What are your preferences for normal named mob loot tables (essentially named mobs that aren't main/raid bosses)?
Do you like when named mobs have small loot tables of 2-3 items or larger ones of 4+ items?
Would you want similar mobs to have shared loot tables with maybe only visual differences? Ex. in one zone/continent there's a lvl 15 named red ant that drops a red chitin breastplate and another zone has a lvl 15ish named green ant where the same breastplate drops but in green. Another example could be with two different similar named spiders that drop daggers with the same stats but one looks like an icepick and one has a slightly curved blade.
Is it better to just have shared loot tables and have the items exactly alike instead? Or not shared at all?
Would you like certain drops to change who they drop from after a certain amount of time? So you got these cool boots from Fashionable Raider but a month later he no longer has been dropping them. However, someone else reports finding it on Classy Raider in a completely different camp that's similar level. This might keep peope constantly exploring, even on their alts, instead of having set camps and leveling routes.
Should all or most named mobs have one ultra rare drop that is almost mythical in nature? You wouldn't even believe it was a drop if someone didn't link it because you've killed that mob 100+ times type of rarity.
I'm hoping to see many different named mobs all over the place. Loot is something we always get excited about when encountering a named mob. What are your expectations and hopes?
Feastycentral said:What are your preferences for normal named mob loot tables (essentially named mobs that aren't main/raid bosses)?
Do you like when named mobs have small loot tables of 2-3 items or larger ones of 4+ items?
If the loot table is too long, it might be a bit frustrating if you are after a ery specific object.. kill placeholders and then the named... and rinse and repeat. Add to that named spots that are perma-camped. That being said, as I already mentioned, I'd prefer NPC to go about their life and not stay put at a very specific spot except if it makes some sense (like guards, may be the chief that is in his command room).
Feastycentral said:Would you want similar mobs to have shared loot tables with maybe only visual differences? Ex. in one zone/continent there's a lvl 15 named red ant that drops a red chitin breastplate and another zone has a lvl 15ish named green ant where the same breastplate drops but in green. Another example could be with two different similar named spiders that drop daggers with the same stats but one looks like an icepick and one has a slightly curved blade.
Is it better to just have shared loot tables and have the items exactly alike instead? Or not shared at all?
Nah... make items unique and somewhat memorable otherwise there is no particular reason to go after the different bosses that have a similar loot table.
Feastycentral said:Would you like certain drops to change who they drop from after a certain amount of time? So you got these cool boots from Fashionable Raider but a month later he no longer has been dropping them. However, someone else reports finding it on Classy Raider in a completely different camp that's similar level. This might keep peope constantly exploring, even on their alts, instead of having set camps and leveling routes.
A dynamic loot table for some rare drops would avoid the fact that you could get object A only from one given spot, and avoid the spoil effect with website that give away every secret of the game after a couple of months. On the other hand, in EQ for example, it is exactly this that made some named ultra sought after, and that brought people to certain dungeons / places. There were some very unique and specific items that you could only get at such and such place.
Feastycentral said:Should all or most named mobs have one ultra rare drop that is almost mythical in nature? You wouldn't even believe it was a drop if someone didn't link it because you've killed that mob 100+ times type of rarity.
That would be cool. What you really want is a heroic aventure that you can tell your great grand kids when the huddle together in front of the fire during a long winter night. Doesn't everybody want to be a bit special and being able to get that smile of the face when evrybody asked them how they came along this unique special item?
Feastycentral said: Would you want similar mobs to have shared loot tables with maybe only visual differences? Ex. in one zone/continent there's a lvl 15 named red ant that drops a red chitin breastplate and another zone has a lvl 15ish named green ant where the same breastplate drops but in green. Another example could be with two different similar named spiders that drop daggers with the same stats but one looks like an icepick and one has a slightly curved blade.
I think this is a good idea. IMO most players care about their appearance to a greater or lesser degree. So a player who gets the red BP might love it with his lobster-shell leggings, but when he gets better, green lizard-hide leggings he could decide that he wants the other BP despite it having the same stats. So he has a reason to go seeking the other named.
I think having some visual differentiation between functionally-equivalent loot drops is generally a good thing for the game. More choices is usually better than fewer, and all that. It also mirrors the plans for Crafted gear to have "Continental Styles" where the same general 'line' of a given level of gear will be equal in stats and bonuses on each continent, but have clearly different appearance depending on which continent a crafter gets the recipe from.
Would you like certain drops to change who they drop from after a certain amount of time? So you got these cool boots from Fashionable Raider but a month later he no longer has been dropping them. However, someone else reports finding it on Classy Raider in a completely different camp that's similar level. This might keep peope constantly exploring, even on their alts, instead of having set camps and leveling routes.
