Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Latest Stream Mez Graphics

    • 185 posts
    January 2, 2023 4:05 PM PST

    So i remember back in past streams when the Mez graphic was a shimmering orb that appeared in front of the mobs face and mezmerized it with its beauty etc.

    Now its changed to a ghostly hand and pocket watch like a hypnosis effect.

    Gotta say i liked the old style a lot more.

    The new "hand and watch" seems very cartoonish and overly self explanatory to me.

    I can see why its beind done that way, but i think every player would understand and recognize the old Mez effect for what it is after a very short time of playing.

    (seems like hand holding)

    Simply put i think it distracts from the realism of the game to put these kind of overly done spell effects in rather than simple end elegant effects. 

    • 2001 posts
    January 2, 2023 6:43 PM PST

    While I don't mind the symbolism of the 'hand&watch' graphic, I have wondered how cluttered it will make my screen when numerous adds are all mezzed at the same time when we fight larger groups of enemies.

    Try as I might, I can't remember the older graphic you mention. Can you direct me to an old stream that you know has it?

    • 185 posts
    January 2, 2023 8:28 PM PST

    Jothany said:

    While I don't mind the symbolism of the 'hand&watch' graphic, I have wondered how cluttered it will make my screen when numerous adds are all mezzed at the same time when we fight larger groups of enemies.

    Try as I might, I can't remember the older graphic you mention. Can you direct me to an old stream that you know has it?

     

    Hey, check this gameplay video out, at exactly the 1:00:23 mark they mez one of the mobs and you see the spell effect.

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQXvhA95oQ&t=3623s

     

    To me that looks so much more "realistically magical" than a ghost hand waving a clock.

    Like you said, in large encounters, there will be so many spell effects going off all over the place, unless each one is kept relatively simple, im afraid it will just be a jumbled mess.

    • 724 posts
    January 3, 2023 12:38 AM PST

    I have to disagree, having played an enchanter before I like the very clear and visible "mezed" graphic with the pendulum (I could agree with it being made a little bit smaller though). That light effect from the older stream is far more likely to be overlooked and get lost among other spell effects.

    • 560 posts
    January 3, 2023 8:42 AM PST

    It is not a deal breaker for me but I agree it seems out of place with the rest of the feel of Pantheon. Making it smaller would help. The old graphic seems like it would be fine. In that video it showed the mob looking around and the graphic stayed in front of its face. That looked a little silly. I guess I would expect a mezzed mob to look more aspleep not shacking its head to clear it :)

     

     

    ....

    In a small prostest against these forums I did not spell check this post

    • 393 posts
    January 3, 2023 12:36 PM PST

    I actually favor the pink swirly in front of the face.

    I can clearly see the mezzed mob has left combat as his animations have stopped and he's just passively standing there. Looking around all dazed.

    I also favor the color. Currently, the hypnotic pocket watch is too bright and glaring. It stands out too much and overpowers the more subtle spell effects from other players, mobs, etc.

    My 2cp.

    • 2752 posts
    January 3, 2023 12:50 PM PST

    I much prefer the clarity of the pendulum than the spell effect noise the old one was. Could be a little smaller but otherwise I see it as an improvement.

     

     

    • 2001 posts
    January 3, 2023 1:20 PM PST

    lotuss79 said: Hey, check this gameplay video out...

    Thanks, that graphic was familiar once I watched it, but I'd never have remembered it without the vid.

    So....now I'm pretty much in the middle on this issue and agreeing with Iksar. I agree with Sarim that "That light effect from the older stream is far more likely to be overlooked and get lost among other spell effects." But I still think that multiple adds mezzed with the current 'hand&watch' graphic will cause a jumbled mess on my screen.

    IMO the watch will definitely be more identifiable than the swirly light graphic. So my personal preference at this point would be to have the swinging watch - without the hand - shrunk down to about the size and position of the old graphic. I think that will be much less confusing in a cloud of light effects, while still being clearly identifiable as a mez. (Which is extremely important since we don't want to break it.)

     

     


    This post was edited by Jothany at January 3, 2023 1:23 PM PST
    • 72 posts
    January 3, 2023 2:01 PM PST

    I like the thought of where the designer was going with the Mez effect but I would like to see the spell effect reduced in size and also placed directly above the mob that is mezzed for easier identification, especially if there are alot of mobs all bunched together being mezzed.  I get that the intent is like a hypnotist swing the pocket watch in front of the mob's face, but for player POV, it would be better floating directly over the mob and not in front of face looming so large.

