dorotea said:That was a very specific and detailed comment about camps - thanks.
Back in DAOC (Dark Age of Camelot) players were rather fanatical about camps and the evils of camp stealing. But the game itself and the GMs took exactly the same view. Camps are a player construct and absent a violation of the rules of conduct anyone can pull any mob anywhere.
Watch the last stream it was very good =)... They go there
Nytman said:Kilsin said:Nytman said:Savanja said:Whenever a large group of people converges into a single area, problems are going to arise. This is common in MMORPGs and for the most part, we rely on player social norms to guide etiquette. We don't kill steal, we don't jump camps, and we don't ninja loot. What happens when a player does these things?
What solutions, both the player side and the game side would you suggest? Join the conversation and let us know your thoughts!
Before addressing the complex issue of handling conflicts that arise in MMORPGs when large groups of players converge in a single area, it is crucial to consider a few fundamental questions. These questions help to establish a foundation for understanding the underlying causes of the problems and identifying potential solutions.
- Can a camp be owned?
- Do you own the mobs at that camp?
- Will GMs enforce a policy like this
- Are you saying if I'm at a camp and another group takes a mob in my camp, is that kill stealing?
- How a GM handles a situation.
By addressing these fundamental questions, we can better understand how to approach the challenges that arise in MMORPGs when large groups of players converge in a single area.
To address these issues, game developers need to consider these potential conflicts during the design phase. While it may seem like a simple solution for a GM to declare that no one owns a mob except for the game developer, this could lead to chaos and unfair play. A more effective approach may be establishing guidelines and rules for players to follow, such as a system for determining ownership or killing credit.
Game developers can mitigate these problems by designing areas with player camps in mind. For example, in the case of the Spirit Manor, game designers could create designated areas for multiple groups to camp and engage in combat without interfering with each other. This would give players a sense of ownership over their respective camps and reduce the likelihood of conflicts.
Ultimately, game developers must anticipate potential issues arising from player interactions and design the game accordingly. By doing so, they can create a more enjoyable and fair experience for all players.
Spirit Manor
I believe that the Spirit Manor has untapped potential that could be utilized to create a more immersive experience. Have a group stationed at each step leading into the manor, and a bigger cemetery out back that could accommodate another group. Additionally, it would be interesting to have a basement area for yet another group. The crypt out back could be transformed into a mini-dungeon that leads to the basement through a fake wall that leads into a basement section closed off due to a crumbled wall that could be another group. Designing an area with groups in mind and having more things to do in that area would cause fewer problems because people would go where there are more mobs instead of fighting over a few at the same camp. The only problem with this would be if named mobs always spawned at the same place, but I think VR could spawn named mobs and different areas or have more named mobs with the same loot table.
I wonder whether the issues surrounding player behavior in MMORPGs are rooted in a shift from traditional camp-based leveling systems to quest-based leveling systems. It may be the case that players who are used to camp-based systems, such as those found in EQ, may be more likely to understand and respect the idea of camps and the etiquette that comes with them.
On the other hand, newer players who are more familiar with quest-based leveling systems may not have the same understanding of camps and may be more likely to act in ways that disrupt other players' camps. This highlights a potential disconnect between old and new gamers and the need for clear communication and guidelines regarding player behavior within the game.
It is important to consider the impact of game design on player behavior and to find ways to encourage positive player interactions while minimizing disruptions to the game experience.
- Can a camp be owned? No
- Do you own the mobs at that camp? No
- Will GMs enforce a policy like this - No, we will enforce the guidelines, which include communication and being respectful.
- Are you saying if I'm at a camp and another group takes a mob in my camp, is that kill stealing? No, there's no such thing. You all have equal access to our mobs. If someone more powerful holds a group down, ask to join them or ask to pick some randoms from their pack or ask a friend or guild member to group up to grab some for yourself or leave and come back later. They are just a few options you could choose, but all are to be done within the guidelines and while being respectful.