I like this too and it fits well with what VR has said their intentions are in regards to rarer, high-quality drops (like raid loot, though not JUST from raids). They plan to have at least a couple of different bosses share a loot table for the highly sought after drops, just to help avoid the traffic jams where long lines are camping one location for just one item.
Should all or most named mobs have one ultra rare drop that is almost mythical in nature? You wouldn't even believe it was a drop if someone didn't link it because you've killed that mob 100+ times type of rarity.
While the idea makes me drool just a little :) I think that every named mob having something uber - even if very rare - would be an impossible balancing act for the Devs. If you make it too rare, then only 1 player on a server might get it in several real-world years, and that's sort of a lot of development for the number of players enjoying it. If you make it drop enough for multiple people to get, then if the game lasts long enough with lots of players, it becomes too common.
I think the idea would work if the uber rare item was NOT uber because of it's combat power - defined as super AC armor or super Damage weapons - but as some form of horizontal reward. Maybe something closer to cosmetic or collector rewards. I don't have a suggestion for exactly what that would be, but then I'm not a Dev :)
Jothany said:I think having some visual differentiation between functionally-equivalent loot drops is generally a good thing for the game. More choices is usually better than fewer, and all that. It also mirrors the plans for Crafted gear to have "Continental Styles" where the same general 'line' of a given level of gear will be equal in stats and bonuses on each continent, but have clearly different appearance depending on which continent a crafter gets the recipe from.
Why give it exactly the same stats? Make it equivalent but with some differences. Why imagine that on different continents, the crafters will come up with exactly the same recipie ? make it, just as an example, +STA for one BP and +STR for another. Make it so that you have an actual reason to go after the other item beyong pure looks, and so that no every player has exactly the same stats at the same state of the game. One could even envision that you have some random stats on some gear. Imagine a BP with a +2 STA and then an extra +1 in any of the other characteristics. That way you could even have an incentive to go after the Named multiple times.
Jothany said:
Should all or most named mobs have one ultra rare drop that is almost mythical in nature? You wouldn't even believe it was a drop if someone didn't link it because you've killed that mob 100+ times type of rarity.While the idea makes me drool just a little :) I think that every named mob having something uber - even if very rare - would be an impossible balancing act for the Devs. If you make it too rare, then only 1 player on a server might get it in several real-world years, and that's sort of a lot of development for the number of players enjoying it. If you make it drop enough for multiple people to get, then if the game lasts long enough with lots of players, it becomes too common.
I think the idea would work if the uber rare item was NOT uber because of it's combat power - defined as super AC armor or super Damage weapons - but as some form of horizontal reward. Maybe something closer to cosmetic or collector rewards. I don't have a suggestion for exactly what that would be, but then I'm not a Dev :)
I think the devs mentioned items that would be thought after, not necesserily because they were über but because they had some great utility. I do not know where the devs had their special belts from that provided light but that could be a very useful and interesting object. Make it so that the stats of said belt are crap but then you's want it in a cave. You would have to abandon your great "belt of the deadly nosebleed" with those great stats for a light belt. Now that being said, and I don't know if that is easy to program and feasible for a MMORPG from the computational point of view, but a headgear that would illuminate only in the direction where you are looking... leaving the rest of the place around you in the dark. Like when you are exploring your basement with your hand held lamp.
Like the idea of nameds having multiple drops which suits a number of different archetypes. However I also like the idea of the same loot being droppable from any similar non named mobs in the area just with a much lower % chance for obvious reasons.
Having played Embers Adrift camping of bosses is a real real problem and will lead to arguements and people inevitably leaving the game. Give a chance for everyone to get a slice of the pie, not just coordinated groups and guilds which hold down a particular named boss
Alternatively just have numerous spawn points/pathing for named mobs
Feastycentral said:What are your preferences for normal named mob loot tables (essentially named mobs that aren't main/raid bosses)?
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Adrenicus said:... Having played Embers Adrift camping of bosses is a real real problem and will lead to arguements and people inevitably leaving the game. Give a chance for everyone to get a slice of the pie, not just coordinated groups and guilds which hold down a particular named boss
Alternatively just have numerous spawn points/pathing for named mobs
IMO:
Yep, saw the same thing in Embers Adrift, myself.
As a consequence, my new line in the sand regarding drop rates is: Nothing below a 10% chance.
If, as a designer, you (generic you, not anyone in this thread) feel that 1%, 0.1%, 0.01% or similar below-single-digit drop rate percentages are appropriate? Gonna have to point to Embers and any other game with similar drop rates and say: That's not fun. It isn't fun, wasn't fun, and won't be fun.
Because it's not. :) , in my opinion.