    Its a clever graphic so I hope it stays close to its image. 

    • 2756 posts
    January 9, 2023 2:11 PM PST

    I don't like it.

    As mentioned above, it seems cartoony and to 'on the nose' to me.

    Also too much of a real world pop culture thing. Is hypnosis with a pocket watch really a 'thing' in a largely fantasy-medieval setting like Terminus?

    In fact, even if using a pop culture thing were a good idea, it's also a dated one. I can see young players not knowing what the heck a clock is dangling in front of a mesmerised creature for. To them it's weird for a different reason, but still weird.

    I would prefer to see something more abstract and 'fantasy' themed.

    To be fair I think it is well executed and animated and may be a 'technical' or 'functional' improvement on the old, but, as I say, just feels essentially 'wrong' or 'off' to me lore/theme-wise.

    No more appropriate than a shock spell having an animation of a frayed extension cord whip or a fire spell seeing a ghostly bar heater thrown at the target.


    This post was edited by disposalist at January 9, 2023 2:17 PM PST
    • 54 posts
    January 10, 2023 4:39 PM PST

    I don't particularly love it.  I could live with it, although I liked the idea of it being a bit smaller.  Just don't change it so that it's even easier to track mezed mobs.  I want a decent skill level required to have a coordinated group.

    • 245 posts
    January 11, 2023 6:23 AM PST

    I would like to see something more like the linked previous mez effect

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQXvhA95oQ&t=3623s

     

    But, I'd like to see the effect start off as a swirling blue light which changes over time to purple and then to red as the effect runs out.

    For example 32secs-20s blue / 20s-8s purple / 8s-0s red. 

     

    It reminds me a little of SG-1 The Light https://youtu.be/l9ILHJfcYDQ?t=13


    This post was edited by Ezrael at January 11, 2023 6:33 AM PST
    • 150 posts
    January 11, 2023 6:55 AM PST

    lotuss79 said:

    So i remember back in past streams when the Mez graphic was a shimmering orb that appeared in front of the mobs face and mezmerized it with its beauty etc.

    Now its changed to a ghostly hand and pocket watch like a hypnosis effect.

    Gotta say i liked the old style a lot more.



    Have to agree with this. Even searching google images for "brain fog" and the like results in a lot of depictions that resemble the original cloudy orb effect. Still, if wanting to add more creative touches to it, all mind-altering spells/songs could instead give off an aura, each distinguished by color and, to a greater extent, pattern. 


    This post was edited by Leevolen at January 11, 2023 7:01 AM PST
    • 2138 posts
    January 12, 2023 11:33 AM PST

    brain fog to pendulum would be a nice visual queue to when mez is wearing off to non-mezzer types, especially in a "oops" pull, multi-mob situation. Once you see the pendulum clock you know mez will fade soon-ish.

    • 888 posts
    January 12, 2023 5:58 PM PST

    I would also prefer a different, more lore-appropriate, visual effect.  I really like how distinct and clear the current visual is and hope any replacement keeps these aspects. 

    My suggestions 

    1. Replace the stopwatch with a swinging, multi-colored light orb and the chain with a thin band of the same multi-colored light. When the spell ends, the orb pops with a distinct sound and visual.
    2. Have a series of short animations that are obvious (like looking up and waving arms, rave-style). Have the animations chosen at random per mob so that AoE mez doesn't cause all mobs to engage in the same animation loop in sync.
    • 337 posts
    January 14, 2023 11:44 AM PST

    I like the stopwatch.  End of conversation.  Savanja, you can close down this thread now :)

    • 316 posts
    January 23, 2023 4:07 PM PST
    Totally agree, and spell effects should be very carefully considered. Magic should not really have these representational symbols like a hand and watch - why would a mage do that? A glowing, enchanting orb is far more realistic if magic is real. Keeping the spell animations and graphics is enormously important to me, and if things look cheesy I won't have much desire to advance.
    • 392 posts
    January 24, 2023 9:37 AM PST

    I dont see any problems with the pocket watch for the Enc, interested to see what other classes get though.

    • 2752 posts
    January 24, 2023 11:52 AM PST

    "Realistic" is a pretty wild claim to me given magic but especially mind magic. "Realistically" I don't imagine we'd see any sort of persistent effect for something going on in a creatures mind. 

     

    Much prefer gameplay/information clarity over "realism" for important things like this. 