- How a GM handles a situation. - A GM will try to cool the situation down and remind the parties involved of their options; failing that, they will enforce the guidelines, which may result in a warning, other types of action against the offender's account or a ban.
What option, Kilsin You basically said a group, when they see a mob, can pull it. That means there are no camps you can do whatever you want. A group member can pull a mob there are no camps by what you are saying.
All you have to do is not take someone else's mob because that would be kill stealing.
There is no reason to be upset if someone pulls a mob it is not theirs so we can all go off of that now... Thanks =)
lol, welcome to the wild west everyone =)
How can you steal something that you do not own?
I paid the same subscription as you and have equal access to them but if you're more powerful, I'll try and compete or go elsewhere. It's no big deal. I do not need to swear at you, carry on like a spoilt child having a tantrum and tell the rest of the server what I think of you. I control my actions and how I handle myself.
First and foremost, communicate with the group or person that is holding the camp down and ask to join or how long they'll be. Depending on that answer, you'll be able to make a decision or follow up with more communication, but it can be done respectfully.
Remember, you're speaking to real people behind those characters, treat them with respect and kindness, and you'll find, in most cases, things will work out. If it goes south and they break the rules, report them and move on.
Kilsin said:Nytman said:Kilsin said:Nytman said:Savanja said:Whenever a large group of people converges into a single area, problems are going to arise. This is common in MMORPGs and for the most part, we rely on player social norms to guide etiquette. We don't kill steal, we don't jump camps, and we don't ninja loot. What happens when a player does these things?
What solutions, both the player side and the game side would you suggest? Join the conversation and let us know your thoughts!
Before addressing the complex issue of handling conflicts that arise in MMORPGs when large groups of players converge in a single area, it is crucial to consider a few fundamental questions. These questions help to establish a foundation for understanding the underlying causes of the problems and identifying potential solutions.
- Can a camp be owned?
- Do you own the mobs at that camp?
- Will GMs enforce a policy like this
- Are you saying if I'm at a camp and another group takes a mob in my camp, is that kill stealing?
- How a GM handles a situation.
By addressing these fundamental questions, we can better understand how to approach the challenges that arise in MMORPGs when large groups of players converge in a single area.
To address these issues, game developers need to consider these potential conflicts during the design phase. While it may seem like a simple solution for a GM to declare that no one owns a mob except for the game developer, this could lead to chaos and unfair play. A more effective approach may be establishing guidelines and rules for players to follow, such as a system for determining ownership or killing credit.
Game developers can mitigate these problems by designing areas with player camps in mind. For example, in the case of the Spirit Manor, game designers could create designated areas for multiple groups to camp and engage in combat without interfering with each other. This would give players a sense of ownership over their respective camps and reduce the likelihood of conflicts.
Ultimately, game developers must anticipate potential issues arising from player interactions and design the game accordingly. By doing so, they can create a more enjoyable and fair experience for all players.
Spirit Manor
I believe that the Spirit Manor has untapped potential that could be utilized to create a more immersive experience. Have a group stationed at each step leading into the manor, and a bigger cemetery out back that could accommodate another group. Additionally, it would be interesting to have a basement area for yet another group. The crypt out back could be transformed into a mini-dungeon that leads to the basement through a fake wall that leads into a basement section closed off due to a crumbled wall that could be another group. Designing an area with groups in mind and having more things to do in that area would cause fewer problems because people would go where there are more mobs instead of fighting over a few at the same camp. The only problem with this would be if named mobs always spawned at the same place, but I think VR could spawn named mobs and different areas or have more named mobs with the same loot table.
I wonder whether the issues surrounding player behavior in MMORPGs are rooted in a shift from traditional camp-based leveling systems to quest-based leveling systems. It may be the case that players who are used to camp-based systems, such as those found in EQ, may be more likely to understand and respect the idea of camps and the etiquette that comes with them.
