While I like the concept behind the climate system my concern is the implementation.
From what we know/hear there are multiple climate types each requiring multiple pieces of equipment to deal with.
Will we have the storage space for all these items?
How much grinding will be required to get them?
We use to semi-joke that it took forever to get specific items in EverQuest, is Pantheon going the same route?
Sakkara said:While I like the concept behind the climate system my concern is the implementation.
From what we know/hear there are multiple climate types each requiring multiple pieces of equipment to deal with.
Will we have the storage space for all these items?
How much grinding will be required to get them?
We use to semi-joke that it took forever to get specific items in EverQuest, is Pantheon going the same route?
I hope so!
IMHO the other option is a fast track to "end game", I want to see that less.
Sakkara said:From what we know/hear there are multiple climate types each requiring multiple pieces of equipment to deal with.
Will we have the storage space for all these items?
While some gear you get may help protect you from a specific climate, the impression I get is that the majority of your protection will come from glyphs. They will be stored in your glyph pouch LoL. Your UI will have specific slots for all of your glyphs. So that won't take up any of your storage space.
As for the drop rate, I'm sure they will be tinkering with many such rates all thru Alpha.
I am goiong off of memory, so DONT take my word as dogma.
But I remember seeing, publically in a stream, a display of a second page in inventory screen where acclimation slots were displayed, like above in rows labaled arms, legs, feet, hands, etc with column headers for poison, pressure(air), cold, etc. Additionally, below in columns: poison, pressure(air), cold, etc with small rows attached to those columns indicating oomph factors. my ASSUMPTION is that you can collect- (-> big assumption coming) or stack?- acclimation glyphs and sort them there, and then ->slide?- them into place in inventory as you need them. So like if you need forge dwarven ice steel in the only forge located in the lava pit, you put more lava acclimation on your feet and more cold acclimation on hands and arms- or maybe positioning is not that specific and you just need some of both to get to that spot like you can have lava on hands and ice on legs if thats the only slots you have acclimation glyphs to fit.
Also, acclimation glyphs are somewhat consumable, so you need to keep an eye on them, but not quickly consumable and -> there may be either: rare permanent glyphs that can be obtained through questing, and rare max glyphs that can also be obtained through questing. Im not sure about that as it would be hard to balance and avoid min/maxing.
What I have not solved or even considered is: my bias coming in on "resists" vs the new Pantheon acclimation system. like will I have resists and still need acclimation? are resists needed for like direct personal damage where acclimation is needed for environmental damage? "In space, no one can hear you scream" kind of thing. That quote I think shows how you are personally protected, but not encironmentally effective.
or is there no real environmental damage but death- like drowning- but rather acclimation/glyphs provide better ability to maneuver or interact in the environment- like swimming. A glyph would be Scuba, a better glyph would be, Jaques Cousteau, lets see the vampire squid and look, isnt that the titanic? so deep we are and not crushed. Another glyph might be dolphin like sonar inspectability/perception? or hammerhead shark sonar? I dont know.
If I had money to throw at it...heh
Manouk said:What I have not solved or even considered is: my bias coming in on "resists" vs the new Pantheon acclimation system. like will I have resists and still need acclimation? are resists needed for like direct personal damage where acclimation is needed for environmental damage? "In space, no one can hear you scream" kind of thing. That quote I think shows how you are personally protected, but not encironmentally effective.
That's my understanding as well. 'Resists' for such things as Fire, Cold, Poison, Disease, etc are your 'combat' type resists, things that you'll have to deal with when facing NPCs. That huge spider or snake could poison you. That mummy could disease you. But that cave high up in the frozen mountain tops needs 'Frigid' glyphs to protect you from the environment. There could still be an NPC that casts some cold based spell where your personal 'Cold' resist would the come into play.
Sakkara said:While I like the concept behind the climate system my concern is the implementation.
From what we know/hear there are multiple climate types each requiring multiple pieces of equipment to deal with.
Will we have the storage space for all these items?
How much grinding will be required to get them?
We use to semi-joke that it took forever to get specific items in EverQuest, is Pantheon going the same route?
VR has always talked about horizontal progression as a way to extend content. I expect there to be some grinding but I don't consider that a negative thing. The issue you are referring to about inventory/bank space goes well beyond glyphs/gear for acclimation.
Because specific abilities will be modified by specific stats, we will have gear sets based on what ability load out we have up currently. They also want to make all stats useful for all classes so expect to have gear sets for individual or a couple stats...and also a general/balanced stat gear set. This may end up a much larger consumer of space than acclimation gear but we will see. They are saying that stats will matter. If each stat point matters we will have a ton of gear sets.