If you (generic you, not anyone in this thread) also feel that to 'balance' an item, you have to make it so rare that a <=9% drop rate is, in your opinion, required? Don't put the item in the game.
There's vastly better, more fun, less tedious, more respectiful of customer's time ways of handling item creation/generation than punitive drop rates.
Adrenicus said:Like the idea of nameds having multiple drops which suits a number of different archetypes. However I also like the idea of the same loot being droppable from any similar non named mobs in the area just with a much lower % chance for obvious reasons.
Having played Embers Adrift camping of bosses is a real real problem and will lead to arguements and people inevitably leaving the game. Give a chance for everyone to get a slice of the pie, not just coordinated groups and guilds which hold down a particular named boss
Alternatively just have numerous spawn points/pathing for named mobs
Named need to roam like most mobs (after all, they are called "mobs", not "stops"). I mean, they are supposed to have lives. I agree with you that drops should not be too rare so that everybody gets a chance to have a slice of the pie. With named placeholders and rare drops, it could already be a pain. Camping in one spot only means that you will outgrow places that you might have otherwise explored. Thats also why I think progression shouldn't be too fast.
Now, all that being said, I am not completely against super rate items. It could just be the classical loot table object that everybody wants but from time to time, very rarely, it could be of epic quality. I like the "ohh ****, I just won the lottery" type of aweness. It won't hit everybody and you can't really count on it by camping the heck out of a named, but on the same time, it creates this wonderful feeling for the guy that hits the jackpot and this sweet jealousy from all the people around. You want to hook people in the game, after all...
Grobobos said:Adrenicus said:Like the idea of nameds having multiple drops which suits a number of different archetypes. However I also like the idea of the same loot being droppable from any similar non named mobs in the area just with a much lower % chance for obvious reasons.
Having played Embers Adrift camping of bosses is a real real problem and will lead to arguements and people inevitably leaving the game. Give a chance for everyone to get a slice of the pie, not just coordinated groups and guilds which hold down a particular named boss
Alternatively just have numerous spawn points/pathing for named mobs
Named need to roam like most mobs (after all, they are called "mobs", not "stops"). I mean, they are supposed to have lives. I agree with you that drops should not be too rare so that everybody gets a chance to have a slice of the pie. With named placeholders and rare drops, it could already be a pain. Camping in one spot only means that you will outgrow places that you might have otherwise explored. Thats also why I think progression shouldn't be too fast.
Now, all that being said, I am not completely against super rate items. It could just be the classical loot table object that everybody wants but from time to time, very rarely, it could be of epic quality. I like the "ohh ****, I just won the lottery" type of aweness. It won't hit everybody and you can't really count on it by camping the heck out of a named, but on the same time, it creates this wonderful feeling for the guy that hits the jackpot and this sweet jealousy from all the people around. You want to hook people in the game, after all...
I agree I'm not against them either. My issue is when its from a single perma camped mob with a static spawn point. If it is too difficult for me to kill due to a lack of skill that is fine but I have issue when it is purely because I don't have the time to queue for hours to get my crack at it or certain guilds/groups of players have it tied down. But yeah random spawn points and pathing is an easyish solution imo :)
Adrenicus said:Like the idea of nameds having multiple drops which suits a number of different archetypes. However I also like the idea of the same loot being droppable from any similar non named mobs in the area just with a much lower % chance for obvious reasons.
Having played Embers Adrift camping of bosses is a real real problem and will lead to arguements and people inevitably leaving the game. Give a chance for everyone to get a slice of the pie, not just coordinated groups and guilds which hold down a particular named boss
Alternatively just have numerous spawn points/pathing for named mobs
Yep, this is a very good point and I agree. Same with others above mentioning having the same item stats but maybe different looks also existing in other locations, not funneling players into a specific path toward XYZ items is a net positive. Be it multiple locations in the world with specifc named and/or low percentage drop chance from common mobs, or items that can force spawn a named of the zone, etc.
I really like the idea of different color drops. Enough of us want specific colors to make it worthwhile. Plus, it keeps us excited by loot drops even if we already have it.
The best way to build this is to give each item a two color scheme. This adds a lot of variety with less work. Using only 5 colors, we would have 25 different primary +secondary color combos. This allows there to be a better drop rate while simultaneously making specific color combos much more rare.
Iksar said:I imagine that would lead to more/most people looking like "clowns" in their multi colored mismatched armors. I'd rather colors be pretty rare, just different styles and/or age/weathering/wear&tear.
It could be done in a way that isn't garish. There could still be standard colors (like silver in sword blades) and the two random colors are highlights. I'm not really looking to see a green sword blade with a black hilt, but rather a silver sword with a green and black hilt.