I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this; do you feel that we, both this community and that at large, are becoming more Pantheon patient?
I'll go first; Yes, I do believe that the community have shown more patience, especially the most recent few months. A few reasons have crossed my mind, but one in particular is the cadence that VR has established with community engagement, announcements and content showcases.
I think it's more likely that people are losing interest and moving on to other things than patience. (That doesn't mean they can't return eventually hopefully).
Participation here seems minimal except right after a stream. Other forums on Pantheon like MMORPG.com have been quiet. Their "most hyped" games poll has seen Pantheon go from being #1 repeatedly for years to dropping down the list, to now it's off the list entirely. There aren't many people who have been following from the beginning that are still around. I think you are mistaking the quiet for patience when it's really people moving on to other things...which is to be expected at this stage. 95% of the people participating now are newer members rehashing the same topics that have already been discussed.
Once Pantheon gets to a more advanced state VR will advertise and hopefully people will return. We just aren't there yet.
Many of us recognize that even if we *feel* impatience it will do no good to the game development or the community if we post comments here that could be taken as negative.
VR is moving as fast as it thinks is appropriately feasible. Urging them to move faster will be useless at best and harmful at worst.
Let's face it - VR would be surprised and disappointed if we didn't want the game to launch as soon as possible. And we do.
We would be surprised and disappointed if they didn't want the game to launch as soon as possible. And they do.
But "possible" still means alpha next year and no launch until 2023 at the earliest.
I remember the day in late 2013 when Brad posted on Twitter a picture of one of his bike's kickstarters as a teaser of what was to come. So yeah, I've been patient.
The game will either release or it won't. And even if it does release, there's no guarantee I will like it. No matter how happy or mad I get about things, that changes zero with the progress, so I just take it in stride and whatever happens will happen.
I still enjoy talking/thinking about Pantheon, so at the very lease I've still gained something from all this.
I am just over it ... At this point (Years) I want the game to be created and simply want to see development progression and play.
The thing is at a certain point in the games development , we have talked about almost every thing imaginable.
At that point I figured most simply check the forums for the one or two new posts every few weeks and call it a day.
Lafael said:I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this; do you feel that we, both this community and that at large, are becoming more Pantheon patient?
I'll go first; Yes, I do believe that the community have shown more patience, especially the most recent few months. A few reasons have crossed my mind, but one in particular is the cadence that VR has established with community engagement, announcements and content showcases.
It depends which community you're in, really. There are a lot of people who just recently (say <2 years) started following Pantheon while at the same time there are quite a number of people who have been here since 2013. Each is handling the progression differently. Yes, some percentage of people have just outright quit following this glacially slow development where nearin 8 years of development still has no alpha on the horizon let alone a release.
One reason why many have gone silent over the years is VR's propensity to outright ban people for being (in VR's self-serving opinion) antagonistic, disrespectful or disruptive. It's difficult to point out VRs lies, misrepresentations, errors or omissions when doing so can get your banned and that your post is flooded by rabid fanbois who think VR does nothing wrong..ever. When VR doesnt want to address a painful truth, it gets swept under the rug by being deleted.
It is only those long timers who can get their point across while skirting the ever changing line of what can be posted who are still around and will stay around.
I think it's the confluence of two things: increasingly transparent, specific updates and being farther along in "visible" development. Game development suffers from a visible progress problem--a whole lot of work has to be done before there's very much that can be shown, so it looks like not much has been done.
If you're building a 10 story building, simply looking at it gives a rough idea of how far along it is. If they're working on the 5th floor, it's easy to see the building as half done. But a game isn't like that. You need to have many elements (art, 3D models, physics, some world build, animations, lighting, etc) built before you can even see a single character walking in game.
I've been around since the early days but only recently pledged. I kept a finger on the pulse of the project though it has been mainly the past 2 years since I've become more engaged. So perhaps not being hardcore invested since the early days has helped keep my interest going.
I think these forums may change once alpha becomes a reality.
philo said:I think it's more likely that people are losing interest and moving on to other things than patience. (That doesn't mean they can't return eventually hopefully).
I second this and agree with Philo here. People have moved on because the game is moving at a snail pace. Hopefully when this game comes out in 7 plus years they'll come back. I'm not holding my breath. Alpha will give it a bump for a little bit, but VR will waste that bump and keep on acting like they have 20 years to finish this game. VR = three steps forward two steps back. Repeat.
Iksar said:You got proof on that? I can think of only a couple people who were banned or had threads removed for their behavior in many years.
No, he doesn't. I am the only one who bans people and only do so in extreme cases or repeated rule breaks with numerous warnings given first. Posts only get removed if they break the guidelines which are on the users to make sure they read, understand and follow.
Vandraad has had more than his fair share of warnings and I bet if it was any other community, he would have been banned by now, especially with taunting posts like this. Luckily for him, I am a fair person and only act when the rules are broken and not when someone insults me or the company.
Back to the topic at hand, this is a great question and as the CM I have definitely seen a change in patience over the years. Managing expectations and excitement is tough too but you folks are amazing and the best community I have ever been a part of or managed! <3
I'm not sure if it's a case of the community becoming more patient or not, there's definitely a select few who are becoming/have become impatient. It could be that some people are just naturally more patient in all regards than others. Maybe we just have a majority of pledgers that are naturally more patient? Most people, I think, are okay with checking in to see the updates and streams, and then letting the devs do their thing. I know I always look forward to the streams and newsletters but I also have other things like my own goals I want to attain, work, and there's always other games that I want to play (looking at you Elden Ring) :D
I am not sure if I have become more or less patient. I agree with dorotea in that I try to keep my posts helpful and see no advantage of expressing my impatience. It also helps Pantheon that no other MMO is even close to interesting me. If one did come along, I could see me just walking away. But that is why I am so excited about Pantheon no other developers are making MMO’s I am interested in anymore.