On the other hand, newer players who are more familiar with quest-based leveling systems may not have the same understanding of camps and may be more likely to act in ways that disrupt other players' camps. This highlights a potential disconnect between old and new gamers and the need for clear communication and guidelines regarding player behavior within the game.
It is important to consider the impact of game design on player behavior and to find ways to encourage positive player interactions while minimizing disruptions to the game experience.
- Can a camp be owned? No
- Do you own the mobs at that camp? No
- Will GMs enforce a policy like this - No, we will enforce the guidelines, which include communication and being respectful.
- Are you saying if I'm at a camp and another group takes a mob in my camp, is that kill stealing? No, there's no such thing. You all have equal access to our mobs. If someone more powerful holds a group down, ask to join them or ask to pick some randoms from their pack or ask a friend or guild member to group up to grab some for yourself or leave and come back later. They are just a few options you could choose, but all are to be done within the guidelines and while being respectful.
- How a GM handles a situation. - A GM will try to cool the situation down and remind the parties involved of their options; failing that, they will enforce the guidelines, which may result in a warning, other types of action against the offender's account or a ban.
What option, Kilsin You basically said a group, when they see a mob, can pull it. That means there are no camps you can do whatever you want. A group member can pull a mob there are no camps by what you are saying.
All you have to do is not take someone else's mob because that would be kill stealing.
There is no reason to be upset if someone pulls a mob it is not theirs so we can all go off of that now... Thanks =)
lol, welcome to the wild west everyone =)
How can you steal something that you do not own?
I paid the same subscription as you and have equal access to them but if you're more powerful, I'll try and compete or go elsewhere. It's no big deal. I do not need to swear at you, carry on like a spoilt child having a tantrum and tell the rest of the server what I think of you. I control my actions and how I handle myself.
First and foremost, communicate with the group or person that is holding the camp down and ask to join or how long they'll be. Depending on that answer, you'll be able to make a decision or follow up with more communication, but it can be done respectfully.
Remember, you're speaking to real people behind those characters, treat them with respect and kindness, and you'll find, in most cases, things will work out. If it goes south and they break the rules, report them and move on.
Not really sure, Kilsin, why you are saying that to me because you answered the questions, and I generally do not talk to people in a hostile manner, and you clearly defined how this should work.
I think it will be a sh!t show; that's why I called it the wild west... but I am more than ok with how you stated it should be. I just think everyone else needs to hear the answers you gave and be able to deal with them.
I understand this is not EQ but camps were a thing and generally respected by the player base. Scenario: a named mob drops an item in lower guk... sO the way you state it, no one owns that mob, so two groups could be there; how can anyone be wrong or right about going after that mob. As you state, no one owns the mob.
When did I mention anything about swearing at someone? You must have me confused with someone else.... Im not sure if you are trying to intimidate me, but you don't, I'm fine with everything you are saying. I do believe that this needs to be more widely known, and people would not have a hard time with this. I would imagine a lot of your player base coming from EQ where camps were a thing is why this is an issue as a community; we need to tell people what you are saying, and there might be less hostility or maybe more; who knows.
Maybe I am just reading into your words as a little hostile towards me I could be wrong. I will tell you this though you are one of the reasons I want to play a rogue; in the beginning days, you seemed really happy and loved the rogue, and I liked you all the way back then. I asked questions you answered them Im good with it because everyone else has to play the same way. I disagree about the camps thing because I played EQ, but I am more than happy to play the game the way you stated if that is how it is supposed to be =).
If you are unhappy about something and need to talk, some people find it easier to talk to a stranger, so I would be happy to listen to you kilsin anytime =). I think you are a good guy not sure if I offended you or not. I apologize if I did....