    • 2419 posts
    January 24, 2023 2:34 PM PST

    Gintoki88 said:

    I dont see any problems with the pocket watch for the Enc, interested to see what other classes get though.

    They could change it so instead of a pocket watch it is a sun dial.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at January 24, 2023 2:34 PM PST
    • 150 posts
    January 24, 2023 7:34 PM PST

    Thinking about it more, the issue isn't so much realism but symbolism. What's displayed is an obvious indicator, not all that different from the question mark hovering over the heads of NPCs. Something that grabs the attention of the player, when it could instead require that they look closer and try to interpret what's being shown. One defining feature of this game is the perception system as well as situational awareness (ex.: the boss fight where surrounding pillars would have blocked AE damage, had players positioned themselves behind or on top of them). A spell effect that is immediately recognizable seems to directly conflict with that.

    • 316 posts
    January 25, 2023 1:49 AM PST

    Iksar said:

    "Realistic" is a pretty wild claim to me given magic but especially mind magic. "Realistically" I don't imagine we'd see any sort of persistent effect for something going on in a creatures mind. 

     

    Much prefer gameplay/information clarity over "realism" for important things like this. 

    It's wild to think of magic portrayed realistically? Nay, it's easy. Just look at the world that's already been built, and we have a capacity to imagine how spells might look given that world. Maybe you don't see any difference in high-fantasy realism between a bright mystical orb and a hand swaying a hypnotist's stopwatch, but I'd bet most people would. And mind magic doesn't at all have to be solely within the mind, a dazzling arcane vision seems like a very appropriate way for a Terminus mage to affect a target's mind.

    The hypnotist's watch is sillier, and while it might be marginally easier to tell what's mezzed at quick glance, a bright orb should be as effective. In any case, players would learn it almost immediately. And don't we want a game requiring us to pay ever-so-slightly closer attention anyway, as the poster above me commented? We could have that and a more lore-friendly spell visual, which would make people who value immersion in the fantasy world (the "cool" factor) like me much happier. And the bright mystical orb in front of the enemy's face is a very clear (and cool) mez-indicator.

    And it goes without saying that VR is very valued for the awesome work you all have already done!


    This post was edited by Alexander at January 25, 2023 2:37 AM PST
    • 2752 posts
    January 25, 2023 1:01 PM PST

    Alexander said:

    It's wild to think of magic portrayed realistically? Nay, it's easy. Just look at the world that's already been built, and we have a capacity to imagine how spells might look given that world. Maybe you don't see any difference in high-fantasy realism between a bright mystical orb and a hand swaying a hypnotist's stopwatch, but I'd bet most people would. And mind magic doesn't at all have to be solely within the mind, a dazzling arcane vision seems like a very appropriate way for a Terminus mage to affect a target's mind.

    The hypnotist's watch is sillier, and while it might be marginally easier to tell what's mezzed at quick glance, a bright orb should be as effective. In any case, players would learn it almost immediately. And don't we want a game requiring us to pay ever-so-slightly closer attention anyway, as the poster above me commented? We could have that and a more lore-friendly spell visual, which would make people who value immersion in the fantasy world (the "cool" factor) like me much happier. And the bright mystical orb in front of the enemy's face is a very clear (and cool) mez-indicator.

    And it goes without saying that VR is very valued for the awesome work you all have already done!

    But we aren't talking realism which is what makes it wild to claim any one representation is more or less "real," it is all just subjective art preference in fantasy. Magic can show up as dazzling or be entirely invisible. As it is all personal preference - to me mind magic would be more or less entirely unnoticed/have no spell effect if I were to imagine "realistic" magic. Most of the aims of it seem entirely focused on subtlety with targets and those around them being otherwise unaware of what is happening as the enchanter enchants/lulls/dulls/deceives their senses and invades their minds. But since this is a video game it needs something visual for clarity so players can know what is happening. 

     

    If the watch face were replaced with a dazzling orb swaying in the same pendular movement would that change how "silly" or "realistic" you'd believe it to be? A simple orb hovering in front of the face seems to me like it would be much more easily lost in the noise of battle and from some angles would be much harder if not impossible to notice. 

    • 72 posts
    January 29, 2023 11:04 PM PST

    I like the pocket watch graphic but its too big and should be above the mob mezzednot in front of it. I know that in front is more what the representation wants to be but in a group of mobs all clustered together it will had to see when its just in front of the face of the mob.  Easier for players to see it if above the mob's head