Years ago there were good MMO’s. Now I beg you to help me in my struggle to find a new great MMO. I regret that I am unable to convey my request to you in person, but I am just not going too. I'm afraid my mission to find any other good MMO has failed. This is my most desperate hour. Help me, Visionary Realms. You're my only hope.
Kilsin, feel free to close/remove this thread. The intention was for a more positive discussion but alas.
"Maybe New World releasing will help me be patient"
Not me. An action combat game with a heavy focus on pvp is precisely what I do not want.
Vander - there are ways to express suggestions that things be done differently that do not attack the person you are talking about and you have gone well beyond mere attack into harshness and nastiness. I suspect I have been a lawyer a lot longer than you and with a specialty in trying to persuade people to do what my clients wanted, Yours is not the right way.
I'm still a big Pantheon fan, but have lost a little of the enthusiasm lately. So for the OP, who asked a really good and fair question, I think we are a little less patient. I'm sure it, patience, will come back again, but real life intervenes somewhat with its stress.
I have to say I'm really a good deal disappointed in the vitriol in this thread. Quite surprising from this community frankly. I DO think both the Discord and this board have been moderated very fairly...I've been a Mod for a few websites, the most recent a Fiat X1/9 site of all things (my car below) ...and the leeways and flexibility given by the VR staff to some specific posters is far beyond what I would have given. So sincere kudos to them!
I just saw Dave's/Roenick's post on October VR events and while I'm truly happy that it looks really good, and that the communications/marketing is out there and early...I had hoped for some Testing session news. Hope it's soon, it is really the only time (coupled with my subsequent feedback) that I really feel I'm contributing at all to the success of this game.
I'm not more patient, I'm not less patient. I'm still looking at every improvements with a good eye and keeping criticism when needed in a constructive way.
I'm simply not participating most discussions because, as stated earlier, most things have already been discussed in previous years, and even previous to my registration here. I participated to thoses that came new to me, and I do not want to repeat the same thing over over because it's pointless and might age me earlier.
I'm still backing up VR as much as I can, and waiting for the game to enter a development phase I can participate to, until then I just keep myself in touch with progress while getting bored on other games with less long term goals and effects.
As others, I'm also fed up of the very same persons cycling years after years with their big ego speechs of "I know better" and "It will be a failure" or "My liberty is hindered in a private area I do not own" while still beeing here, complaining, taunting, dauting and harassing the staff every occasion that is possible to them.
Because sadly, the VR team beeing the central plot of the game's development, they catch all the attention for the better and for the worse. It's human, toxic and counter productive, but strictly human and can be observed on every platform you can. Every forum has it's agressive ghost of some sort, coming back and forth with hauting phrases of "I said so years ago and by twisting facts I can barely pretend to have been right, at least to my own concious".
Strangely besides having a grudge against toxics, egocentrics and agressive players, I had at best one warning due to beeing hot heated over close to 4 years while still keeping a neutral to positive attitude, even if I'm not agreeing on things, even if I do feel it's slow because it is but with reasons.
Perhaps it's because when I have something I do not agree with, I'm not calling people out or harassing them in topics barely related to the subject. I'm not taking every occasion to rant and wave to get attention. I'm just not making things that are counter efficient to be heard or told.
Basically I'm just keeping civil.
So yep, still patient, still craving for the game, but in an adult and self controled way.
Lafael said: I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this; do you feel that we, both this community and that at large, are becoming more Pantheon patient?
I don't know if the forums have gotten more patient or not. I mostly agree with Philo. More of the IMpatient ones have likely moved on over time than the patient ones.
I know I've personally become more patient and averse to heated arguments. Mostly because I really don't want to be a PITA who stirs up anger and bad feelings and regularly gets moderated. I'm also sure that the time I spend in political discussions elsewhere on the internet has been a major factor in my 'evolution' as well. (those discussions are magnitudes more hostile than these forums)
I agree strongly with Nagasakee, Mauvais_Oeil and others expressing similar thoughts (nice car Nagasakee). Though my opinion probably doesn't count with many, since I'm undoubtedly a fanboy.
I'm not bothered.
I made my own assumptions about this when I signed up. I thought the very first announcement and the - things- being offered to "kick" this into action, with Brad's name attached didn't feel right. EQ next was in the wings and the torture that was a 4 hour live stream of someone creating a ball, made me glad the initial Pantheon "kick" allowed a restructuring because then things seemed to feel right. At that poiint I knew, if it's just me (and maybe some like me) it will take a long time IF they wanted to keep to the tennents- the NEW tennents. My concern was how to keep the enthusiasm going from my side of the screen. Because what I couldn't do in practical funding I hoped to make up for in spiritual encouragement.
So, time is what I do have. And I do what I can but its not breaking me and I expect a determined pace, it doesn't bother me.
But the forums are nice and the streams are nice and there are some smart people on here- when they choose to chime in (and I wish they would more often)- that have expertise in varous things discussed and I find it interesting toi hear their views on game development, coding, logic strings, merch, crypto, FTL's, Graphic Design, even volunteer piece work provided Ben doesnt get in a snit about legal nonsense like labor laws.