Nytman. The error in your reasoning is reductio ad absurdum. That's why it's being countered here. If you consider the game world as public space than the reasonable step is to apply fair use doctrines. Please see as example for a well written document - https://www.mass.gov/doc/302-cmr-1200-parks-and-recreation-rules/download&ved=2ahUKEwi93tj35ML-AhVaF1kFHZnwAs8QFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ZXKMjq16M4sCgLM6142D6
12.16 has some rule and regulations for conduct on public pool grounds. This is a short section and clear.
The steps that civil bodies have gone through to avoid the reasoning of "unless otherwise stated I can do whatever I want" is significant.
We are not looking to argue against the ridiculous reasoning to the absurd.
We want to discuss how to push/prod/encourage players to behave in a way that maximizes the greatest amount of joy and satisfaction during their game sessions.
So, carrot or stick recommendations please, got any ideas?
It's a pretty massive change from when VR/Joppa said this: https://youtu.be/DT6PVU95H48?t=2402 ; . Though I know Kilsin was a big fan of free for all/might makes right in the earlier part of that discussion so I'd guess his voice won out in the end or they collectively decided it would be too hard to handle with a small team.
In the real world pushing others out of your way to take what you want is considered disrespectful (to put it lightly). I don't agree with the idea that somehow video game world (PvE ruleset especially) makes it okay.
StoneFish said:Nytman. The error in your reasoning is reductio ad absurdum. That's why it's being countered here. If you consider the game world as public space than the reasonable step is to apply fair use doctrines. Please see as example for a well written document - https://www.mass.gov/doc/302-cmr-1200-parks-and-recreation-rules/download&ved=2ahUKEwi93tj35ML-AhVaF1kFHZnwAs8QFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0ZXKMjq16M4sCgLM6142D6
12.16 has some rule and regulations for conduct on public pool grounds. This is a short section and clear.
The steps that civil bodies have gone through to avoid the reasoning of "unless otherwise stated I can do whatever I want" is significant.
We are not looking to argue against the ridiculous reasoning to the absurd.
We want to discuss how to push/prod/encourage players to behave in a way that maximizes the greatest amount of joy and satisfaction during their game sessions.
So, carrot or stick recommendations please, got any ideas?
I am not arguing for or against... I am saying this problem might be from EQ and how it was then to how Games are now. I think that this is not widely known, and everyone needs to be on the same page and have the facts. Hopefully, everyone will know that camps are not a thing, and that will bring less hostility toward the situation when it arises.
@StoneFish, watch the video below from Iksar... I can only assume you are making fun of me in some way when I am just trying to get the facts on how VR wants things to be... Then when we know how things should be we can all play the game with that understanding.
Iksar said:It's a pretty massive change from when VR/Joppa said this: https://youtu.be/DT6PVU95H48?t=2402 ; . Though I know Kilsin was a big fan of free for all/might makes right in the earlier part of that discussion so I'd guess his voice won out in the end or they collectively decided it would be too hard to handle with a small team.
In the real world pushing others out of your way to take what you want is considered disrespectful (to put it lightly). I don't agree with the idea that somehow video game world (PvE ruleset especially) makes it okay.
Thank you Iksar, I have been trying to find that clip since I saw this post. Now we can address If Kilsin is correct in what he is saying and things have changed which again I am fine with or are they like what Joppa is saying.
OK. I don't want to insult or 'make fun of' anyone. I don't want to argue about wether "camps" are a thing. Camps are a thing. Kilsin said NO, to owning a camp. Joppa spoke in that clip that to hold "camp" for 24 or 48 hours is ridiculous. He was speaking to PvE there. Your position of camps not existing is invalid. The discussion is about behavior in an open world and the general conduct desired. Kilsin was attempting to make clear the position of VR based on guidelines. But it's also assumed that the parties involved will be clicking on an AGREE button on a document stating the guidelines. You reasoned that because one could not OWN a camp then the idea of a camp is invalid, this is an error in comprehension. It is also an understandable error, no worries there.
