Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Locked classes

    • 609 posts
    September 10, 2021 7:31 AM PDT

    I always enjoyed content unlocked with player (account) progression - available to people that spend enough time in game to gain "bragging rights" - something more than piece of gear. What do you think about classes locked under specific conditions - like level-capping 3 characters, conquering all (current/specific) raid bosses, etc.?

    • 52 posts
    September 10, 2021 7:39 AM PDT

    I don't think that's a good fit for Pantheon, at least not at launch. It's not a Rogue-like where you're intended to play the same levels over and over again and get a little further each time. 

    It would also create some very nasty negative experience if you're looking super forward to playing the Summoner only to realize it's locked behind progression. Pantheon is supposed to take months to progress to max level, per the devs, and having your favorite character class locked behind months of playtime would not be great.

    It would be better to lock character progression behind player progression, which they've done somewhat in the form of Masteries and (maybe?) Progeny. As well as the usual gear progression.

    That being said, maybe far in the future post launch it would be okay. Didn't WoW do it with both the Death Knight and the Demon Hunter? Or maybe just the DK, I'm not certain. Either way, it could be something they could do later after they've released a couple of expansions.

    • 155 posts
    September 10, 2021 8:15 AM PDT
    It's a good concept, poor execution.

    I'm 100% for having certain things unlocked from time and effort in a game.

    I'm 100% against a game forcing me to do a bunch of **** I don't want to do, just so I can enjoy the game later.

    If I hate playing healers, can you imagine how pissed I'd be if I had to max level a healer just to play a rogue?

    That's forced miserable-ness from a game and makes the game turn to a giant pile of dog-poop.

    Let's turn it around though: let's say, after spending "x" time inside a certain area, now you are able to travel using a boat now. That's fine with me. I can still play/do what I want and get rewarded.

    Or maybe, if your account age is 2 years old, you get additional bank space, or cheaper repairs, etc.


    The only way I would be for unlocking such powerful content would be based on actions within individual servers (think unlocking the froglocks on Eq2).

    Something like this race, or this continent, or this raid isn't unlocked until certain requirements are met. Something like beating a raid zone, restoring the druids forest somehow, something major that would require input from all of the players on the server.

    Each server will unlock it at various times, but ultimately the entire server would be working together.
    • 1900 posts
    September 10, 2021 9:16 AM PDT

    I see it from a different angle, I prefer a bit more DnD-like "commitment" for lack of a better term. To continue in that vein and in stereotypical fashion , hopefully not to turn away what was considered to be the core demographic of MMO's, I like the dedication that comes from being "married" to the class you choose once you log in. Thats it. Deal with it. (alt-aholics aside)

    However, I do like deeply embedded subleties within the class that can be discovered much later by happy accidents based on that early decision considering Pantheon will be a game where it takes years to max level. (you heard me). For instance, a stupid caster not knowing anything; doesnt know to arm a weapon or use spells at level 1 so- they go out fighting...hand to hand. Dies alot, sees skill ups in hand to hand and gets a little exasperated but sticks to it then figures things out but, still uses some hand to hand here and there, for fun when older. Only to discover a year later at 1/3 to max level playing casually 2 hrs 3 nights per week avg and maybe 6 hrs on each day of a weekend, that her bind wounds ability is far superior to others...hand-to-hand :). I dont know, to me, stuff like that has a cool awww factor to it, that hand-to-hand skill has a secret boost to bind-wound ability that was coded in secretly by devs but you dont know right away or is really hard to discern or make the association immediately. or, 1hb to potion making(mortar and pestle), 2hb to carpentry/woodcrafting (axe shopping), 1h piercing to cooking (stirring, burger-on-grill-jabbing), 2h piercing to smithing (shoveling coal) , shield block to jewelcraft (concentrate on delicate, block out distractions)

    • 58 posts
    September 10, 2021 11:22 AM PDT
    I, personally, am not a fan of things being locked away such as classes or races. I don't want to have to play through a class that I don't Iike just to unlock what I really want to play. I do like the way original eq2 had base archetypes that would split into different classes at higher levels such as the fighter archetype giving you the option of going sk or pally at a certain level. I think that adds much more to the game than just locking classes/races away.

