Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - Travel

    • 9115 posts
    September 20, 2021 3:39 AM PDT

    Community Debate - Travel - What are your favourite methods to travel around in MMORPG worlds and what methods of travel are you looking forward to in Pantheon? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    • 724 posts
    September 20, 2021 4:40 AM PDT

    My favorite method by far is flying - IMO there's just no better way to experience the full scale and beauty of a world. Or gliding (loved the gliders in Archeage!), if there is no true flight available, but that would probably only be used for short distances. Levitating (like in EQ) is also great for those classes that can use it.

    Traveling by mount is nice, but I hope for immersive mounts (no cars please..). Traveling by foot with a speed buff is OK too, but basic running often feels too slow IMO.

    Traveling by boat (or horse cart ride, again like Archeage) along fixed routes is ok, but often feels limited. If there's something interesting along the way, I want to be able to stop and take a look. Now you can usually jump off a boat/horse cart, but normally you cannot jump back on, so that's your travel method lost if you do so...

    And the long distance travel by portal (spell), this is great of course for the classes who can use it. There were talks of portals usable by everyone between cities at some point (I don't know if this is still in consideration), but I would hope that you could not just use these from anywhere (but instead had to get to a portal site first and use it from there).

    • 220 posts
    September 20, 2021 5:03 AM PDT

    Off the beaten path on foot. 

     

    • 422 posts
    September 20, 2021 5:17 AM PDT

    Static public timed transports. Boats that run on a schedule that players can board and use to travel between land masses. Overland carrages that are scheduled and public. I love to see transportation between major areas being a part of the world. I love seeing people need to wait for the boat or carrage to take them where they need to go. It makes the world feel more real to me.

    I dislike any type of flight. It makes the world feel smaller. Automated flight points do the same. So I also want to see traveling by foot the major way to get around. No mounts, no flight points, no static teleportals. Just good ol fashioned legging it! I love when travel becomes it's own adventure. Going from one point in the game world to another should be a valid and productive game session.

    • 83 posts
    September 20, 2021 6:01 AM PDT

    I think travelling by foot should be the only available form of travel (runspeed buffs are of course welcome) at launch. The first contact with the game should be based on immersion, discovering, travelling, exploring... working our way through the landscape (WITH map, yes I am a pro-map guy) ! The world will be new, let's unveil it : take your backpack and your staff :-) Levitate is a topic to be discussed, it really depends how it is implemented.

    Alternative ways of travelling should be kept for later stages of the game, released with expansions for example, as a tactical asset for the developpers when they need to create something new.

    Flying should be avoided, it trivializes content so easily - imagine if you could fly in EQ, what would have been the point of creating Kithicor Forrest ... ? 

    • 1281 posts
    September 20, 2021 6:23 AM PDT

    Classes having spells that can offer speed enhancement buffs, teleporting, summoning. All of those require interacting with other players.

    Some places should require the player to have visited there by foot first before able to teleport with another player (if their class can teleport groups).


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at September 20, 2021 6:25 AM PDT
    • 2419 posts
    September 20, 2021 7:03 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - Travel - What are your favourite methods to travel around in MMORPG worlds and what methods of travel are you looking forward to in Pantheon? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    If by land then it is only on foot or by limited teleportation.  If by water then a player controlled boat.  NO ground mounds, no auto-magic boats and definitely no flying mounts of any kind.

    • 63 posts
    September 20, 2021 7:04 AM PDT

    At launch for a new MMO I prefer walking only, and as mentioned above movement buffs are welcome.  Classes with telport buffs are acceptable too at mid to higher levels.  At some point in a MMOs lifespawn mounts and static teleports are acceptable too, but I am never a fan of flying mounts. As others have mentioned it makes the world feel small and less dangerous.

    • 2138 posts
    September 20, 2021 7:10 AM PDT

    walking is not bad if its designed properly, if you've walked in major cities or old established european cities you get the idea. for walkiing I think the view/environment has to change to be engaging

    Running same thing, but I think the path needs to change, has to be interactivet- constantly turning or paying attention to the environment

    If there are ports I think they should be limited and few, 

    Just wanted to add, Once you gain familiarity with a place, it no longer takes the same amount of time to traverse it, it takes less time because you know the way.

