Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Search ability to discover hidden items/interactions?

    • 6 posts
    August 25, 2021 2:13 PM PDT
    There are various things we can learn from iterations of Dungeons & Dragons: the classic role-playing game. One in particular is the ability to search a specific spot in the environment for hidden interactions or clues. Without completely plagiarizing it, you could roll a die to see if you successfully search an area. If you fail, you incur a short cooldown. This is just an example.

    The perception system currently found in Pantheon already provides the initial framework for what could be the next part of an adventurer's searching ability. First, you perceive the general direction of what might be hidden in your immediate surroundings. Then, you investigate the spot specifically. If you investigate the correct spot, you can incorporate the aforementioned success/failure check or simply give the adventurer a successful find.

    This type of interaction could greatly increase the adventurer's interactibility with his environment, and also can give the devs the ability to randomly insert, modify, and randomize different areas that yield secretive items.

    In this day and age of readily searchable and accessible knowledge, it might help if the devs have something that can readily be altered at a whim, and of which can also give adventurers another layer of systems to discover and investigate.

    This idea sort of ties in with the other posts I've made concerning a dynamic world on top of its static one.
    • 2644 posts
    August 25, 2021 2:41 PM PDT

    I'm not sure I understand what you are proposing. It sounds like you are aware that Perception has 2 skills (that will increase with use), the first being the passive skill Insight that determines a player's chance of just getting a Perception ping when within range, and the other being the active skill Investigate, which requires using the ability to check and see if there's a Perception message available.

    Are you suggesting some other 'search' type of skill? How would that differ from Perception?

    • 6 posts
    August 25, 2021 2:51 PM PDT
    Well, I was proposing more of a general search function to enable players to be able to search a specific area for items, secret quests, buffs, or other interactable articles out in the open world aside from the general perception/investigation system. That's all :D. There can be RNG involved in which it may take multiple tries to successfully search an area depending on the context of that area with a cooldown inbetween each search. This can be for major areas that people congregate at frequently or are more obvious locations where they may be treasure. It would be a cool layer.
    • 2644 posts
    August 25, 2021 3:08 PM PDT

    We have been told about a Scavenging skill in the past. It was described being a sort of a Search skill as you describe, usable in places where one might find hidden items. Examples of places were stacks of boxes or barrels, shelves or cupboards in buildings, random piles of trash, etc. There's been no new info about it for some time, but in Feb this year it was mentioned by the Crafting/Harvesting Dev as " a concept that was still planned for the game" though it might "evolve" somewhat when they start building it. It's just not going to be part of the Crafting/Harvesting system, so it's not getting much development until that system is further along.

    Keep your fingers crossed.

    • 394 posts
    August 25, 2021 3:40 PM PDT

    I'm not sure if we need a whole separate system but a skill for your percecption that could help you find the clicky area of a ping would be helpful for a lot of players I bet.

    The one stream in Faerthal some of those pings you needed to click on looked pretty picky if you didnt know what you were looking for.

    That was an early build though so I'm sure things are set to be more obtimized. 

    • 254 posts
    August 25, 2021 7:10 PM PDT

    In D&D you may search a room for hidden items or traps. There you would roll probably an invistigation (int) check. For passively seeing traps or other items you use your passive perception (wis) ability. I think the OP is asking if we could use an active investigation skill and have some chance, modified by our int or perception stat, to find any hidden doors, items, traps, etc...

    An example would be the hidden room that Cohh found, if you used an active investigation and your skill was high enough, you would see an outline of the door.

    I don't know how much I like the idea though. In D&D you don't have the visual queues that you get in a video game. I wouldn't want someone to just spam investigate in every single room in hopes of finding a hidden room. I prefer the idea of having to run around the walls and see if any are hidden doors, or maybe look for visual indentations that may be a clicky handle. A tale-tell trip wire, etc.

    I have difficulty seeing how levels could be designed so that some things are only findable via an active investigation check, while others are only findable by actually searching the world visually without it feeling awkward.

    In addition, without a DM, you need to make it less exploitable. Maybe once you fail an investigation check you shouldn't be able to make that check again for a long time, if ever. Maybe you would have to come back after gaining a level or something. The DM manages this in D&D, if you fail the check, oh well you're moving on.

    • 2138 posts
    August 26, 2021 7:32 AM PDT

    I recall a stream where different characters got different information based on the things they could perceive. Two looking at the same picture, one got background of what was done there(winery I think), the other got the name of the people that owned the place and where they were buried, another only saw where the magical ward was placed around another room.

    What I think the OP is saying is, have the opportunity for Dev's to have continual involvment the world to change or modify those perception pings to different places or things.

    - Dev ideal: I'll create a new adventure!. Dev responsibility: crap, I have to make this lead somewhere. Dev practical: I'll just make it point to another quest line thats existing. VR reality: good idea but this will cost how much in your Dev hours to complete?

    - Community ideal: starting cities or areas should never become ghost towns. World events should occur that change...things. Community practical: No Gatekeeping! I dont want to miss anything because I wasn't there to do that quest in lavatown before it became Igloo-ville.

    - Player reality: cool, I've got a hint from perception pings. Player interaction: what quest? I got a hint leading elsewhere. Player reaction: envy? missing something?

    -Rules?: Once a perception ping is received in a place, if that ping is then changed in that place in the future, any player that has the first perception ping as logged in their journal (simple checksum?) cannot go back and get the modified perception ping in the same place. Only another player that has never recieved that perception ping in that place (no log entry in perception journal- again checksum?) can get the new perception ping.

    problems: the kind of quest would have to be on rails, going one way as the first player could never come back to deliver or follow up, unless the logic chain can be discerning to respond one way to the original, and another to the new- again, dev hours.

    my head's getting crowded.