Forums » News and Announcements

Pantheon State of the Game

    • VR Staff
    • 541 posts
    July 18, 2023 9:40 AM PDT

    We are holding a comprehensive State of the Game address this week, on July 20 at 5PM PDT (-7GMT). This address is accessible to VIP and Scion of the Black Rose pledges, the pledge levels with current access to Pre-alpha. This event will be held on Discord and members should note that if you do not have PA Discord access, you cannot participate in the State of the Game.

     

    VIPs may request access here:

    https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3535/vip-discord-server-information

    Scion of the Black Rose pledges may request access here:

    https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/13147/official-discord-champion-approval-thread

    • 3852 posts
    July 19, 2023 7:49 AM PDT

    You say state of the game not state of pre-alpha. Many others will have an interest in that.

    If the address in general is subjected to the non-disclosure agreement, and it may or may not be, please pick out any significant information that you do not feel needs to be kept private for pre-alpha testers only and share that with the rest of us - perhaps by a forum post after the address. I have no problem with people that paid more getting to hear it all first.

    • VR Staff
    • 541 posts
    July 19, 2023 11:45 AM PDT

    We are hitting up VIP and PA-Testers first because this involves test right now. Soon, we will be looping in the public on what is going on with development as we definitely want everyone involved when it's time.

    • 4 posts
    July 19, 2023 4:55 PM PDT

    How soon will this information be made available to the greater majority of us who have collectively pledged greater amounts of money. I understand that we are not the 'greater community' or 'VIP' as you tend to classify the upper eschelon of fans, but it would be nice to see reveals on the state of the game at the same time as everyone else. Those who are not VIP's would appreciate the state of the game more than those that are actively participating in it.

    • VR Staff
    • 541 posts
    July 19, 2023 5:38 PM PDT

    Garthorn said:

    How soon will this information be made available to the greater majority of us who have collectively pledged greater amounts of money. I understand that we are not the 'greater community' or 'VIP' as you tend to classify the upper eschelon of fans, but it would be nice to see reveals on the state of the game at the same time as everyone else. Those who are not VIP's would appreciate the state of the game more than those that are actively participating in it.

     

    Of course! We want to share with everyone as soon as it is feasible. For this round, we are focusing on those who are actively in the PA tests as the changes impact them directly. It is our intention to release info to the public in a couple of months when we are at a more proven state. Basically, testers gotta test so devs can dev. Once everything is nailed down, we will be shouting updates from the rooftops.

    • 902 posts
    July 20, 2023 1:00 AM PDT

    "...changes impact them directly"? Ooo that's ominous!

    • 3852 posts
    July 20, 2023 8:45 AM PDT

    chenzeme - you may be right. The history of development for Pantheon is that large and dramatic changes have had a promised result of a splendidly improved game and the actual result of "back to the drawing board" delays and no game at all. 

    Savanja - before you get too defensive over this comment - I am talking about longer term history not the last year or two where progress has been reasonably steady and reliable. 

    The impactful changes referred to may be different. They may not be. 

    Best case scenario. Due to changes in funding or the underlying game engine things are much better now and testers will need to adjust to better graphics, faster gameplay and innumerable other improvements. 

    Worst case scenario - a change in the basic engine or major pieces of it with enormous improvements promised but great delays certain. 

    Things rarely match either the best possible result or the worst so it almost surely will be in the middle. It is human nature to immediately publicize and tout good things and hold off on releasing information about bad things. To use Savanja's terms - people often find it "feasible" and the state sufficiently "proven" when the trend is upward not downward. Ooh we just got $100 million and a publisher would tend to be mentioned (legal constraints permitting) a whole lot faster than "The developers of our game engine just notified us that they are ceasing development and filing for bankruptcy protection". 

    My best bet is that the changes in the state of the game will not be that dramatic at all.


    This post was edited by dorotea at July 20, 2023 8:57 AM PDT
    • 102 posts
    July 20, 2023 7:55 PM PDT

    All we can do is speculate, or become VIPs!  *checks points reward card*  Not yet!

    • 46 posts
    July 25, 2023 1:30 AM PDT

    Savanja said:

    Garthorn said:

    How soon will this information be made available to the greater majority of us who have collectively pledged greater amounts of money. I understand that we are not the 'greater community' or 'VIP' as you tend to classify the upper eschelon of fans, but it would be nice to see reveals on the state of the game at the same time as everyone else. Those who are not VIP's would appreciate the state of the game more than those that are actively participating in it.

