Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Let's talk about se...global chat

    • 223 posts
    October 8, 2021 3:54 AM PDT

    A fairly straight forward topic; where do you, we, stand on global chat? Does it promote community engagement or does it do the opposite, does it damage it?

    Should Pantheon have a global server chat. Or is zone chat enough. Heck, why not just a proximity chat (see yell)?


    This post was edited by Lafael at October 8, 2021 3:54 AM PDT
    • 422 posts
    October 8, 2021 6:48 AM PDT

    I am completely against a global chat. While it might make it easier to find people to group with maybe in a game without any LFG system, it also makes it easier to spew stupidity. Which is always what happens.

    Global chats are full or trash, trolling, politics, and other stupidity which ends up drowning out anything actually important.

    This can happen in zone chat as well, but it is less likely as the audience is smaller than a global chat. Also, if you're in a zone killing, like a dungeon, I feel there would be less of this as you'd be more focused.

    City zone chat would most likely still be garbage, but it's something.

     

    • 1921 posts
    October 8, 2021 8:40 AM PDT

    IMO:

    If they don't put it in game, it will happen in Discord.
    Same principle as any other related game feature that players really want or expect.

    IIRC, the last time it came up, they said guilds will likely have a game-wide guild chat, and there would likely be ad-hoc global chat channels that could be created by users, just like EQ1. 
    However, that discussion was sometime during the past 7.5+ years, so they may have completely changed their mind and there could be a significant reduction or removal of related chat features and/or there will be no in-game chat at all. :)  Who knows?  VR doesn't like to confirm features, it restricts their ability to drop those features at any time without warning.

    Personally, I don't care about the range of chat, only the frequency and content.  Provided there are sane limits on frequency and content, and I can enable/disable any/all channels, have as much chat as you want.  SW:TOR does a pretty good job in this regard, even with trial/free accounts sharing some of the world with paid accounts.  Gold sellers abuse spam to their respective limits, but those limits are severe enough, it's not a huge annoyance.
    I do like the 'you can't /tell me until I /friend you' feature, though.  When you can turn off all other ranged/global chat, and join your guild/group chat, then you can actually pay attention to guild chat & group chat, and the rest isn't unsolicited/distracting.
    I also think global & persistent 'ignore all guild invite, group invite, duels and friend requests' toggles, for each, is also a requirement given VR is going ahead with dropped & tradeable coin currency.  Similarly, client & server enforced throttling of all of those (guild invites, group invites, duels, and friend requests) should also be implemented & tested, thoroughly, prior to launch.


    This post was edited by vjek at October 8, 2021 8:46 AM PDT
    • 2138 posts
    October 8, 2021 10:00 AM PDT

    If the situation is just right: you are a little down IRL, you log in to pass some time and your moping bleeds into your character a bit and there just so happens to be 3 or 4 sharp and witty people in a general chat that you have come into the middle of their banter, listening. And they change your mood around, they could be talking about whatever (usually game stuff) but the reparte is gregarious and strangers occasionally chime in with quips of their own that only add to the bonhomie. But this is few and far between- usually early in the AM, like, early early, like, I'm up 2 hours before I normally leave the place to commute to work early and its my weekend.

    However, I would prefer: no chat channels. everyone has to speak out-loud and the range is appropriate for talking, shouts are zone-wide. (I would also like the /yell  or alert/counterfletch flare type thing). The only "quiet" talk can be when grouped- so you can literally "talk amongst yourselves" especially in like camp disputes or whatever. No tells except when in close proximity as if a whisper- I know I know they're a dwarf and you're a skar how will you communicate? well language will be an issue in game as well and - you both will have to play the game to get together- build faction, learn class, get exp high enough to travel, etc. Besides there's also discord for those who forgo some immersion. I think guild leaders should be the only ones with access to broadcast globally to guild members in guild chat. I think guild members should only have access to see location of other guild members- that cannot be turned off (will help with disputes).

    buying and selling may be an issue because of spam, but I think the community can curtail that. it may force sellers to find spots to sell one or two items to one or two people and restrict volume, which would be a good thing as it will get them away form selling and into adventuring, because the place is huge. ayone wanting to be known for having a certain item like pelts will have to voluntarily incarcerate themselves to constantly farming a supply so they can sell it, on demand, when seen by other players to keep that reputation.