    I also am not a fan of "account-wide" unlocks for things either. None of my characters have anything to do with each other so why should Bob the wizard have access to the forlorn steeds of the forest folk just because John the warrior did them a favor three years ago. Bob should have to earn that privilege too. I know that account unlocks are the new norm but it never sat well with me lol. Guess I'm just an old rper grasping at the old ways before they slip away and are forgotten by the masses.
    • 2973 posts
    September 10, 2021 11:47 AM PDT

    Not really a fan of systems where the only way to play X class or race is locked up behind some massive time commitment. However I am a fan of the option to unlock expanded race/class options for existing races/classes through the same or similar means: Oog the Ogre became revered in Thronefast by performing some epic deeds and his offspring (new ogre character) is schooled by _____ guild allowing for example: an ogre wizard character. 

    • 1380 posts
    September 10, 2021 1:03 PM PDT

    I feel that an entire Class is too much to gate behind some mandatory accomplishment. Particularly if time is a major factor in that accomplishment. Look at the broad difference in opinions expressed on the forums about how every Class is going to play, what their standing will be compared to other Classes, whether that Class will be 'the meta' for Role performance or a gimp nobody wants unless there's no choice. Making a Player put significant time and effort into getting that Class before ever being able to try it out risks a BIG disappointment if they discover they don't like it.

    I DO like and encourage the ideas already mentioned of unlocking some ability or reward that you didn't know of until you accomplished it. Those are great experiences for me.

    Also this:

    Daloskar said: I also am not a fan of "account-wide" unlocks for things either. None of my characters have anything to do with each other so why should Bob the wizard have access to the forlorn steeds of the forest folk just because John the warrior did them a favor three years ago. Bob should have to earn that privilege too.


    This post was edited by Jothany at September 10, 2021 1:04 PM PDT
    • 675 posts
    September 12, 2021 1:20 AM PDT
    Class lock no thanks cosmetics unlucks and mounts sure go for it! Gameplay changing lockouts or paywalls for content is in general a bad desition in mmos.
    • 3154 posts
    September 12, 2021 8:36 AM PDT

    As worded - no thanks, for the reasons given by others. In a game where level-cap takes days or weeks I might feel otherwise. Here where it will take months or years - poor fit.

    I very much hope that Progeny will be in the game in a way that lets us unlock certain things (whatever they may be) by hitting maximum level, or some other target.

    I note that EQ2 has (or had - I haven't played for a long time) a system where each character hitting maximum level unlocked benefits making it easier for future characters. Bonus experience and crafting skill gains. Despite the objective of keeping leveling slow in Pantheon I might support something along those lines. No, not despite the objective of slow progress, *because* of it. If I have to wait a year to cap-out one character I may not have the stomach to spend another whole year capping out character two. Especially since the game may progress during year two giving me more thngs to do with character one. So a boost purely for "alts" of maximum level characters may be a good idea to encourage us to focus on other characters once our first ones hit a dead end (the time when in other MMOs all they have to do is repeat dailies or the same raids or dungeons over and over).

    • 315 posts
    September 12, 2021 3:25 PM PDT

    I suggested this for progeny, I was thinking more like Paladin < Cavalier , Wizard < Archmage , Cleric < Priest etc

    The new class retains all the core abilitys of the original class + a handful of new ones.

    This concept , made it worthwhile to "reroll" and still not lose the feeling of progression.

     

    • 86 posts
    September 13, 2021 3:26 AM PDT

    I feel progression by playing a particular character rather than unlocking through a check list is a better approach.

    Such as DnD offers "sub classes" as a particular character reaches a certain class level.

    • Moderator
    • 9234 posts
    September 13, 2021 3:36 AM PDT

    This topic has been promoted for my CM content, please continue the discussion and have fun! :)

    "Hot Topic - Locked Classes - What are your thoughts on classes being locked behind achievements/content? Join in on this community member discussion on our official forums: https://bit.ly/3hqP90O #MMORPG #CommunityMatters"


    This post was edited by Kilsin at September 13, 2021 3:37 AM PDT
    • 33 posts
    September 13, 2021 3:44 AM PDT

    Progression locked behind progress on an account gives a motivation to replay a character. Maybe I played a rogue and a ranger to max level, but I want to make a hybrid of the two. Give me the ability to merge the two classes.

