Grimseethe said: mounts are vital, without them any MMO is lacking without them... Source: wow, eso and every mmo ever.
Darch said: I do believe that mounts are a necessity in any MMO that lasts longer than a couple of years. It is a vital part of every successful MMO
I just have to start with a bit of history. Asheron's Call ran for over 17 years. While it didn't get as big as WoW or EQ, it was an outstanding success as a game and a business by any standards. It spawned a sequel. It has a legion of fans who play it today on emulators. It never had mounts of any kind.
I rode a mount in Vanguard and a flying mount in WoW, because they were already in the game.
I am against Pantheon having any mounts that increase a player's speed of travel or give any advantage in combat.
I have no problem with entirely cosmetic mounts that travel no faster than the player would travel on foot. My caveats to that would be that the mounts would fit the lore. Also that they would respect immersion. (meaning I don't want 37 varieties of skins that make an adventuring group look like a circus coming to town)
I have no problem with some type of creature that carries surplus gear and loot, as long as there are some costs that balanced the benefits. I'd prefer it not to be rideable. Brad's 'pack mule' as described by Vandraad sounds like a great idea.
@Jothany - I agree with everything you said there, but everyone in Asheron's call had the ability to increase their own speed and every viable character build had at least 50 quickness. Asheron's Call also has teleporting anywhere at any time from house to house or guild mansions. There is more fast travel in AC than I would ever want to see in PRotF.
But like you said, WoW was successful with mounts because the game was originally designed with "land" mounts in mind and it wasn't an afterthought that changed the entire mechanics of the game. (The flying mounts are a different story... but the game world was massive by the time flying mounts came out and could only be used in ceratin areas).
I am also against PRotF increasing player speed more than what a buff could do, or giving any "advantage" to combat.
Jothany said:Grimseethe said: They have no negative effect towards a game at all, affecting not pvp or anything else.I'm sorry my friend, but that is not correct. There have been plenty of threads discussing mounts and the 'negative effect' they can have. Here are 2 of the biggest ones, if you want to learn what those effects are.
https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2605/mounts/view/page/1
sadly anyone saying mounts have negative affects are wrong, i wish i had more time, but basically there is a compramise for anything that could be considered negative, simple work arounds that most gamers cant think of, but they exist.
Sorry everyone that i cant reply to all your comments and help yuu see clearer, i dont have time and im trying to be better, in MMOs after 23 years i have no friends, im trying to not be myself.
I think having run speed adjusted (positively or negatively) based on a stat is something to consider. It would like players focus gear on that stat if they want the ability to run fast. If they decide to switch focus to another area, like HP or AC, they just switch gear again. Great way to handle the issue without requiring 'respec' systems.
This idea came to me while watching people bicker about whether or not mounts should be in the game and I suppose I should go ahead and write it down while it's fresh. Feel free to critique it.
How I could personally envision a mount system in Pantheon is primarily as a late-game one-way travelling system with some prestige and opportunities for collectors. It goes as follows:
Acquisition:
To acquire a mount, a druid or ranger must first go through an epic questline to acquire the "Tame Mount" ability.
Then, you need to group with that druid or ranger and have them tame a mount for you.
Then, you must lead the mount back to a stable that is located at towns or cities around the map.
If you die on the way, then the mount despawns.
Upon getting to the stable, your tamed mount can be stored within the stable.
(Yes, I turned mount acquisition into a player driven escort quest, fight me)
Function:
Faster than SoW, but not obscenely fast.
Mount Storage is locked to people below a certain level.
You can only access your mounts and mount them from within the stables.
While mounted you would have free roam to travel any outdoor location accessible on foot, but NPC control spells will dismount you.
You cannot cast spells, fight, climb, or swim while mounted.
Upon dismounting the mount would then run out of view and despawn in a fashion similar to what's planned for Ranger animals.
To remount, you would need to return to a stable on foot.
I think a system like that would be a good compromise between the mounters and the no-mounters.
The mount storage can even have gold sinks incorporated into it.
It gives people something engaging to do endgame.
There could be cool mounts from high level areas that would require groups of players to escort back to the stables for extra bragging rights, maybe even higher speed bonuses.
Since you can only mount from stables and the mount leaves upon being dismounted, it would provide a travel option without making the world feel too small.
It builds on the world as much as it detracts from it.
It promotes social interraction and class identity.
I did not like the ashes of creation mounts/animal husbandry system as some of the creatures are too strange to behold. This is not my portrayal of epic fantasy, more like Dragons of Autumn Twilight. If Pantheon *does* add mounts, a good idea would be to keep them canon, for instance a steed for a paladin, or a nightmare for a dire lord. For an ogre warrior, no ground mounts below a wyrmling. For dwarves/elves/humans...worgs/unicorns, etc. Please let us not mismatch their heads/bodies/shoulders/necks/legs/genitalia into a thousand different combinations and think of witty names for each one.
