IMO:
Customization is more powerful, 'sticky' and attractive than metadata.
Being the authoritative or canonical "source of truth" for a given scope is the job of the database. And modern storage allows for millions of IOPS.
Why does that matter? Because technology is no longer the limitation for systems like what has been theorycrafted on these forms. (and what you're suggesting, Rufious)
Tracking the history of an item is no longer a technology issue, it's a design issue. Should you? What's the value? Is it more fun? Does it make the game better? Does it add value for you or everyone?
Similarly, item rarity is a solved problem with appropriate economic design.
If you make it appropriately costly (not in $$$ or gold) to make an item useable and/or equippable? Economic harm becomes impossible.
Customization of all aspects of a character, including all loop skills, abilities, resistances, spells, gear, and similar will keep players playing longer than just about any other system.
The idea that something is 'rare' (in the 0.001% drop rate sense) is the path that leads to cash shops, RMT, and/or social toxicity, from what I've seen of history.
It also attracts exactly the smallest and least friendly target audience you would ever want. :)
I think people get too hung up on 'server first' things, the first guild to kill X, to loot Y, to go to Z, etc. It far better, I believe, to focus more on your person first. When did you kill X? Or loot Y? Or go to Z? If you did all those things without watching someone else's guild raid X, or pre-read the entire questline so you could get Y, etc then how is your accomplishment any different than theirs? Nothing but time. You still did it with you and your guilds' own efforts.
Zorkon said:I don't think they should do anything to promote the rush to "end game"
A prestige and 'end game' are not synonymous, necessarily, though most people believe it to be true. Any notable item that is difficult to obtain can be a prestige item. I would wager than the original EQ1 epic quests, although they had raid content in them, were not end game quests as much of them were done at the group level. It was the length, vagueness of clues, the tradeskills, the traveling all made them prestige items.
I felt that the 8th Coldain Prayer Shawl quest was more difficult than the Shaman Epic 1.0 with far more opportunities for failure which would set you back to the beginning. That item was quite prestigeous I think.
Vandraad said:Zorkon said:I don't think they should do anything to promote the rush to "end game"
A prestige and 'end game' are not synonymous, necessarily, though most people believe it to be true. Any notable item that is difficult to obtain can be a prestige item. I would wager than the original EQ1 epic quests, although they had raid content in them, were not end game quests as much of them were done at the group level. It was the length, vagueness of clues, the tradeskills, the traveling all made them prestige items.
I felt that the 8th Coldain Prayer Shawl quest was more difficult than the Shaman Epic 1.0 with far more opportunities for failure which would set you back to the beginning. That item was quite prestigeous I think.
I don't see it that way Vandraad, based on this part of the OP's post
Rufious said: How about giving an items a counter based on the number of times the item had dropped/been looted. This way, when the item drops, you would know if you were the 2nd person to ever loot it or 47th etc. There would be some degree of accomplishment knowing you were one of the first few to get an items. I would only keep it to equipable items. Whenever someone inspects your items, they could say 'wow, you were the 1st to get that sword', or helmet. It might make items with the oldest looting record go for more during a player to player sale just so they can have the first looted item of that kind on a server. What are other people's thoughts?
I would catagorize "First to get an item" the same as I would "First to lvl X" All things like that are going to promote the player to in fact be first, This in itself makes it a race, and a race to where else but "end game". Yes they can be avalable throughout the levels as well, but ulimatly there is going to be another carrot on a stick we will chase and the desire to aquire the item will always be there to then add "aquire it first" makes it not a goal as much as a race.
Seems like an unnecessary use of resources to do a count on items. I wouldn't even have the game let us know if we are the first to get an item. Am I better in any way than you because I get a drop of a new item before you even wake up because I am on EU time and you live in the Americas and are still asleep? If the item comes from a very difficult encounter and you rightly feel proud of beating it - shouldn't that be what you want the game to keep track of - world 351st to defeat a certain boss. On second thought I wouldn't want that either.
Zorkon said: I would catagorize "First to get an item" the same as I would "First to lvl X" All things like that are going to promote the player to in fact be first, This in itself makes it a race, and a race to where else but "end game". Yes they can be avalable throughout the levels as well, but ulimatly there is going to be another carrot on a stick we will chase and the desire to aquire the item will always be there to then add "aquire it first" makes it not a goal as much as a race.