    Regarding friends wanting to play different races and not being able to play together, this might actually be a good thing because none of them will know hoe to mplay their race/class and wil need that time ( levels 1-5? ) to learn and then from which to travel, just once, and the team experiences its own story dealing with faction differences, sleeping/camping arangements, scheduling etc. They deal with it.


    This post was edited by Manouk at September 21, 2021 8:49 PM PDT
    • 14 posts
    September 20, 2021 7:30 AM PDT
    I think EverQuest pre mounts had it right. Teleports and translocation, bard speed, and spirit of the wolf. That's it. Without those, you're walking. Traveling is where adventure happens.
    • 134 posts
    September 20, 2021 7:32 AM PDT

    I'm definitely against carriages/horse taxis/fixed boats. The only time I've had a game world "feel small" is when you can just hop on a horse or carriage or whatever and then AFK until you reach your destination. If there's no danger then  it's kind of pointless to make a player wait in that scenario, you might as well have teleports. And when it comes to travel between continents, fixed boat routes always end up being janky. Either give us a boat/water mount to control ourselves (or even better make us buy/quest for them) or put up teleports that only take us halfway and then we have to run across a dangerous island to get to the next teleporter. If the only danger of a fixed boat route is that it might unceremoniously dump you into the ocean for no reason whatsoever, then I'd rather just teleport straight to my destination. A boat lagging out and leaving me for dead is going to kill my "immersion" way faster than not having them. Even teleporting to an Ocean of Tears type zone, then having to wait for a boat to sail you all the way across the ocean to an island where you take another teleporter (in order to avoid the boat itself zoning) goes back to the carriage scenario. I'd rather be forced to swim or discover that I can earn a water walking mount from the locals.

    That being said, a short ferry between islands/across a river within the continent itself is a different story.

    • 55 posts
    September 20, 2021 10:11 AM PDT

    I think this is one of those topics no matter what the devs choose, it'll be wrong. The player base is so divided, too fast, too slow, too easy, too hard, mounts, no mounts, flying mounts. They all have their place, but they all can't exist together.

     

    Personally, I love the freedom of mounts, especially flying mounts. Flying gives a view just not achievable from the ground, even if just pre-planned flight paths. I am pretty sure some form of fast travel will be available, probably via spell. I don't see how having some additional travel paths would be such a terrible thing, they don't have to be flying. There will need to be ship paths anyway for travel between continents, relying only on teleportation would be a game killer for solo players and a hinderance for everyone without a pocket porter during off peak times.

     

    While I understand the need to keep the game feeling large, and travel meaningful, spending 2 hours travelling from your hometown to a dungeon isn't practical, or fun. Sure, it's great to take in the sights, explore. But if you have a group waiting, they don't want to sit doing nothing for 2 hours. If LFG shows you too far away, they won't even bother asking. This isn't a request for instant poof to dungeon abilities, there has to be some way to cross great distances in real time, where people have jobs, and families. I know some will say to pre-plan and travel to the dungeon the day before, or plan adventures nearby, but that seems to shrink the game a lot more than fast travel. In RL, people rarely travel more than 50 miles from home, lets not repeat that in game.

    • 392 posts
    September 20, 2021 11:25 AM PDT

    I like when theres a mix of things, most of the world should be done by foot with scattered teleport points for mages/druids.

    Thoguh I wouldnt mind some automated things like boats or caravans as long as you need to wait for it and not just spawn it from an NPC. player piloted ones would be cool too.

    Also dont think mounts should be as giant of a speed boost as we've seen and have it reserved as more of a status thing for your e-peen.

    As for flying itd be okay if it was locked to a plane of sky type zone with the mounts built for it but would be just as happy wihtout it.

    • 888 posts
    September 20, 2021 1:19 PM PDT

    Most enjoyable would be if there were some kind of Spirit World, where our characters would appear as sime kind of spirit avatar (and each looks different,  based on things done in-game). This would be a single zone with a distinct  underworld feel.  Game locations would correspond to  Convergences.  You could enter by going to a convergence point or by a Shaman casting a spell on you.   This Spirit World would be have a social gathering location and be the only place you can buy spirit-themed consumables.

     

    Most enjoyable to  experience viscerally is flying., but it makes the world seem small so the trade-off is unlikely to be wirth it. 

     

    Best overall is to have some slow,  automated travel along major travel routes. It could be made more interesting  if you need to occasionally defend the caravan,.  Flight could be fun if you often crashed somewhere random (level appropriate)  and had to fight your way back to safety. 

