience” which we were told was a game being called the “spiritual successor to EverQuest”.
Flintheart said:"We expect Pantheon to reach more audiences. We believe the style resonates with more gamers across more demographics bringing more people together into this growing community."
And suddenly, the shift from the niche community they said they were building the game for, begins.
If they build an amazing game I certainly would love it if TONS of people play it. To me, the art has nothing to do with the game ending up amazing or not. As long as they stick to their tenets (which actually might NOT resonate with more gamers across more demographics) then I'm fine with it. The art style is a perfect place, in my opinion, to try to appeal to more people, since it doesn't effect core gameplay tenets.
Ranarius said:If they build an amazing game I certainly would love it if TONS of people play it. To me, the art has nothing to do with the game ending up amazing or not. As long as they stick to their tenets (which actually might NOT resonate with more gamers across more demographics) them I'm fine with it. The art style is a perfect place, in my opinion, to try to appeal to more people, since it doesn't effect core gameplay tenets.
Art attracts, gameplay keeps. I do wonder if this art change really will speak to a larger audience.