~OmegaBeam
-Black Rose Pledge
Given the option of some advanced mounting system they would spend months on or no mounts I would go with no mounts.
I like the idea of having the boring generic mounts where a horse is a horse whether it is brown, white, etc. I am only concerned with the problem mounts bring to the world, but that problem only exists when NPCs will attack your character. We will eventually be running 10+ minutes through a world where we are effective gods due to levels. I am not a fan of that. The problems mounts create are people using mounts in areas they are not gods in. There are ways to more or less lock mounts to safe areas, but I personally would like to see mounts simply die. You tried to train with your mount? Well now you have to buy a new mount. You tried running through high level content with a mount but failed to be safe? Buy a new mount! People should be afraid of burning gold by using mounts where the player is at risk. It will self regulate and be a massive gold sink for the impatient people.
Realistically, it's not a matter of opinion or choice when it comes to the mount system. I'm pretty sure the world of Terminus will be a vast place to navigate and explore on your own leasure.
Whether people will ever have difference of opinion or someone thinks it is or is not a flawed system, I think it's a matter of perspective. If someone that doesn't want a mount system in the game have still a deliberate choice to not choose to ride a mount. I think that's the real choice of the matter. And for those that choose to get places because they prefer not to travel long distances because of a matter of timing or just preference, can still choose to do so.
I couldn't imagine where mounts wouldn't be a thing in a medieval game lol... just saying >:)
I think mounts should be:
Grimseethe said:I'm trying to be better, in MMOs after 23 years i have no friends, im trying to not be myself.
Wow man. I can't help but feel bad for you. You can pm me if you need someone to listen.
Grimseethe said:Jothany said:Grimseethe said: They have no negative effect towards a game at all, affecting not pvp or anything else.I'm sorry my friend, but that is not correct. There have been plenty of threads discussing mounts and the 'negative effect' they can have. Here are 2 of the biggest ones, if you want to learn what those effects are.
https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2605/mounts/view/page/1
sadly anyone saying mounts have negative affects are wrong, i wish i had more time, but basically there is a compramise for anything that could be considered negative, simple work arounds that most gamers cant think of, but they exist.
Sorry everyone that i cant reply to all your comments and help yuu see clearer, i dont have time and im trying to be better, in MMOs after 23 years i have no friends, im trying to not be myself.
Feel free to add me as friends, bro. I'm always looking forward to hanging out and making friends. :)
Grimseethe: sadly anyone saying mounts have negative affects are wrong
I always think it is a little condescending when people put up such statements without backup of any kind. If there was no real issue, then threads (such as this and plenty of others) would not be so vocal. Because this issue is raised so often and there are people for and against mounts, then there are definitely good things and bad things with them, otherwise, everyone would agree.
The two biggest issues I have is that:
1. Mounts allow you to by-pass intended content - Bad.
2. Mounts allow you to run away from mobs with impunity - Bad.
Now you do go on to say that work arounds can be put in place to negate the negative and make them positives(!), but these are not simple and dont exist in games I played. I am free to fly over mobs and run away to my heart's content, with impunity. I dont get knocked off or snared or chased for any distance worth mentioning. I agree that work arounds can be put into play, but they have to be implemented game side otherwise mounts can be a real issue for how the game is generally designed to be played.
Fixes:
1. Content should make it as difficult to navigate around on mount-back as it is on foot. I.e. make the content as full for mount based travel as for foot based. Mobs in the air, fights in the air (with possibility of being knocked off, maybe), mobs on horseback, fights on horseback.
2. Allow mobs to snare horses and allow archers to attach ropes to arrows to pull down flying mounts. If you have mounts, the adventure should be as dangerous as not having them.
Mounts could be slowed when going through dense undergrowth or wood or swamp or storms (which could bring their own problems). There is so much that could be done, but it requires planning, thought and development. I can see mounts being in game and they could be great, but they should be a part of the adventure (with their own skill lines, game based advantages and disadvantages) rather than just a way to safely travel from A to B in the quickest amount of time.
There are plenty of ways, limited only by imagination, how mounts could be helpful in the game. One example might be be how FFXI did it in the levels before you could tame your own choco. Once you have completed a zone / reached max level for the zone / another such measure which determines that the zone no longer presents a challenge - then introduce the ability to hire a mount to get you from A to B, only for that zone. Or you could do it the other way round - have a personal mount which 'is too scared to come into a zone unless it feels safe ' (i.e. when the zone no longer presents a challenge). You could also adjust run speed ofthe mount such that it runs slower and more cautiously in zones closer to character level, so they can't outrun mobs in at level or level+ zones.
Any number of solutions.