    • 150 posts
    September 20, 2021 1:22 PM PDT

    Byproducts said:

    I'm definitely against carriages/horse taxis/fixed boats. The only time I've had a game world "feel small" is when you can just hop on a horse or carriage or whatever and then AFK until you reach your destination. If there's no danger then  it's kind of pointless to make a player wait in that scenario, you might as well have teleports. And when it comes to travel between continents, fixed boat routes always end up being janky. Either give us a boat/water mount to control ourselves (or even better make us buy/quest for them) or put up teleports that only take us halfway and then we have to run across a dangerous island to get to the next teleporter. If the only danger of a fixed boat route is that it might unceremoniously dump you into the ocean for no reason whatsoever, then I'd rather just teleport straight to my destination. A boat lagging out and leaving me for dead is going to kill my "immersion" way faster than not having them. Even teleporting to an Ocean of Tears type zone, then having to wait for a boat to sail you all the way across the ocean to an island where you take another teleporter (in order to avoid the boat itself zoning) goes back to the carriage scenario. I'd rather be forced to swim or discover that I can earn a water walking mount from the locals.

    That being said, a short ferry between islands/across a river within the continent itself is a different story.

    What if the autopilot ship were large enough, think Maiden's Voyage (Ruins of Kunark), that it could provide plenty of content to discover while on the journey (with the time cut down from the 30-45 minute route of the olden days)? The mast and crow's nest could require medium-high climbing skill, with a quest requiring players reach the top. What if players swimming in the ocean could grab onto a passing ship and climb aboard? Barnacles on the hull could attract harvesters, either when the ship docked momentarily or during its comings and goings. Also, what if weather and climate effects could interfere with players while aboard a ship, such as prevailing winds blowing them overboard unless they remained below deck or were properly acclimated? What if game and tradeskill stations were included on ships to make the journey more engaging/productive?

    • 19 posts
    September 20, 2021 1:35 PM PDT
    Flying = Never
    I'm going to throw out some crazy ideas on land traveling.
     
    The issues with portals between the major cities are that it makes the world so much smaller. There is no need for boats and limits wizard/druid tps.
    The issue with not having portals between major cities is when a group of friends want to make chars together and then play together... They are forced to play a race/class that starts close by.
     
    What if.. The portals only work on player level 1-10 or free for 1-10 and increases in cost for every X amount of levels.
     
    The issues with ground mounts are that they are often way too strong and makes even the hardest zones no longer scary. /auto run and afk
    The issue with not having ground mounts is walking for 15-20 mins in a level 1 zone, when you are max level, trying to join your friends in a zone 3 zones away.
     
    What if.... You could only summon your mount when you out level the zone/area you are currently in. That might be hard since the level range for most zones are so wide.
     
    If you can't limit the use of ground mounts in challenging zones, then I vote for no ground mounts. 
    • 134 posts
    September 20, 2021 1:39 PM PDT

    Leevolen said:

    What if the autopilot ship were large enough, think Maiden's Voyage (Ruins of Kunark), that it could provide plenty of content to discover while on the journey (with the time cut down from the 30-45 minute route of the olden days)? The mast and crow's nest could require medium-high climbing skill, with a quest requiring players reach the top. What if players swimming in the ocean could grab onto a passing ship and climb aboard? Barnacles on the hull could attract harvesters, either when the ship docked momentarily or during its comings and goings. Also, what if weather and climate effects could interfere with players while aboard a ship, such as prevailing winds blowing them overboard unless they remained below deck or were properly acclimated? What if game and tradeskill stations were included on ships to make the journey more engaging/productive?

     

    That's one of those things that makes you go "neat" the first time and might take 2 or 3 trips to do but afterwords what then? You go below decks to get out of the storm and then AFK until you hear the bell announcing it's time to get off.

    Being able to get onto the ship from the water would be good, but it's presumably going to be much faster than you so it's not going to be a practical matter.

    Grabbing barnacles off the bottom would be a nice touch, though. Although I definitely forsee a crowd of peeps just sitting at the docks waiting for the boat so they can scrape off the barnacles but aren't actually going anywhere lol.