Yes! Duderino, that was it!. Nice of you to pull that screenie. So if that is still going, it looks like- well if they have glyphs you can put the glyphs in any slot? So maybe I have a poison glyph, and I can choose a armor slot to put it in on that tab. So...I will be acclimated to the environment as much as the poison glyph allows me to be, wether its on my shoes or on my gloves. So I am thinking the more glyphs to fill more armor slots, the more fully acclimated I could be and therefore allowing more freedom of movement or whatever. What I see the fun part about this is allowing for that intuitive puzzle aspect of acclimation where you think: I should put my scorching glyph on my shoes and legs, and then put the frigid glyph on my arms and hands so that I can forge the dwarven cold steel in the center of that lava place (protect feet and legs from lava, protect arms and hands from cold forging) Now. Scorshing and cold glyphs would accomplish the same thing on helm and breastplate but the first combo seems more intuitive if you know what I mean.
Manouk said:
Yes! Duderino, that was it!. Nice of you to pull that screenie. So if that is still going, it looks like- well if they have glyphs you can put the glyphs in any slot? So maybe I have a poison glyph, and I can choose a armor slot to put it in on that tab. So...I will be acclimated to the environment as much as the poison glyph allows me to be, wether its on my shoes or on my gloves. So I am thinking the more glyphs to fill more armor slots, the more fully acclimated I could be and therefore allowing more freedom of movement or whatever. What I see the fun part about this is allowing for that intuitive puzzle aspect of acclimation where you think: I should put my scorching glyph on my shoes and legs, and then put the frigid glyph on my arms and hands so that I can forge the dwarven cold steel in the center of that lava place (protect feet and legs from lava, protect arms and hands from cold forging) Now. Scorshing and cold glyphs would accomplish the same thing on helm and breastplate but the first combo seems more intuitive if you know what I mean.
The glyphs are slot specific. So it will be an arm glyph, head glyph, leg glyph, etc. You can see from a stream last March.
Sakkara said:While I like the concept behind the climate system my concern is the implementation.
From what we know/hear there are multiple climate types each requiring multiple pieces of equipment to deal with.
Will we have the storage space for all these items?
How much grinding will be required to get them?
We use to semi-joke that it took forever to get specific items in EverQuest, is Pantheon going the same route?
Here's hoping.
I don't see any other masochists wishing glyphs were minor only. :( I would much rather we all need special items to go through environments. Do quests to get the bare minimum quality of gear that must also have glyphs on it just to survive. Certain masks to protect you from poisons. Warm armor for where it is a blizzard. Boots that wont melt in the acid, another pair that wont burn when running over red hot stones. Crafters making protective gear out of monsters found in the environments to allow you to cope and explore. Diving gear for swimming in the deep. People needing their ~6 sets of gear.
Like everyone else I will take the path of least resistance and glyph up the same armor I wear everywhere.
Jobeson said:
I don't see any other masochists wishing glyphs were minor only. :( I would much rather we all need special items to go through environments. Do quests to get the bare minimum quality of gear that must also have glyphs on it just to survive. Certain masks to protect you from poisons. Warm armor for where it is a blizzard. Boots that wont melt in the acid, another pair that wont burn when running over red hot stones. Crafters making protective gear out of monsters found in the environments to allow you to cope and explore. Diving gear for swimming in the deep. People needing their ~6 sets of gear.
Like everyone else I will take the path of least resistance and glyph up the same armor I wear everywhere.
Don't confuse glyphs with gear, it's a separate system. Think of glyphs as a type of consumable that is slotted in a different tab. Glyphs can be crafted and possibly looted. They degrade over time and will eventually need to be replaced.
Duderino said:Don't confuse glyphs with gear, it's a separate system. Think of glyphs as a type of consumable that is slotted in a different tab. Glyphs can be crafted and possibly looted. They degrade over time and will eventually need to be replaced.
Glyphs will come from 3 sources, that being purchases, crafted and looted..unless that statement has been refactored already. But it makes sense that the initial (aka weakest) glyphs you would obtain to deal with the environments in your immediate starting area would be purchased. After all, your people have been in that area for ages and should have developed a means by which to protect themselves in the lands surrounding their city.
Vandraad said:
Duderino said:
Don't confuse glyphs with gear, it's a separate system. Think of glyphs as a type of consumable that is slotted in a different tab. Glyphs can be crafted and possibly looted. They degrade over time and will eventually need to be replaced.
Glyphs will come from 3 sources, that being purchases, crafted and looted..unless that statement has been refactored already. But it makes sense that the initial (aka weakest) glyphs you would obtain to deal with the environments in your immediate starting area would be purchased. After all, your people have been in that area for ages and should have developed a means by which to protect themselves in the lands surrounding their city.
I was unaware that glyphs could be purchased. I'm assuming that means there will be glyph vendors for their designated area.
Duderino said:
Vandraad said:
Duderino said:Don't confuse glyphs with gear, it's a separate system. Think of glyphs as a type of consumable that is slotted in a different tab. Glyphs can be crafted and possibly looted. They degrade over time and will eventually need to be replaced.
Glyphs will come from 3 sources, that being purchases, crafted and looted..unless that statement has been refactored already. But it makes sense that the initial (aka weakest) glyphs you would obtain to deal with the environments in your immediate starting area would be purchased. After all, your people have been in that area for ages and should have developed a means by which to protect themselves in the lands surrounding their city.