     

    Of course! We want to share with everyone as soon as it is feasible. For this round, we are focusing on those who are actively in the PA tests as the changes impact them directly. It is our intention to release info to the public in a couple of months when we are at a more proven state. Basically, testers gotta test so devs can dev. Once everything is nailed down, we will be shouting updates from the rooftops.

     

    Shouting updates from the rooftops..  Sounds really exciting to me..Cant wait to see what happens come Sept....

    • 8 posts
    July 27, 2023 7:08 AM PDT

    Glad to hear the progress being made. Wish you all the best.


    This post was edited by Lonig at July 27, 2023 7:41 AM PDT
    • 8 posts
    July 27, 2023 1:04 PM PDT

    Not wanting to share usually means they've made some major change that they what to push pass a smaller selection of players that is most likely adverse or determental to what the larger community would agree too.

     

    This games already had multiple delays due to changing the graphics engine, people leaving and new people starting with different visions. Seems like the project is being overly micro managed now so I'm hoping we're closer to 24hrs testing and alpha but have been disappointed over the years of backing this that it wouldnt surprise me if the announcement was "We're not happy with unity" we've moving to unreal now and redoing the enite games and have to redraw all the assets."

     

    Hoping I'm wrong.

     

    • 11 posts
    July 27, 2023 1:45 PM PDT
    Changing the graphics engine likely would have taken place prior to all of the effort put into VINL and HDRP conversion. Both are specific to Unity I believe.
    Speculation on these major and disastrous changes is pointless. This team is the most dedicated team of developers on any project I have followed.
    Pantheon Rise of the Fallen is a gigantic game nearly as large as the title of the game itself :P. But seriously it takes time to build. They are building the game for launch and for the foreseeable future getting the most solid foundation for the best possible result. I truly believe NOTHING will stop this game from being made. The team would probably finish it unpaid at this point. Let’s all be excited for each new development they dangle in front of us. Stay positive and uplifting as a community. I look forward to meeting all of you in game someday. Whenever that may be and when the team decides the game is ready. Thanks for reading this lengthy rant if you made it this far. Message me in game someday and I will assist you on a Corpse Run :)
    • 2126 posts
    July 27, 2023 5:30 PM PDT

    Fizen said: This games already had multiple delays due to changing the graphics engine... 

    Pantheon has had its share of delays and then some, but VR has never changed the graphics engine.

     

    Sonsofsever said: I look forward to meeting all of you in game someday...  Message me in game someday and I will assist you on a Corpse Run :)

    The same for me. Plus, if you don't have a guild crafter available, I'll make ya some cool gear :)


    This post was edited by Jothany at July 27, 2023 5:31 PM PDT
    • 3852 posts
    July 28, 2023 7:31 AM PDT

    "it wouldnt surprise me if the announcement was "We're not happy with unity" we've moving to unreal now and redoing the enite games and have to redraw all the assets.""

     

    Precisely my worst case scenario. Well, worst case other than an outright shut-down. 

    Maybe the big announcement was the 24-hour a day testing, though, which is clearly a step forward not backward. Perhaps unlikely since we didn't have to wait months to hear this but maybe the timing changed.

    • 1404 posts
    July 30, 2023 7:59 PM PDT

    Sonsofsever said:Message me in game someday and I will assist you on a Corpse Run :)

     

    VR has made it pretty clear there won't be a need for assistance on a corpse run, actually with the exception of rare occasion its unlikely a corpse run will even be necessary.

    • 102 posts
    July 31, 2023 4:09 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Sonsofsever said:Message me in game someday and I will assist you on a Corpse Run :)

     

    VR has made it pretty clear there won't be a need for assistance on a corpse run, actually with the exception of rare occasion its unlikely a corpse run will even be necessary.

     

    I must have missed that update...

    • VR Staff
    • 541 posts
    July 31, 2023 10:09 AM PDT

    Fizen said:

    Not wanting to share usually means they've made some major change that they what to push pass a smaller selection of players that is most likely adverse or determental to what the larger community would agree too.

     

    This games already had multiple delays due to changing the graphics engine, people leaving and new people starting with different visions. Seems like the project is being overly micro managed now so I'm hoping we're closer to 24hrs testing and alpha but have been disappointed over the years of backing this that it wouldnt surprise me if the announcement was "We're not happy with unity" we've moving to unreal now and redoing the enite games and have to redraw all the assets."

     

    Hoping I'm wrong.

     

    You are. We are happy with Unity. Non-testers can expect to see some in-depth updates in the next couple of months.

