IMO:
If my race can see in the dark?
If I can make, buy, or trade to obtain night vision, ultravision or infravision potions, charged items, any other similar consumables, or equipment?
If I can pay someone to buff me for the duration of however long the ultrazord-level darkness lasts?
Then I care not one whit how long it is, how frequent it is, or even how dark it is.
But if all of that is not true? Then I don't want pitch black. It's just incredibly annoying to be unable to play the game. I've played games that have that, and it's just a barrier to fun.
Being unable to harvest, craft, travel, fight, or explore for half the time isn't fun in a game that's designed around harvesting, crafting, travel, fighting, and exploration.
Personally, I would just log off during night time if that's how it's going to be. I have hundreds of other games to play with the entire planet of gamers, if it comes down to a choice between sitting on my ass in pitch black darkness being unable to to anything productive in Terminus or logging off to have fun in another game.
This topic has been promoted for my CM content, please continue the discussion and have fun! :)
"Community Opinion - Night Time In Pantheon - Based on a community post - Is there such a thing as too dark? Here's the post if you want to join in on our official forums https://bit.ly/31frhbA #MMORPG #CommunityMatters"
StoneFish said:All cats are grey in the dark
I would very much enjoy an infrequent very dark night . Say 1 night in 70 in-game cycles
Let me know on a scale of 1 to ten.
1= pitch dark
10= dual full moons
Normal evening a 3 for my preference
I agree that the darkness of the night should vary.... Based on the phase of the moon and eather conditions makes the most sense and is the most "real world".
I'm all for long and meaningful nights and for darkness to mean something. Darkness in dungeons especially. But we're talking about being outside under the wide open skies.
A cycle of darkness similar to that of the real world would be great, as long as we have tools to dispell the darkness. And even the blackest night shouldn't be so dark that we can't navigate even if our torch has gone out. When you start talking about total darkness, a true pitch black scenario, there needs to be a solid gameplay or narrative reason for that otherwise you're just not respecting a player's time. Even in dungeons I'm all for them being nice and murky, but light sources should be meaningful and reach far. I've been deep down in mines before with only a helmet light and it gets very dark... but you can always see more than well enough, especially after your eyes adjust.
Assuming a torch or other such more magical illuminating item(s) are readily available a level 1 dark night is spooky and allows for variation.
I agree it should be a rare event and that normal nights are to be sufficient for the nyctophobiac to enjoy the game.
But, you are camping a hill, the hunting has been good for the past day or two, your party is having fun. The local wildlife has just exhibited strange behavior, they are scattering and disappearing. The sun sets and the moons fail to rise. You all realize it's the Shadow Night , once every 111 in game day cycles a 90 minute moment of potential chaos. You also realize you are in a, 'none too good' location and the creatures you heard tell, are soon to arrive. The dreaded Shadow Moths. They silently swoop down upon their prey and quickly gnaw and chew any leather or cloth wearables, leaving unsightly holes that will have to be patched by a tailor. The horror your party now faces, the possible morning embarrassing walk of shame back to town with raggedy clothing looking all tattered, the horror.
You do not play in darkness, you have a light, you have a campfire, you have a pet seagull with illuminating droppings upon your shoulders where it tends to perch, most of the time someone is going to have a light source.
But for maybe 90 minutes every 2 months there is an experience of being prepared or caught off guard during an event. An event that injects fear, frustration, excitement or glee.
Most of the time the night should be ??? 2 or 5 or 9?
There is this cavern system in VA (PA!), called Laurel caverns. It has some nice "follow the path and see how beautiful" paths, and "these are paths with no guard rails where you will get dirty and need flashlights and physical ability" paths, and "you'll find out if you are claustrophibic" paths. when I went we had a guided tour that takes you through a little of all three, just before you get to the last one, you enter a dimly lit space and the guide has you remember how dim it is. Then you get into a deep large cavern and we turn and look at the spelunker practice path and everyone gets a try if they want, the entrance is really tight and bends quickly and its scary if you dont know what to expect. I thought I could not back out but there was someone on the other end to help. Thats part of the thrill so they say. Then the guide had ius sit and turned the light out and it was black. Could not see your hand before your face, you could feel your iris's expanding. As I slowly turned my head around I could make out outlines and exiting pathways where some light was spilling in and outlines of people. Eventually I could see the outline of my hand but thats it. Some spelunkers passed us and went in that tiny hole. then the guide lead us out to the area where the light was. It was so bright! we were all shading our eyes and squinting and he told us, that was the same room we said was dim earlier and showed the wall marking. That was really neat.
What I am getting at is. I dont mind very dark so long as I can make out sillouhuettes (sp?) like a forest line against a backdrop of a starry night. If I have a light source I would like it to diffuse and not necessarily stop short at a certain boundary distance. If there is a magic item that gives an enhanced view but not a blatant view, thats ok too ( like infra-red)
*Edit* I went to Laurel Caverns in Pennsylvania- not Lauray caverns in VA. the one in PA. If you look at the pictures of the map, in the middle it gets messy, those chunks are boulders that stick up or hang down. People who want to spelunk go in there for practice and often get lost and they send the pros by end of day to fish them out unless they can get out themselves which is an accomplishment. the tour I went on started at the left and it was nice in the long corridors and then we swooped down to the right to the center to the dark cavern, and back out, around.
I'm 19 PADI dive master working for the Florida Oceanographic Society. On a third dive of the day, now night approx 10PM, I am decompress stalled at 20 feet. About 1/2 mile (800 meters) off shore and my light dies. I remember the darkness that touched my soul. The fear was exhilarating.
I want to see 99% of the time, but also I want a shocking darkness to exist somewhere in this world.