I see nothing wrong with breeding and cross breeding to get different flavours which can be distinctive to a player's style. You can of course restrict such that all these are for personal use only.
Personally I don't see a problem with mounts; I think you guys are at risk of disappearing up your own backsides in analysis. It's not really immersive or hardcore to have time only to log in and run from one place to another and that's your session for the day. That's just silly and impractical and will turn people off the game.
Idrial: Personally I don't see a problem with mounts; I think you guys are at risk of disappearing up your own backsides in analysis. It's not really immersive or hardcore to have time only to log in and run from one place to another and that's your session for the day. That's just silly and impractical and will turn people off the game.
Just because you dont agree with a point of view doesnt mean you have a right to be rude to those with that view. Disagree all you want but keep it constructive.
Pantheon has stated that it is not geared for short play sessions or specifically for the casual player (and has been stated a number of times). Making content trivial to get to, lessens the adventure and reduces the percieved size of the world. It may well turn off those that expect an easy ride, but then the game has been built for a specific customer that is not looking to have everything given on a silver platter. If mounts are in game, they should be part of the world and affected by it, not immune to it and not there to bypass content.
chenzeme said:Idrial: Personally I don't see a problem with mounts; I think you guys are at risk of disappearing up your own backsides in analysis. It's not really immersive or hardcore to have time only to log in and run from one place to another and that's your session for the day. That's just silly and impractical and will turn people off the game.
Just because you dont agree with a point of view doesnt mean you have a right to be rude to those with that view. Disagree all you want but keep it constructive.
Pantheon has stated that it is not geared for short play sessions or specifically for the casual player (and has been stated a number of times). Making content trivial to get to, lessens the adventure and reduces the percieved size of the world. It may well turn off those that expect an easy ride, but then the game has been built for a specific customer that is not looking to have everything given on a silver platter. If mounts are in game, they should be part of the world and affected by it, not immune to it and not there to bypass content.
They have said numerous times that you can get things accomplished in two hours; even Brad stated that in a few of his streams before he passed. I would like to see evidence to the contrary in where that has suddenly been taken out of the equation. I'm genuinely curious because I can't find them saying that anywhere.
I'm a big fan of mounts. I especially liked the mount as pack animal. Now that it's not a thing I really think it's a missed opportunity.
A mount could be available via quest at a specific level (25?)
I am all for a mount that can't gallop faster than SOBW. With a sprint ability like a PC.
A mount should need to be fed, and housed.
id like a mount that can be armored.
A PC can be attacked while mounted.
I see very little chance there will be mounts in game, but they'd be fun.
Questaar said:I see very little chance there will be mounts in game, but they'd be fun.
then VR is going to need to make some edits to their FAQ
WILL THERE BE MOUNTS AND OTHER WAYS TO INCREASE A PLAYER’S TRAVEL SPEED?
Yes, there will be a variety of mounts, as well as spells and abilities that can be obtained which increase travel speed. Players will also be able to acquire items for their characters that allow them to climb vertical surfaces.
sorry about the font size.. on my phone and that's just copy and pasted from the faq... I'm not yelling I promise. There, that's better
This post was edited by Zorkon at January 18, 2022 5:59 AM PST
OCastitatisLilium: They have said numerous times that you can get things accomplished in two hours; even Brad stated that in a few of his streams before he passed. I would like to see evidence to the contrary in where that has suddenly been taken out of the equation. I'm genuinely curious because I can't find them saying that anywhere.
Two hour play sessions are not short or casual? If you can spare two hours to play, then getting around without mounts is not a big deal. I agree with what you are saying regarding Pantheon's target session lengths, but two hours is not a casual undertaking.. Regardless, my point is that the more you are able to bypass content, the less important that content becomes and makes the game world that much smaller. It becomes another case of getting to the target as quickly as possible without regard for that game world. It makes content, less. It makes the journey, less.
I am not against mounts. I am against fast travel for the sake of bypassing the game world to get to "choice" areas as quickly as possible.
chenzeme said: Two hour play sessions are not short or casual
philo said:
chenzeme said: Two hour play sessions are not short or casual
I think this is where the disconnect in your discussion is. Most experienced MMORPG players would consider a 2 hour window of playtime short. It becomes even more restrictive when you have to form a group and travel to a dungeon and play through part of that dungeon all within a 2 hour window. VR has always said they want players to be able to have a sense of accomplishment or be able to achieve something in a 2 hr session. That is directed at casual players.
Yeah, I totally disagree with you. It is not a disconnet in my argument, it is a difference in what we see as casual. Dropping in for 15 to 30 mins upto maybe an hour's play is casual. 2 hour is a minimum for standard play for mmo (imo). I cannot find the post, but VR have stated this, regardless this is not a game for the casual player.