Hello,
do not forget people like me that get lost in a one way. We may not be very common, but we exist. That being said, I am mostly not lost anymore in Thronefast although I reckon that I probably almost never take the best route (and my group had to wait several times for me to arrive after death, but that is another question).
In the absolute, I wouldn't mind something akin to what would happen in real life: You come to a new zone, you go to the nearest settlement and go buy a very basic map. It just tells you what the locals most probably know. This and that road goes back to thronefast, there is a settlement to the east, there is a place where people never come back from (at least alive), there is a waterfall, a sacred tree, a hunting area may be.
This can even be handled with some sort of Fog of war system where the local would may be add some info on your map if you pay him some coin.
No GPS showing yourself on the map. Just a paper map (which means that you would need to get it out of your bag)... And then quests may be with the NPC putting a mark on your map telling you to go to this place (which doesn't need to be very precise. See it as an incentive to go explore). And the possibility for each to mark his own map.
And then, something I kinda liked in Red Dea Redemption, is those treasure/quest maps that are actually just an image with three trees and some crude X that says "here is the treasure of ANVIL the ogrrre hidden"... (forgetting to tell people that Anvil is actually not dead at all).
I think that way is stays somewhat immersive. You do not hold people by their hand, and still tickle the sense of exploration instead of being completely frustrating. I can predict right away that if the game stays that way, people will get lost with lost corpses and quit... more often than a niche game like that can absorb.
Fundamentally, we may or may not want maps, but then you may or may not use them even if they exist. Nobody forcing you. What is really important is that a new player stays in the game. We know maps will exist, thus make it so that I won't feel the need (or rarely so) to go look up maps outside of the game. Let me stay in game.
@Chenzeme,
"I hate the argument: "no one is forcing you to..." , this always fails to acknowledge that if a system is coded and you choose not use it, you inevitably put yourself at a disadvantage to others. So in effect, you do get forced to use it. Because, if you don't and it affects others (such as group players) then you will get kicked. Not using something = no group"
Although I get your point, this problem would exist if the "system code" provides a feature or if players have to rely on "3rd party code". One could argue that relying on 3rd party code further disadvantages players that don't want to be "forced" to (or maybe not even have access to) use a 3rd party application.
I personally prefer the argument of "no one is forcing you to... use a feature that you CAN turn on if actually requested to" over the argument of "in order to play this game with us, you have to use this feature... that isn't native the game at all = no group."
Thing is, with a fog of war type map you can see where you are the first time you visit a location (because the map just cleared) but not in subsequent visits. Thats kind of backward immersionwise.
"Thing is, with a fog of war type map you can see where you are the first time you visit a location (because the map just cleared) but not in subsequent visits. Thats kind of backward immersionwise."
Yea I don't see any sense in the map being "Fog of War". First off, it's a ridiculous name, and then it's a lot of programming to accomplish nothing (the fog of war part) if VR thinks we need a map the just give us a map. loose the FoW part, heck we already have Shalazam, that's 10 times what the developers are offering and without the foolish 'Frog of War" nonsense.
" I hate the argument: "no one is forcing you to..." , this always fails to acknowledge that if a system is coded and you choose not use it, you inevitably put yourself at a disadvantage to others. So in effect, you do get forced to use it. Because, if you don't and it affects others (such as group players) then you will get kicked. Not using something = no group.
There will be rough maps and quest maps, this has been stated by VR. For me, this is enough. "
The Actual FACT that this is the slide toward the "EQ2MAP" and the dissolution of interest in exploring the world in in favor of supporting the ADHD's of the world (who will never pay a sub in real life beyond the purchase price) who say
"NOT GETTING LOST IS NOT A CHALLENGE, BUT I NEED A MAP" (lol@yous)
"IT'S TOO DARK OUTSIDE! (ALSO I'VE NEVER BEEN OUTSIDE WITHOUT STREETLIGHTS!)"
This is getting grosser everyday. I've defended Pantheon all over the internet, for years, but the turns are disconcerting to say the least. That patch right before EA (the one the kids hated) gives me hope, but right now Sad Brad fan is sad.