So to redirect this, let's play a game with a hypothetical:. , How would any of you deal with a situation where a guild made up 150 players, is camped in an area with a desired limited spawn resource node, and that guild has the time and manpower to effectively corner the market on that resource. The guilds has been there for 48 hours and will pull a train on anyone that tries to harvest a node they want? Is there going to be a rule or guideline you can point to? Can you report them for anything? What rule are they breaking if any? But also, why would that guild think it was a fair and proper thing to do? This isn't a laise a faire capitalism simulation game after all. Although I may have just given Draq a bad idea, so keep an eye on that guy. Again, anyone, no insult intended, but I'll continue to point out logical fallacies if I see them. And if I make them please point them out to me, I'm a idiot sometimes, well lots of times.
Edit: (I confused Draq and Desryn) I'll punish myself for the error, no cookies for me tonight.
Iksar said:I mean I am certainly not fine with a might makes right FFA nightmare for PvE servers. What a massive letdown this will be for me if that really is the direction here.
I understand completely, I came from EQ, but I do think it's important to understand what the VR expects so we can have the right conversations.
StoneFish said:So to redirect this, let's play a game with a hypothetical:. , How would any of you deal with a situation where a guild made up 150 players, is camped in an area with a desired limited spawn resource node, and that guild has the time and manpower to effectively corner the market on that resource. The guilds has been there for 48 hours and will pull a train on anyone that tries to harvest a node they want? Is there going to be a rule or guideline you can point to? Can you report them for anything? What rule are they breaking if any? But also, why would that guild think it was a fair and proper thing to do? This isn't a laise a faire capitalism simulation game after all. Although I may have just given Desryn a bad idea, so keep an eye on that guy. Again, anyone, no insult intended, but I'll continue to point out logical fallacies if I see them. And if I make them please point them out to me, I'm a idiot sometimes, well lots of times.
I'd point toward poor design of the dev team.
StoneFish said:So to redirect this, let's play a game with a hypothetical:. , How would any of you deal with a situation where a guild made up 150 players, is camped in an area with a desired limited spawn resource node, and that guild has the time and manpower to effectively corner the market on that resource. The guilds has been there for 48 hours and will pull a train on anyone that tries to harvest a node they want?
Let's assume I attempt to talk to the guild and ask them if I can have a turn and their answer is "no" (because obviously they won't want me to end up with the resource after all the hard work they've put in). At that point I would move on to a different part of the world. I'm assuming that in a game like this with a world as big as it's going to be that I'll always have multiple options of things I can go do. If the thing at the top of my list (that special resource) is not available to me during a gaming session then I choose something else on my list of things to do and try again another day.
Same thing I'd do if I went to the grocery store looking for a Pepsi and found out that the line was 150 people long. It's not my turn yet, so I can either wait in line or go do something else and check to see if the line is shorter (or gone) at another time.
Ranarius said:StoneFish said:So to redirect this, let's play a game with a hypothetical:. , How would any of you deal with a situation where a guild made up 150 players, is camped in an area with a desired limited spawn resource node, and that guild has the time and manpower to effectively corner the market on that resource. The guilds has been there for 48 hours and will pull a train on anyone that tries to harvest a node they want?
Let's assume I attempt to talk to the guild and ask them if I can have a turn and their answer is "no" (because obviously they won't want me to end up with the resource after all the hard work they've put in). At that point I would move on to a different part of the world. I'm assuming that in a game like this with a world as big as it's going to be that I'll always have multiple options of things I can go do. If the thing at the top of my list (that special resource) is not available to me during a gaming session then I choose something else on my list of things to do and try again another day.
Same thing I'd do if I went to the grocery store looking for a Pepsi and found out that the line was 150 people long. It's not my turn yet, so I can either wait in line or go do something else and check to see if the line is shorter (or gone) at another time.
I would hazard to say that for most people, they wont think about all the things they could be doing but rather will focus exclusively on the thing they want to do right at that moment.