I agree. Folks who rush to endgame will exist, but I wouldn't want anything in the game that would directly facilitate that mentality. At the same time lots of things I haven't considered could be used for that purpose, so it's a balancing act.
This topic has been promoted for my CM content, please continue the discussion and have fun! :)
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vjek said:Customization is more powerful, 'sticky' and attractive than metadata.
This, exactly.
I don't care where my stuff came from or how rare it is, as long I can have normal looking equipment without huge friggen swords and shoulderpads.
Let us reskin everything we own to be what we want it to be. We're not all looking something that's not WoW yet is an exact dupicate of WoW.
As far as "item prestige", I think there should be a certain subset of "prestige items" that should be named items. For example, the named Elvish swords in the Tolkein mythology. That said, the "prestige items" shouldn't just come from super epic encounters. There should be a very rare chance that you could find on one a "regular" mob or in a regular chest or what-have you. In addition, with named items, there should only be one item with that name.
I feel like this can be pandering to the individual. Do the players need additional incentive to feel 'special'? To feel like they can hold a shiney thing up and allow it, the item, to validate a story. If you possess a dagger you had to retrieve from a mountain top, the more substantial value is the journey and teamwork it took to get there and fight for it. If it's something the whole group got then you all share in the story to get it. That story will be unique. Adding a count to the item is artificially creating unnecessary incentive. Collecting 'stuff' as proof of your , what? Did you buy it? Did someone gift it to you? Where you in a guild that made it 80% of the trip there and you logged in and took the easy way?
Collecting is a motivation of sorts but it feels shallow and silly in a digital world. You can create collections of any and all types of digital assets but the harder and more rewarding time is spent with friends making memories.
I see, often, players talking about past journeys and battles. The funny and rewarding times they shared or worked together with others, both long friends and random strangers and their interactions. I almost never hear a detailed talk about the cloak or the sword or staff one had.
The little toys one can get are a fleeting endorphin hit, the travel and triumph and failings are where the long pleasure and contentment is found.
If any mark is to be placed on an item I would vote for a date first aquired, and that's it. Nothing more.
StoneFish said:If you possess a dagger you had to retrieve from a mountain top, the more substantial value is the journey and teamwork it took to get there and fight for it.
You can create collections of any and all types of digital assets but the harder and more rewarding time is spent with friends making memories.
I see, often, players talking about past journeys and battles. The funny and rewarding times they shared or worked together with others, both long friends and random strangers and their interactions. I almost never hear a detailed talk about the cloak or the sword or staff one had.
The little toys one can get are a fleeting endorphin hit, the travel and triumph and failings are where the long pleasure and contentment is found.
This right here.
Not a fan of 1sts. Server rushes to complete firsts are frustrating to an average player. Most of us will never even try.
However, if the firsts were not about who was the fastest to kill something, but instead for those that were the smartest and took the time (it should not be easy) to figure something special out, then that would have more value. Something not obvious (easter egg like). Plus, the important bit would be...if the player did not play for 60 days (or whatever time frame) then it would automatically be available (whatever the reward was) again OR something similar would be added for another person to find. Ongoing type of thing. That way it's not gone forever if the player quits.
Thimble said:Not a fan of 1sts. Server rushes to complete firsts are frustrating to an average player. Most of us will never even try.
However, if the firsts were not about who was the fastest to kill something, but instead for those that were the smartest and took the time (it should not be easy) to figure something special out, then that would have more value. Something not obvious (easter egg like). Plus, the important bit would be...if the player did not play for 60 days (or whatever time frame) then it would automatically be available (whatever the reward was) again OR something similar would be added for another person to find. Ongoing type of thing. That way it's not gone forever if the player quits.
I don't really like it when games put emphasis on world firsts, server firsts, or being the first to get something. I feel like this puts more emphasis on the end goal and less on the player's journey and experience of getting there. Honestly, not everyone can be first at everything, and personally, I don't care about being first as long as I am completing the content while it is still relevant.
I would hope that VR would avoid putting the emphasis on rushing to acquire something, and put the emphasis on the journey to acquire that item instead.
Who cares about "firsts" apart from those that do it? Not many I would imagine, certainly not me.
If someone says to me, "I took out Big Bad Da Boss Boss", then I might be impressed, if someone tells me they were the first on a server; "meh!". Well done for taking the boss down, but it doesnt impress me any more so for being first; it just means you had a lot of help to get to the point you could try, probably at other people's expense.