chenzeme said:Who cares about "firsts" apart from those that do it? Not many I would imagine, certainly not me.
If someone says to me, "I took out Big Bad Da Boss Boss", then I might be impressed, if someone tells me they were the first on a server; "meh!". Well done for taking the boss down, but it doesnt impress me any more so for being first; it just means you had a lot of help to get to the point you could try, probably at other people's expense.
I don't think there is any prestige at all in firsts, especially in modern times. Anything I see that offers such achievements or otherwise are done in as close to exploitive ways by streamers or people with multiple persons putting time into an account 24/7 etc.
The sad part about this obsession to reach 'end game', is that's exactly what you're doing, you're rushing to reach nothing, nowhere, end of game, end of content. Then, once they've blitzed every mob, zone and / or piece of content (not by their own means usually, by copying some guide), and they run out of things to do, the online spoon banging inevitably ensues.
It's such herd mentality, it reminds me of those muppets that kick each others teeth in, fighting over a television 'deal' in the Black Friday sales, when in reality, the price is usually higher than it's been throughout the year. They're so blinded by the herd moving in one direction, that they don't stop to look around once in a while to think about where they're going (the cash register), whether that's actually a good decision, or where they're coming from (have they made this mistake before in the past and ruined the experience for themselves).
Some of the videos on YouTube about New World content being completely mapped out almost the day it went live was very concerning, especially given the size of the development team associated with that game. You're no doubt going to have the same issue in Pantheon, and it will likely affect any item 'Prestige' when the process to obtain pretty much anything, even in a brand new MMO, is uploaded within hours of a game going live.
I really don't envy game developers these days, they're trying to remedy a mindset, not a technical / creative challenge, and that's pretty much impossible to do. You're battling a gaming community that would rather follow a guide, clicking buttons in a never-ending rotation, when they're told to click them, rather than explore, work things out for themselves, work things out with others, fail when things get tough, and ultimately, experience the content how it was / is intended by the developer.
In truth, I have no real issue with people rushing to complete things, it's their time, and their choice to do so. I just wish they'd understand what they're doing isn't 'normal / common / usual', most players don't have anywhere near the amount of free time to invest in their virtual pixel collection. For most, the content is more than adequate, the issue arises when these people whine about it everywhere they go because they end up stifling the success of a product by painting a negative impression based on their own, unrealistic, experience of the game.
Shadowbound said:The sad part about this obsession to reach 'end game', is that's exactly what you're doing, you're rushing to reach nothing, nowhere, end of game, end of content. Then, once they've blitzed every mob, zone and / or piece of content (not by their own means usually, by copying some guide), and they run out of things to do, the online spoon banging inevitably ensues.
It's such herd mentality, it reminds me of those muppets that kick each others teeth in, fighting over a television 'deal' in the Black Friday sales, when in reality, the price is usually higher than it's been throughout the year. They're so blinded by the herd moving in one direction, that they don't stop to look around once in a while to think about where they're going (the cash register), whether that's actually a good decision, or where they're coming from (have they made this mistake before in the past and ruined the experience for themselves).
Some of the videos on YouTube about New World content being completely mapped out almost the day it went live was very concerning, especially given the size of the development team associated with that game. You're no doubt going to have the same issue in Pantheon, and it will likely affect any item 'Prestige' when the process to obtain pretty much anything, even in a brand new MMO, is uploaded within hours of a game going live.
I really don't envy game developers these days, they're trying to remedy a mindset, not a technical / creative challenge, and that's pretty much impossible to do. You're battling a gaming community that would rather follow a guide, clicking buttons in a never-ending rotation, when they're told to click them, rather than explore, work things out for themselves, work things out with others, fail when things get tough, and ultimately, experience the content how it was / is intended by the developer.
In truth, I have no real issue with people rushing to complete things, it's their time, and their choice to do so. I just wish they'd understand what they're doing isn't 'normal / common / usual', most players don't have anywhere near the amount of free time to invest in their virtual pixel collection. For most, the content is more than adequate, the issue arises when these people whine about it everywhere they go because they end up stifling the success of a product by painting a negative impression based on their own, unrealistic, experience of the game.
Agreed. VR (and game devs in general) need to stop catering to the 'elite' players, YouTubers, speed-runners, meta-gamers and whatnot. They are ruining their own games for the majority, to try and stop the unstoppable for a minority.
This is not to say developers should make game for 'the masses', or that games shouldn't be challenging, but they should make games for 'normal' people.