    • 46 posts
    August 1, 2023 10:20 AM PDT

    Sonsofsever said: Changing the graphics engine likely would have taken place prior to all of the effort put into VINL and HDRP conversion. Both are specific to Unity I believe. Speculation on these major and disastrous changes is pointless. This team is the most dedicated team of developers on any project I have followed. Pantheon Rise of the Fallen is a gigantic game nearly as large as the title of the game itself :P. But seriously it takes time to build. They are building the game for launch and for the foreseeable future getting the most solid foundation for the best possible result. I truly believe NOTHING will stop this game from being made. The team would probably finish it unpaid at this point. Let’s all be excited for each new development they dangle in front of us. Stay positive and uplifting as a community. I look forward to meeting all of you in game someday. Whenever that may be and when the team decides the game is ready. Thanks for reading this lengthy rant if you made it this far. Message me in game someday and I will assist you on a Corpse Run :)

     

     

    I Love your optimisum for the Game. I to am excited about the upcomeing 24 hour server testing. 

    • 72 posts
    August 1, 2023 1:22 PM PDT

    I have been curious about the use of and shift to Unity.  From what I understood, unreal Engine is better for large-scale 3D exploration games due to how it handles HD texture downscaling, multiple characters on screen, networking, LoD, and high-scene polygon counts. All the while, Unity is better known for being more proficiant in the creation of 2D and D2/3D hybrid side-scrollers with scene layering and backdrop textures.

    With this in mind, why did VR decide to use Unity over Unreal Engine?

    • 2126 posts
    August 1, 2023 1:37 PM PDT

    Farrinard said: I have been curious about the use of and shift to Unity. 

    VR has used Unity since the beginning. It's been too long since I heard them talk about it for me to say what their reasons were.

    • 72 posts
    August 1, 2023 2:03 PM PDT

    Perhaps it's because the framework is coded in C#.  That's another distinquishing difference between the two platforms.  Unity is written in C# while UE is written in C++.  Maybe the developers are more savvy with C#.  

    • 1404 posts
    August 3, 2023 6:30 AM PDT

    Brutenga said:

    Zorkon said:

    Sonsofsever said:Message me in game someday and I will assist you on a Corpse Run :)

     

    VR has made it pretty clear there won't be a need for assistance on a corpse run, actually with the exception of rare occasion its unlikely a corpse run will even be necessary.

     

    I must have missed that update...

    As it's presently planned, on death players respawn with all equipped gear. So all that's on the corpse is bags and possibly coin. Anyone with half a brain is going to make a bank run before going into any hazardous situation, especially with a pug, and drop off anything of value and carry 3-4 generic throwaway bags, some food and water (if that's even nessasary) so essentially nothing on the corpse worth recovering.

    Now a rare occasion will happen when on a dungeon run a player may get a rare item, this will be the rare occasion where a corpse run would be needed. 

    Any other time it would just be novelty "Ooo I got/get to do a corpse run for my 10gold, 4 cloth bags and partial stacks of food and water."


    This post was edited by Zorkon at August 3, 2023 6:37 AM PDT
    • 3852 posts
    August 3, 2023 7:01 AM PDT

    One of the more contentious issues over the years has been corpse runs and death penalties. How much of a penalty death should entail to give that "old school" flavor without driving away new players in droves and making even dedicated fans reluctant to do any content that isn't considered reasonably safe. 

    I consider corpse runs more of an EQ nostalgia issue rather than *necessary* to make death non-trivial. There are many ways to make death sting while still encouraging players to take risks and join PUGs. 

    I hope VR will have, at a dead minimum, a significant penalty. Even at maximum level. Loss of experience not simply damage to gear requiring some cost to repair. By the time the game is 6 months old any repair cost will doubtlessly be trivial though done well repair cost is good to have in addition to loss of experience. With level-capped characters either losing levels or otherwise hit with a significant penalty.

    I strongly suspect I will be disappointed on this issue.  


    This post was edited by dorotea at August 3, 2023 7:02 AM PDT
    • 1404 posts
    August 3, 2023 9:11 AM PDT

    You're not wrong Dorotea, 
    my issue with it is VR seems unwilling or flat out scared to commit to anything that is actually going to sting.

    token corpse runs (I explained earlier)

    token experience loss(no real loss like potential loss of level)

    token gear damage(a few plat that we won't even notice to repair it)

    I think VR needs to decide if there going to cater to the masses and make just another please everybody hold your hand game or a world as Brad intended. actually I've resolved that they have made their choice.

    • 15 posts
    October 15, 2023 4:33 AM PDT

    All the best MMORPGs with the greatest degree of staying power have corpse runs and gear damage. Experience loss could go either way but today's successful MMOs don't have it.
    In an age where death in Minecraft is a 100% drop of everything and every other title is a roguelike or souls clone, it's clear that people want a challenge.