    But really I'd just prefer there to be interesting content in the ocean and more engaging methods of going between it. What if the ocean is just another zone I can move across the same way I move across the continent, just with swimming or controllable water mounts? Gotta dodge sharks instead of bandits.

    • 122 posts
    September 20, 2021 5:00 PM PDT

    MFR1 said:

     
    What if.... You could only summon your mount when you out level the zone/area you are currently in. That might be hard since the level range for most zones are so wide.
     
    If you can't limit the use of ground mounts in challenging zones, then I vote for no ground mounts. 

    The thing with that is VR plans on you not being able to out level an area.  As far as I know they want there to be places in a zone for all different types of level characters.  I would personally just choose not to have mounts.  I think EQ1 pre-mounts had it right.  Speed buffs helped with getting to places within the continent you were on while teleports and boats helped with intercontinental travel.  I personally enjoyed the downtime with boat rides too, if Pantheon is as intense as I think it will be with combat then a little downtime will be good too.  Kind of like with zones needing spaces filled with content as well as negative space, it's all about striking a good balance.

    • 810 posts
    September 20, 2021 5:46 PM PDT
    My favorite form of travel are things like boats or wagons where you sit down and take in the nice planned view. NPC tells you about the destination or tells you to keep your eyes peeled for the local gang or other lore.

    My least favorite form of travel are teleports. More and more we see instant travel everywhere. People want instant entertainment and reward instead of RPing an adventure which includes some logistics. Even in dnd I am a big fan of teleportation circle to teleportation circle where you have heavy restrictions.
    • 252 posts
    September 20, 2021 10:21 PM PDT

    I like the idea of foot only and mounts with a realistic speed boost, but nothing crazy.  But, for me, that requires content to be close to you. If you have to travel halfway across the zone and back for a single quest, that should be an epic journey with a requisite reward. But for a single play session, most of what you do should be close to you.  Yes, sometimes you will need to travel overland to get to a dungeon and group up, but once there, you should be motivated not to leave for some time, maybe even several play sessions. So the journey there should be epic, the stay should be epic, and the journey back should be epic.

    There are a few things that annoy me in MMOs that I hope you avoid. 

    1. Any playable class with wings should be able to fly, anywhere. Exceptions could be weather, or aerial mobs that make flying no better an option than walking. I know you don't have any of these classes yet, but who knows what will happen in the future.

    2. If NPCs can have flying mounts, than players should be able to as well. If you aren't going to have flight for PCs, don't have flying mounts for NPCs.

    • 326 posts
    September 20, 2021 10:44 PM PDT

     

    On foot, smelling the flowers and keeping an eye and ear open for hostiles. Finding caves and ruins, etc.. is where it's at. Really looking forward to lore and perception pings out I the world.

    • 200 posts
    September 21, 2021 2:36 AM PDT

    Hi, i like the fast travel system in WoW Vanilla/Classic. You could fly between two static points. It was fast, you could see much of the scenery but it was not a free flight. So you could not skip content by simply overflying it.

     

    Cheers

    • 3852 posts
    September 21, 2021 8:01 AM PDT

    I take this opportunity to point out that travel by mount or boat is often used to allow fast travel and bypassing of content but it does not *have* to be this way. 

    One less common approach would be to allow mounts but only upon achieving something significant (maximum level or completion of an epic questline) and with the mount speed either the same as foot speed (a case of gameplay overcoming realism) or at a maximum no faster than the fastest character runspeed buff. Perhaps with an automatic dismount if attacked. 

    Boat can also be artifically slow or limited to certain locations where faster speed does not affect game play. For example travel from a starter city on an island to the mainland or travel from an island with housing to the mainland. The island not necessarily in an ocean but perhaps in a lake.

    • 2752 posts
    September 21, 2021 10:19 AM PDT

    Selo's Accelerando. 

     

    Also set route boats like EQ, as long as there is an "ocean" zone where you can learn different points to jump off and swim (or levitate) to locations. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at September 21, 2021 10:20 AM PDT
    • 55 posts
    September 21, 2021 1:16 PM PDT

    Lotro has mounts. If the mount gets hit, it takes damage, if the mount takes too much damage, you're walking again. And it doesn't take much to get dismounted. Even with the store bought speed package, you can't run through high level areas or afk travel without getting dismounted.

     

    All the stop and smell the roses, look around explore arguments work the first, fifth, maybe 10th time you run through an area, what about the 100th? the 500th?