This 'policy' for lack of a better word, is going to lead to an unending amount of hilarity. The forums will be flooded with apoplectic players whining profusely about this and I, for one, cannot wait to see the response. The tears will flow.
Iksar said:StoneFish said:So to redirect this, let's play a game with a hypothetical:. , How would any of you deal with a situation where a guild made up 150 players, is camped in an area with a desired limited spawn resource node, and that guild has the time and manpower to effectively corner the market on that resource. The guilds has been there for 48 hours and will pull a train on anyone that tries to harvest a node they want? Is there going to be a rule or guideline you can point to? Can you report them for anything? What rule are they breaking if any? But also, why would that guild think it was a fair and proper thing to do? This isn't a laise a faire capitalism simulation game after all. Although I may have just given Desryn a bad idea, so keep an eye on that guy. Again, anyone, no insult intended, but I'll continue to point out logical fallacies if I see them. And if I make them please point them out to me, I'm a idiot sometimes, well lots of times.
I'd point toward poor design of the dev team.
That's why I put what to do at the Spirit Manor place the streamers went to if there are camps or more places to have a group; that means more mobs and VR could have different named spawns randomly at different spots or different names with the same loot table to even it out so one place is not more desirable than another.... If when the game was in design, and they had more places to support camps or more people this might be less of an issue.
Vandraad said:Ranarius said:StoneFish said:So to redirect this, let's play a game with a hypothetical:. , How would any of you deal with a situation where a guild made up 150 players, is camped in an area with a desired limited spawn resource node, and that guild has the time and manpower to effectively corner the market on that resource. The guilds has been there for 48 hours and will pull a train on anyone that tries to harvest a node they want?
Let's assume I attempt to talk to the guild and ask them if I can have a turn and their answer is "no" (because obviously they won't want me to end up with the resource after all the hard work they've put in). At that point I would move on to a different part of the world. I'm assuming that in a game like this with a world as big as it's going to be that I'll always have multiple options of things I can go do. If the thing at the top of my list (that special resource) is not available to me during a gaming session then I choose something else on my list of things to do and try again another day.
Same thing I'd do if I went to the grocery store looking for a Pepsi and found out that the line was 150 people long. It's not my turn yet, so I can either wait in line or go do something else and check to see if the line is shorter (or gone) at another time.
I would hazard to say that for most people, they wont think about all the things they could be doing but rather will focus exclusively on the thing they want to do right at that moment.
This 'policy' for lack of a better word, is going to lead to an unending amount of hilarity. The forums will be flooded with apoplectic players whining profusely about this and I, for one, cannot wait to see the response. The tears will flow.
Im trying to help VR so it doesn't come to that...
I said in my post previously to train GMs, meaning not have them say something that is out of line with what VR is saying...
So let's take Kilsin, for example, and what he stated... If that is VR stance, then that's great, but everyone needs to know that and have the same expectations. If what Kilsin said is wrong and what Joppa ways saying in the video clip is right now, there would be more of an issue if the game was live and the forums tears would flow.
Because Im an EQ person, I believe in camps, but if what Kilsin is saying is the way it is, then that's the way it is... I just think we need the correct info, and then we can have better discussions about all this.
All good, I love it. VR could change the node spawn area. They could point out that the guidelines include an exploitation entry and this falls within that area. The players could just go do other things. I'm glad to see that it would also be entertaining to some to witness the chaos to follow, always a valid option.
Any idea if this is the type of behavior that would cause players to cancel a subscription and find other things to occupy their time and money?
It might be difficult to reach that area and if I spent an hour to get there just to have to turn around and spend another returning to safe harbors I could see logging off and going to bed sour. I'm not too concerned with if it's fair or not as I am about having terminus populated and thriving. Sure, you can't please everyone but let's not abandon the pursuit of creating a fun game for as many people as can be reasonably achieved, without violating the tenants of what VR hopes to achieve, success. We all want this to be successful.