    Or....

    Maybe I want half human half gnome. Give me the ability to play one of each race to max level, then I can roll their offspring which is visually unique and has some combination of their race bonuses.

    • 10 posts
    September 13, 2021 3:50 AM PDT
    I'm in agreement with the others. A hard No.

    Achievements in my opinion are for people who are unable to set their own goals so they just do what their achievement list tells them to do. Sometimes we're forced to do something we wouldn't otherwise do.

    It goes back to another thread about in-game freedom
    • 5 posts
    September 13, 2021 4:22 AM PDT
    I'm going to go with, it really depends. At launch and the classes set forth I would say hard no. However if at a time you guys discuss about maybe making a new class that combines two, then making an achievement based on that to then have them be unlocked sure. BUT in this regard never tie anything down to the two different classes in order to unlock them. You can use two to unlock it but they all have an individual scaling system. That way I wouldn't have to level two up just to unlock this new class. As everyone has stated, unlocking our class with some base class in order to get to what we really want to play is bonkers. That's a huge time commitment when it's already stated it will take a time commitment to level and experience what you guys have in store for us.
    • 1 posts
    September 13, 2021 5:40 AM PDT

    I'm a fan of this idea, but not until the game has had time to breathe and establish itself (say, Expansion #1, or even #2) at which point, a new class (or a couple of new classes) are introduced that have some form of requirement (such has having a maximum level character, or having a maximum level character of a certain role) to unlock.

     

     

    • 30 posts
    September 13, 2021 6:01 AM PDT
    I'll keep it short and sweet. I like things like this. Gives me something to do.
    • 21 posts
    September 13, 2021 6:32 AM PDT

    Not sure I'm down for this in Pantheon, partly because VR has hinted at epic abilities that will be locked behind progression already.  The current classes will already have prestigous aspects to them!


    This post was edited by delthalas at September 13, 2021 6:33 AM PDT
    • 313 posts
    September 13, 2021 11:26 AM PDT

    If classes are locked then theres not going to be much variantion of players at the start.

    • 30 posts
    September 13, 2021 12:05 PM PDT
    I took it as after launch there could be a classes that had to be unlocked. Not the initial classes
    • 4 posts
    September 13, 2021 7:07 PM PDT

    Hegenox said:

    I always enjoyed content unlocked with player (account) progression - available to people that spend enough time in game to gain "bragging rights" - something more than piece of gear. What do you think about classes locked under specific conditions - like level-capping 3 characters, conquering all (current/specific) raid bosses, etc.?

    As one that has played EQ, EQ2, WoW, FF14, ESO, GW, GW2, Tera... the list goes on... I hate this concept. In any game system. I've played EQ for 22 years off and on. Same with a lot of these other games. Bad idea.


    This post was edited by Lukeass at September 13, 2021 7:20 PM PDT
    • 51 posts
    September 13, 2021 7:20 PM PDT

    locked classes/content. no thx

    • 1313 posts
    September 14, 2021 8:17 AM PDT

    I really dislike locked content like that. I tend to have a character that I invest fully in and thoroughly enjoy. I don't power up multiple characters at all, least of all do so just to get access to a class that I want to play. 

    If I found that the class that really sounded the most interesting to invest in was locked behind some massive artificial grind I'd be pissed off enough to maybe choose not to play at all. 

    • 935 posts
    September 14, 2021 9:00 AM PDT

    Locked classes is a horrible idea.

    • 784 posts
    September 14, 2021 10:16 AM PDT

    I don't totally understand the idea, I guess I'd need specific examples.  Every game has locked content, depending on how you look at it.  When an expansion comes out with a new race or class you could look at that and say "that was locked until now."  As the server progresses and new lands are unlocked (discovered?) it would make sense within the story to unlock a new race or class.  

     

    So I guess my answer is, it would really need to make sense to me within the story of the world.  Simply locking the warrior class until you level up 3 characters to 30 probably wouldn't make sense in this story, especially since those 3 characters have aboslutely nothing to do with each other (I mean, think about it, they'll never even meet each other, it's impossible :))