Manouk, I now want to visit Laurel Caverns
StoneFish said:I'm 19 PADI dive master working for the Florida Oceanographic Society. On a third dive of the day, now night approx 10PM, I am decompress stalled at 20 feet. About 1/2 mile (800 meters) off shore and my light dies. I remember the darkness that touched my soul. The fear was exhilarating.
I want to see 99% of the time, but also I want a shocking darkness to exist somewhere in this world.
Manouk, I now want to visit Laurel Caverns
That would have certainly kept you awake! I have a healthy respect for the ocean and its unexplored depths but I agree with you about seeing most of the time but still allowing a shock factor of darkness in a cave or part of the world with a good reason or it to be that dark, maybe a weather event, high winds blew out all the cave torches etc.
Some kind of pucker factor to give you an experience that you wouldn't have otherwise had is appealing to me.
VR has told us that night time will be a noticeably different environment than daytime. The implication I took from that was a noticeably more dangerous environment. Degraded field of view seems like a perfectly fitting aspect of that.
To be clear, I am NOT advocating for anyplace being so dark that you hurriedly check to see if your monitor stopped working.
Kilsin said: I agree with you about seeing most of the time but still allowing a shock factor of darkness in a cave or part of the world with a good reason or it to be that dark, maybe a weather event, high winds blew out all the cave torches etc.
Some kind of pucker factor to give you an experience that you wouldn't have otherwise had is appealing to me.
That's what I would like.
Nights should vary just like in real life, as Kalok describes.
'Normal' dark nights (no moons) should have a sky that is lighter than the ground and lets you see outlines of stuff against it, travel and fight. All without your own light source. But it should be full of shadows that might hide a threat that you would see in daytime. Having a light should give you a local area similar to bright moonlight and a bit more warning of threats, but stuff beyond is still in shadows. Perhaps if multiple players are carrying light sources they can slightly increase your viewing range.
Every now and then you should have a particularly dark night. No moons and maybe clouds obscuring the stars. This should be very dark. Perhaps roads might have faint markers that let you follow them, so you can find your way to the nearest civilization. But if you don't have a light source in your group you will be very vulnerable. This "pucker factor" would be a learning experience LoL.
If you have a light source on such a night, you will be able to see well enough for a group to engage in combat with near normal effectiveness. But you won't see much farther than the immediate area of battle. No catching sight of other mobs approaching.
The upside to all this darkness should IMO be that the darker the night, the deadlier the creatures you can encounter!
(and the more rewards to be gotten from defeating them)
"The upside to all this darkness should IMO be that the darker the night, the deadlier the creatures you can encounter!"
Sorry but I don't agree that having the deadliest mobs around when you can't see them is all that good an idea. Especially in a game with a real death penalty. Especially in a game where most mobs are designed for groups and the victim may be someone on his or her own just trying to enjoy the world.
Pantheon is all about the environment and the elements. Night and day should have a normal cycle.
I am totally up for a moonless night that would happen every 70 cycles. Moon, or another planet that blocks the night sky. Darkness of 1 works for me. In many places in the world the inhabitants should be aware of this and rare events should happen. Some creatures should go dormant for 70 cycles, feast and famine. Seasons should also affect what creatures become active.
Outside of the cyclic nature of the world, there should be differant types of darkness. Obviously magical darkness, that would also affect creatures that normally see at night. There should be some rare crafting material that only grows (or forms) in the darkest of dark. Great risk should bring great reward. Dark underwater caves should be a thing, with predators, but rare materials.
Since climbing is a thing, this should also work on the highest peaks, where the air is thin and cold, and the rarest of herbs grow. What mysteries happen in the most secluded places where the darkest of dark happens? What does your character perceive in the darkest of dark?
I am totally expecting VR to create these places, when time and where place matters. Learning to cope with all these conditions is what makes the world fun and your character small.
I don't mind dark environments that are difficult to see in, as long as there are ways to adapt and deal with these environments.
In terms of day and night cycles, I think that it is fine to have extremely dark nights provided players can acquire some sort of light source early on. This light source doesn't have to be the best option for dealing with dark environments, but it would need to be impactful enough to enhance gameplay during extremely dark nights. I think that it would also be a good thing to introduce this sort of game mechanic to new players early on, so they can get an idea of what to expect from dark environments going forward.
For general night-time darkness, on a scale of 1-10, I am probably about 3 or 4. I think there needs to be enough visibility for players to still participate in content, but enough challenge for players to want to find a way to enhance their visibility.
I think a 2-1 day-night cycle is probably good. You still get a decent chunk of time where nighttime matters but it's not overbearing. But I would also be OK with a 50/50 split.
What if the darkest night was rare, as suggested by Stonefish, but the darkest part of that night only lasted for 2 hours (in game, not RL) in the middle most part of the night. If you choose to adventure through it, there will be rewards commensurate with the risk, otherwise you circle the wagons and just try and survive. As long as it is rare enough that it doesn't become a turnoff or tedious for people who don't like that sort of thing I think it could be a lot of fun for people that do.
Another option would be that this rare night is magical in effect and only affects a certain open world zone (or area, since there aren't really zones). Then, if you don't like to play through that kind of darkness, in the rare event that it happens while you are playing you have other zones to play in.
Ruinar said:What if the darkest night was rare, as suggested by Stonefish, but the darkest part of that night only lasted for 2 hours (in game, not RL) in the middle most part of the night. If you choose to adventure through it, there will be rewards commensurate with the risk, otherwise you circle the wagons and just try and survive. As long as it is rare enough that it doesn't become a turnoff or tedious for people who don't like that sort of thing I think it could be a lot of fun for people that do.
I thought you placed the wagons in a square?