StoneFish said:It might be difficult to reach that area and if I spent an hour to get there just to have to turn around and spend another returning to safe harbors I could see logging off and going to bed sour.
That is a good point, what is the equivalent of calling the store ahead of time to see if they're open in a game? In another game I used to play I'd send a tell to someone in that zone and ask what the status was. That would save me a long journey depending on the response I get.
Ranarius said:StoneFish said:It might be difficult to reach that area and if I spent an hour to get there just to have to turn around and spend another returning to safe harbors I could see logging off and going to bed sour.That is a good point, what is the equivalent of calling the store ahead of time to see if they're open in a game? In another game I used to play I'd send a tell to someone in that zone and ask what the status was. That would save me a long journey depending on the response I get.
Don't forget the camp check.... In EQ you would call out in a dungeon for a camp check and then if the camp you wanted to go to isn't taken then you would call it and go there. I think there are things that can be done to help.
StoneFish said: ...So to redirect this, let's play a game with a hypothetical:. , How would any of you deal with a situation where a guild made up 150 players, is camped in an area with a desired limited spawn resource node, and that guild has the time and manpower to effectively corner the market on that resource. The guilds has been there for 48 hours and will pull a train on anyone that tries to harvest a node they want? Is there going to be a rule or guideline you can point to? Can you report them for anything? What rule are they breaking if any? But also, why would that guild think it was a fair and proper thing to do? This isn't a laise a faire capitalism simulation game after all. ...
IMO:
What you've described is the expected normal behavior in any modern MMO that permits it. 150+ player guilds playing the game the way the game permits. Ideally, they would maintain control of all limited resources indefinitely, because the game permits it. That's how guilds participate in competitive PvE.
Based on what Kilsin said earlier in the thread, this is how I would respond to each of your questions:
Is there going to be a rule or guideline you can point to? - No, they're not breaking any rules or guidelines.
Can you report them for anything? - No, they're not breaking any rules or guidelines.
What rule are they breaking if any? - None.
But also, why would that guild think it was a fair and proper thing to do? - Why? Because the game permits it.
And as far as the setting of them training anyone trying to harvest; If training is permitted, that is, if the game permits one player to train another, then players will train other players continuously. The game permits it, they will do it. Has always been true, will always be true. Has been true on every EQ1 TLP server I've played on, and I see no reason why that would change for Pantheon.
I'm with Vandraad on this one. It's gonna be hilarious. :)
The only way to stop humans from being humans is to limit the actions they can perform. That's why so many modern MMOs don't have training, kill stealing, camps, ninja looting, or anything remotely similar. They removed those mechanics and replaced them with mechanics that don't permit negative social interactions.
So where would the casual gamer land in terminus? I assume the casual gamer will make up a percentage of the community and their coin has just as much shine as any other players. Is this an environment where they will want to return? This may be the type of thing that pushes a reconsideration of server decorum variants. We know the probability of a RP server is likely, should an RP server have a more rigid code of conduct? Or should a sever with a code of conduct more attuned towards anything goes. If a guild can achieve any monopoly upon real estate, resources or quests then that guild can use its conquest for gain. Charge a fee for entry to dungeons, charge a fee for passage through the mountains, raise or tank the cost of a crafting resource to fill their coffers. All wonderful options if you assume you'll be on the side of the powerhouses. How many people want to pay a monthly fee for that world, when it so closely resembles the real one, only without goblins and talking lizard people lacking lips.
Ranarius said:No one ever said camps don't exist. They said to be respectful to each other. If players want to name camps to make communication easier I'm sure that'll happen.
The 'Spirit Manor' as many are calling it isn't a singular camp but a PoI that can support >1 group. So while people may communally agree that this PoI can, routinely, support 4 groups with the groups taking up some usual positions, that does not stop another (perhaps stronger) group from coming in and setting up shop anywhere they wish to pull things that the other groups believe should be theirs. Thus the PoI exists but the camps at the PoI do not.