I think of Path of Exile. I stopped playing it way back because, excellent game though it is, because they continually balanced again and again to try and make it difficult for the hardcore minmaxers and, in doing so, made in utterly unfun for the 'lesser' player.
Now in Path of Exile unless you are spending hours looking over YouTube videos and build guides and then spend more hours grinding for uber loot and in offline trading for items otherwise ultra rare, you get smashed in parts of the game that are supposed to be the most fun.
And even those meta-gamers aren't happy, because every time the devs 'break' their perfect uber-build they get upset... Then they make another that exploits some other tiny loophole weapon-skill combo.
If some players want to be 'uber' and rush through a game, let them. Then ignore their cries for more. They got what they wanted.
I appreciate it's a tough line for devs to walk. They need to make it challenging, but not too challenging. Accessible, but not easy.
Good luck VR. Just don't make the mistake of trying too hard for any particular sub-set of gamers, I guess hehe. Easy!
disposalist said:Shadowbound said:The sad part about this obsession to reach 'end game', is that's exactly what you're doing, you're rushing to reach nothing, nowhere, end of game, end of content. Then, once they've blitzed every mob, zone and / or piece of content (not by their own means usually, by copying some guide), and they run out of things to do, the online spoon banging inevitably ensues.
It's such herd mentality, it reminds me of those muppets that kick each others teeth in, fighting over a television 'deal' in the Black Friday sales, when in reality, the price is usually higher than it's been throughout the year. They're so blinded by the herd moving in one direction, that they don't stop to look around once in a while to think about where they're going (the cash register), whether that's actually a good decision, or where they're coming from (have they made this mistake before in the past and ruined the experience for themselves).
Some of the videos on YouTube about New World content being completely mapped out almost the day it went live was very concerning, especially given the size of the development team associated with that game. You're no doubt going to have the same issue in Pantheon, and it will likely affect any item 'Prestige' when the process to obtain pretty much anything, even in a brand new MMO, is uploaded within hours of a game going live.
I really don't envy game developers these days, they're trying to remedy a mindset, not a technical / creative challenge, and that's pretty much impossible to do. You're battling a gaming community that would rather follow a guide, clicking buttons in a never-ending rotation, when they're told to click them, rather than explore, work things out for themselves, work things out with others, fail when things get tough, and ultimately, experience the content how it was / is intended by the developer.
In truth, I have no real issue with people rushing to complete things, it's their time, and their choice to do so. I just wish they'd understand what they're doing isn't 'normal / common / usual', most players don't have anywhere near the amount of free time to invest in their virtual pixel collection. For most, the content is more than adequate, the issue arises when these people whine about it everywhere they go because they end up stifling the success of a product by painting a negative impression based on their own, unrealistic, experience of the game.
Agreed. VR (and game devs in general) need to stop catering to the 'elite' players, YouTubers, speed-runners, meta-gamers and whatnot. They are ruining their own games for the majority, to try and stop the unstoppable for a minority.
This is not to say developers should make game for 'the masses', or that games shouldn't be challenging, but they should make games for 'normal' people.
I think of Path of Exile. I stopped playing it way back because, excellent game though it is, because they continually balanced again and again to try and make it difficult for the hardcore minmaxers and, in doing so, made in utterly unfun for the 'lesser' player.
Now in Path of Exile unless you are spending hours looking over YouTube videos and build guides and then spend more hours grinding for uber loot and in offline trading for items otherwise ultra rare, you get smashed in parts of the game that are supposed to be the most fun.
And even those meta-gamers aren't happy, because every time the devs 'break' their perfect uber-build they get upset... Then they make another that exploits some other tiny loophole weapon-skill combo.
If some players want to be 'uber' and rush through a game, let them. Then ignore their cries for more. They got what they wanted.
I appreciate it's a tough line for devs to walk. They need to make it challenging, but not too challenging. Accessible, but not easy.
Good luck VR. Just don't make the mistake of trying too hard for any particular sub-set of gamers, I guess hehe. Easy!
quoting both of these as I couldn't agree more. Let "End Game" be just that. Not something to be aggressively pursued but something to be avoided. That is the only way I see to avoid the stat bloat, the need for new players to have level boost etc that plague most games out there now days. Keep a low level game that's inviting for new players for years to come
No first anything
If they build with a love of the game they are going to do fine. If they make a shiney apple that is rare and only grows on a tree at the top of a mountain guarded by an army of perturbed periwinkles then players will covet that apple and it will be their profile pic on FacesBooks. Because people are crazy and unpredictable.