     

    • 363 posts
    October 8, 2021 10:42 AM PDT

    Zone chat is enough, good balance imo. 

    • 392 posts
    October 8, 2021 12:03 PM PDT

    Between guild, zone and other outside chats sytems I agree theres not really a need for a global level chat.

    • 1992 posts
    October 8, 2021 1:04 PM PDT

    I personally have rarely found much use for a global channel, or even zone channel.

    However.... There seems to be a considerable number of people in all the games I've been in that like to use them. So if it only takes a click or two to turn it off, and the setting remains thru zoning and logouts, I see no reason not to have it available. Any game function that is easy to implement, useful to a significant % of players, and has minimal or no impact on those who aren't interested, can only increase the population of the game IMO.

    Guild chat and group chat - that are both global - are always useful to me, so I certainly want them. I haven't done a lot of marketing of crafted goods before, but if crafting turns out as well as I hope, I could see using a Trade channel as well. A city channel could play into the trading situation as well.

    I also remember the statement vjek mentioned, where VR said that we would be able to create unique chat channels for personal use. I would find that useful. If I'm in a group and several of my friends are logged in but not playing in my group, it would be great for us to make a 'Friends' channel for just us.


    This post was edited by Jothany at October 8, 2021 1:07 PM PDT
    • 438 posts
    October 8, 2021 1:35 PM PDT
    Global? Nah. But I do like trade Channels or Buy/Sell channels if you opt into them. Those are great for people who don’t want to deal with auction houses and such. A zone or even continent channel I am all for as well.
    • 2752 posts
    October 8, 2021 2:23 PM PDT

    No global chat, always filled with awful nonsense these days. 

    • 1281 posts
    October 8, 2021 3:46 PM PDT

    I'm kinda on the fence about it. I'm going to lean conservatively and say no for right now. Reason being is that it would ruin some things like having an area be for auctions.

    You could say positives about it may be make it easier to find groups. But isn't that what the LFG tool is for?

    Plus, anything to encourage people to travel is good. Not needing to becuase you can just sit somewhere and have global access to wide communication channels is kinda against why PROTF is different than existing games.

    This just reminds me of other ways how some people are trying to make Pantheon just like every other MMO that no one wants to play - what's the point of even making this game if it's going to wind up like all the other ones?


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at October 8, 2021 3:49 PM PDT
    • 2419 posts
    October 8, 2021 5:47 PM PDT

    Lafael said:

    Should Pantheon have a global server chat. Or is zone chat enough. Heck, why not just a proximity chat (see yell)?

    Oh heck no.  No global chat.  It's bad enough to have zone-wide chat.  Global chat is just abused by spammers, bots and other garbage constantly spewing junk.  It isn't needed.

    • 223 posts
    October 8, 2021 6:59 PM PDT

    I would be interested in hearing VRs thoughts on this topic. I personally can't recall what was last discussed. Any chance of this Kilsin?

    • 3852 posts
    October 9, 2021 3:41 AM PDT

    kellindil is correct an all respects. Every one.

    But it still seems strange to have a game focused on social interaction and grouping without the most commonly used device for ...social interaction and forming groups. After all, when global chat does what it usally does we have three choices. Turn it off. Leave it on because we actually enjoy the nonsense and stupidity and trolling. Or leave it on because bad as it is we *need* it because despite the lfg mechanism we need it to form or find a group, or for some other reason important to us at the time. Finding a guild or asking a question if other mechanisms provided for such aren't accomplishing the objective.

    So I am weakly leaning towards supporting global chat as long as it can easily be turned off.


    This post was edited by dorotea at October 9, 2021 3:41 AM PDT
    • 1399 posts
    October 9, 2021 10:06 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    kellindil is correct an all respects. Every one.