I was unaware that glyphs could be purchased. I'm assuming that means there will be glyph vendors for their designated area.
I would assume that most climates would have a vendor located somewhere in the world that sells at least the basic glyphs for the said climate. I would also assume that higher-level glyphs would require players to craft them or come from drops off enemies. It is still too early to say exactly how the obtainment of glyphs will play out, but I am sure that VR has already formed some sort of idea for how they want this to play out.
Duderino said:Don't confuse glyphs with gear, it's a separate system. Think of glyphs as a type of consumable that is slotted in a different tab. Glyphs can be crafted and possibly looted. They degrade over time and will eventually need to be replaced.
You read a post lamenting glyphs existence while wishing players needed gear sets for acclimation instead... only to be worried I believe they are the same thing? Glyphs are not a fun design, they are a gold sink.
Jobeson said:Duderino said:Don't confuse glyphs with gear, it's a separate system. Think of glyphs as a type of consumable that is slotted in a different tab. Glyphs can be crafted and possibly looted. They degrade over time and will eventually need to be replaced.
You read a post lamenting glyphs existence while wishing players needed gear sets for acclimation instead... only to be worried I believe they are the same thing? Glyphs are not a fun design, they are a gold sink.
You're forgetting that the glyphs are permanent until you get a better one.
Jobeson said:You read a post lamenting glyphs existence while wishing players needed gear sets for acclimation instead... only to be worried I believe they are the same thing? Glyphs are not a fun design, they are a gold sink.
It's an entirely separate form of progression. If acclimation were tied to gear then they would have to just be resists or it would be a terribly limited system in terms of dealing with any threats in an area and gearing options.
Kalok said:You're forgetting that the glyphs are permanent until you get a better one.
This is no longer the case. (source) Joppa explained that Glyphs are not going to be permanent (most likely) and will wear off over time and need to be replaced. There will be some rare Glyphs that will have multiple applications and maybe some Legendary ones that have infinite use.
Think of these like getting those sticky Temporary Tatoo's you put on your hand and then apply moisture to make the ink transfer to your skin. Some you find will be just a single use. Rare ones are like getting a 6 pack. And the Legendary ones are like finding a Tatoo Stamp.
It's likely that different quality of Glyphs will also have shorter or longer durations. So some of the cheap ones you get from Vendors in town might last a shorter time, while those Crafted by players might last much longer. While those found in dangerous places might have even longer durations.
Sakkara asks:Will we have the storage space for all these items?
How much grinding will be required to get them?
Our most current view of the UI for Glyph pouch shows 24 slots. Unknown by me if this is always the same or if the slot size of our Glyph pouch will be something we can control.
Perhaps we can aquire upgrade Glyph Pouches, or perhaps our Glyph Pouch slots will be based on a percentage of our total bag space, as if the Glyph Pouch are just side pockets to our bags.
So maybe it's like 40%.
So if you only have 1 bag with 10 slots you get 4 Glyph Pouch slots.
If you have 5 bags each with 10 slots (50 total) you will have 20 Glyph Pouch slots.
If you get 5 bags with 12 slots each (60 total) you get 24 Glyph Pouch lots.
(In the footage where we saw 24 Glyph Pouch slots the player had 5 12 slot bags).
Perhaps some Rare bags could give bonuses to Glyph pouch slots. So maybe you find some Legendary bag that has +4 Glyph pouch slots as a magical bonus.
There are 6 different Slots: Head, Torso, Arms, Hands, Legs, Feet.
There are 6 different Types: Scorching, Frigid, Wind Shear, Anarobic, Toxic, Pressure.
This means that if you were to carry at least 1 glyph of each type for each slot you would need 36 total slots.
As for Grinding...
You can likely get some basic low level Glyphs really easy from vendors and crafters. But just like with gear, the really good Glyphs will be harder to come by and require some adventuring. Even higher level Crafters will likely require some effort to aquire the componants for higher level Glyphs.
Side note:
I also wanted to point out that we are making an assumption that all Glyphs will only be of 1 type at a time.
The latest footage we have at this time shows a tooltip:
It tells us that the Glyph is Fiery Green that protects against Toxic climates.
We should keep in mind though that perhaps some more advanced rare glyphs could be multiple colors and protect against multiple Climate types at the same time; all with the same Glyph.
This could be a surprise for us that the Dev's are keeping to themselves for when somebody actually finds one that has multi-type protection.
Jobeson said:
Duderino said:
Don't confuse glyphs with gear, it's a separate system. Think of glyphs as a type of consumable that is slotted in a different tab. Glyphs can be crafted and possibly looted. They degrade over time and will eventually need to be replaced.
You read a post lamenting glyphs existence while wishing players needed gear sets for acclimation instead... only to be worried I believe they are the same thing? Glyphs are not a fun design, they are a gold sink.
I'm merely pointing out it's a form of progression completely serparate from gearing. Fun or not is subjective and I'm relatively neutral to the mechanic. I do understand the necessity of various progression systems and gold sinks.