    But it still seems strange to have a game focused on social interaction and grouping without the most commonly used device for ...social interaction and forming groups. After all, when global chat does what it usally does we have three choices. Turn it off. Leave it on because we actually enjoy the nonsense and stupidity and trolling. Or leave it on because bad as it is we *need* it because despite the lfg mechanism we need it to form or find a group, or for some other reason important to us at the time. Finding a guild or asking a question if other mechanisms provided for such aren't accomplishing the objective.

    So I am weakly leaning towards supporting global chat as long as it can easily be turned off.

    I agree Kellindil is correct of what global chat would become, I also agree with needing the ability to turn it off. However I see a positive in a troll infested global chat. VR has suggested the world will be self goverend, "Reputation Matters". A troll infested Global Chat with the ability to /blacklist the trolls as they reveal themselves (as opposed to turning off the entire chat) might go a long way to help reputation mattering.

    "Give him enough rope and he will hang himself" Global Chat being the rope.

    • 1992 posts
    October 9, 2021 12:42 PM PDT

    Zorkon said: I agree Kellindil is correct of what global chat would become, I also agree with needing the ability to turn it off. However I see a positive in a troll infested global chat. VR has suggested the world will be self goverend, "Reputation Matters". A troll infested Global Chat with the ability to /blacklist the trolls as they reveal themselves (as opposed to turning off the entire chat) might go a long way to help reputation mattering.
    "Give him enough rope and he will hang himself" Global Chat being the rope.

    Good Point.

    Now that I'm reminded of this, I have to agree. People often forget that everyone on the server might be listening, even if only 1 or 2 others are talking back, and reveal more about their true nature than they intended. It wasn't frequent for sure, but occasionally I've seen a person saying something that let me know I would very likely not enjoy grouping with them and certainly would have conflicts if I wound up in a small Guild with them.

    • 113 posts
    October 9, 2021 1:43 PM PDT

    Hmmm.

     

    My first instict as many others is to say no, it is a cesspool.

    However, as has been mentioned there are players who like it, and I can turn it off so is it worth alienating those players? Perhaps the answer is yes to alienating trolls and spammers and stuff lol, but for people that want it to socialize that are not bad actors then I suppose that could hurt subs/retention. Plus we would still see whichever zone chat is the player chosen trade hub (if that's a thing) be the place, but at least that limits the trolls to the most populated zones (they wouldn't waste their time with too small an audience). 

     

    Sure wish we could have a system for moderators in the public chats. I realize VR couldn't afford to staff that and player voting systems are fraught with issues :( 

     

    I would assume player created chats can have mods / ranks / kick, perhaps offering safe haven for people that want to chat without the trolls. 

     

    So that being said, perhaps do:

     

    No default public global channels.

    Player made global chats that can be moderated by players instead. 

    Default zone chats of /shout, /ooc, /auction or trade

    Obviously global guild chat, tells, group chat, and local proximity /say too.

     

     


    This post was edited by GeneralReb at October 9, 2021 1:45 PM PDT
    • 888 posts
    October 9, 2021 9:00 PM PDT
    I think global channels can really help players and can improve social interaction. A global /help is a must-have. Others, devoted to specific subjects (like crafting, RP, Clerics, etc) can help people find a like-minded community. Not everyone who joins goes in already knowing others, and having specific channels can really help them find a home.

    • 1860 posts
    October 10, 2021 6:16 AM PDT

    There will be localized/regional AHs.  Having a global channel would minimize the usefulness of having localized AHs if everyone can just sell globally.

    There are a lot of threads on this topic, mostly relating to global buy/sell channels specifically but its a very similar conversation.

    • 3852 posts
    October 10, 2021 8:43 AM PDT

    "I agree Kellindil is correct of what global chat would become, I also agree with needing the ability to turn it off. However I see a positive in a troll infested global chat. VR has suggested the world will be self goverend, "Reputation Matters". A troll infested Global Chat with the ability to /blacklist the trolls as they reveal themselves (as opposed to turning off the entire chat) might go a long way to help reputation mattering."

     

    Good point. Just as I never use the feature to automatically decline guild invitations (though I will automatically decline duels when I can). I *want* to know what guilds hit players with unsolicited invitations so they can go on my "do not join" list.

     

    "There will be localized/regional AHs.  Having a global channel would minimize the usefulness of having localized AHs if everyone can just sell globally."

     

    Here I am inclided not to agree - though had you used the word "reduce" instead of "minimize" I might well agree. Even with a global chat channel it is likely that the great majority of us will use the auction house just because it is so much easier - and lets us spend our time on-line doing things other than spamming "looking to buy" or "looking to sell" messages. Also, the global channel will likely be used to sell or buy almost exclusively for items in areas where most people are likley to be or for very expensive items worth a trip. A message "Go to Butt Cheeks, only a 15 minute run away, to buy my copper broadsword for 20 copper pieces instead of the usual 25 copper pieces" strikes me as unlikely.

    By the way - you are assuming (quite reasonably) that global chat can and will be used for buying and selling if there is a global chat. This is normal in other MMOs even where there is a separate channel for buying and selling. But if VR puts in a separate channel for buying and selling and instructs us not to use global chat - maybe we won't use global chat. If they occasionally hit violators with suspensions from use of chat. Or if the community is fairly small and most of us vocally diapprove of violators and refuse to buy from or sell to them.

     

     

     

    • 690 posts
    October 10, 2021 2:40 PM PDT

    As long as you can leave it, I see no negative to a global chat. People should be able to spew junk at each other if they want. People should be able to leave that behind for a while or even forever if they want. I want to be able to ask as many pantheon players as possible a question if I dont feel like alt tabbing to the wiki or discord.

    Options shouldn't be taken away as long as they don't cost anything noticable, and don't have any significant negative impact on the experience of people who don't use it.

    As mentioned by dorotea, for an added measure, if you give people special outlets for various undesirable uses of global chat, perhaps they won't use global chat for it.

    • 810 posts
    October 12, 2021 8:48 AM PDT

    DEFAULT Global chats are always the worst of the MMO community.  Breaking up the chats by location, it is always way better. 

    People will join various global channels on their own, but it keeps the cesspool factor out of the default chats and concentrates it to the people who want that sort of experience.   

    • 2419 posts
    October 12, 2021 8:58 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    I agree Kellindil is correct of what global chat would become, I also agree with needing the ability to turn it off. However I see a positive in a troll infested global chat. VR has suggested the world will be self goverend, "Reputation Matters". A troll infested Global Chat with the ability to /blacklist the trolls as they reveal themselves (as opposed to turning off the entire chat) might go a long way to help reputation mattering.

    "Give him enough rope and he will hang himself" Global Chat being the rope.

    Unless the trolls in the channel are just alts with no care at all about their individual reputation. Its easy enough to hide the connection between a global chat channel troll alt and the 'real' character.  I've said it for years, if you are in a large enough guild that is wholly self sufficient and that guild doesn't care about what the server as a whole things about them, this notion of individual reputation mattering is thrown out the window. Your individual reputation only matters when you're on your own and actually need other people.

    • 122 posts
    October 15, 2021 5:30 PM PDT

    So since it was announced in the latest stream that Pantheon's world will be seamless, do you think that a global chat system is more likely?


    This post was edited by Morraak at October 15, 2021 5:31 PM PDT
    • 2419 posts
    October 15, 2021 5:53 PM PDT

    Morraak said:

    So since it was announced in the latest stream that Pantheon's world will be seamless, do you think that a global chat system is more likely?

    Zoneless world doesn't immediately lead to a global chat system.  There can still be areas where, if you're inside it, you only have access to a channel local to that area.  Also, there will still be hard zonelines into/out of dungeons.

    • 392 posts
    October 15, 2021 7:13 PM PDT

    Plenty of other MMOs are seamless zone lines but still dont have global chat.