VR previously came out as against this. I am glad they don't plan to have one anymore. It quickly gets disturbing.
I have had good experiences and bad experiences with built in voice chat. It is really cool when you can happen upon another player and have a natural conversation within the gameworld. But there is also so many aweful hot mic scenarios (For example, rude streamers blasting the town square with an open mike as they shout out to their recent Sub to their chat, Crying children, Noisy living room Television bleeding in the background, ect). There is also the gamut of aweful noises that bad mic's can make either from bad settings or bad quality. Ultimately, as long as you have the option of muting people easily then I am for it. I can't think of a downside that isn't solved by just muting an offensive player.
Gone are the days where you could run around a open lobby and enjoy voice chatting with people, its 2021 try playing any multiplayer game today with mics and see how long it takes before you mute somebody either cause they just wont stfu or they are blasting some awful music in the background and either think everyone else really wants to know what crap music they like or simply dont care how annoying it is.
Plus its one thing to have CSRs admin text traveling through the game server but having to manage audio would be a ton of extra work, leave that for the Discords to manage themselves.
As I understand that voice chat sometimes can be useful, I generally dislike it, as it breaks the immersion for me. Still I wouldn't mind if it existed for players who think otherwise about it. The problem with allowing voice chat could be a splitting of player base, as people who prefer voice chat could and probably will look for players which feel the same (and otherwise around).
If such an option doesn't exsist in the first place, people will complain for sure, but as long as they don't play because of that, no grouping preference because of that can occur.
1) If there is a built in voice capability, voice comms will become de facto if you want it or not.
2) There are lots of 3rd party apps that do it excellently and save VR the effort.
3) It's very useful to have voice comms *outside* the game for organising groups/events. You don't want to have to fire up Pantheon to have a chat or have two VC apps going for inside/outside the game.
A lot of people don't want voice comms to be the default for various good reasons. If it is, it will mean those that can't or don't want to do it will be badly excluded and/or the community split.
With macros and some typing the average player can community perfectly well. Text and macros as a default is adequate and avoids a lot of issues. If Pantheon *needs* VC to work, then they will have paced the game/combat wrong.
I don't doubt I will use VC with some players I know, but I also know I will avoid it sometimes even with them and most all the time with others.
In a recent group with good friends I've known for years I found myself stopping early because one had the TV on and another was eating and a couple have bad/noisy hardware that I just cannot persuade them to upgrade...
disposalist said:1) If there is a built in voice capability, voice comms will become de facto if you want it or not.
2) There are lots of 3rd party apps that do it excellently and save VR the effort.
3) It's very useful to have voice comms *outside* the game for organising groups/events. You don't want to have to fire up Pantheon to have a chat or have two VC apps going for inside/outside the game.
A lot of people don't want voice comms to be the default for various good reasons. If it is, it will mean those that can't or don't want to do it will be badly excluded and/or the community split.
With macros and some typing the average player can community perfectly well. Text and macros as a default is adequate and avoids a lot of issues. If Pantheon *needs* VC to work, then they will have paced the game/combat wrong.
I don't doubt I will use VC with some players I know, but I also know I will avoid it sometimes even with them and most all the time with others.
In a recent group with good friends I've known for years I found myself stopping early because one had the TV on and another was eating and a couple have bad/noisy hardware that I just cannot persuade them to upgrade...
1. Comms are already mandatory in most serious groups because of the extreme perfomance advantage they give by removing communication delay. Since they will always be available through 3rd party, and there is no plans (nor should there be plans) to restrict the use of discord/teamspeak/ventrillo/skype/ect then the addition of in games comms has no effect on the pressure a player feels to use comms.
2. Sometimes house built systems can integrate better with the game making comms a lower resource draw for more people. But you are right, there will be comms through 3rd party regardless of what VR does so if its a resource draw then it is a wasted one.
3. Good point. One of the strongest draws of discord is the ability to forgo the need for a guild website. Players, guilds, podcasts, streamers all have their own discord channel that they will use. If VR successfully creates a strong in game comms then many people will have to run both programs. I already see this happen in recent releases with local in game comms. You will run into double speak from hearing people in game and in discord because they key bind the same push to talk button to both comms. And I have run into people who shut down their discord so they can talk in localized comms with a party they are spelunking with.
To your loose points, the community is already split on this. People who can't or won't get into comms are already excluded. People with bad mic etiquette will always be a problem and it really sucks when they are people you would otherwise enjoy being around. I always try to help them with direct requests like "Hey do you mind switching to push to talk while you are eating and watching t.v.? I feel like I am watching Magnum P.I. from inside your mouth." For for a bad mic I try to help with settings or I help with shopping for affordable headsets. Most "bad mikes" i have found are from people using really old headsets or from using the onboard computer mic (which usually sounds like they are speaking through a can of hot garbage), or incorrect settings (google is your friend), or from microsoft updates switching your mic back to the crappy default. I have found a few 30-60 dollar bare bones headsets that were more than adequate solutions to some pretty scuzzy mics for my friends. I know even that can be a lot of money. But it isn't impossible to save for or it makes a really good birthday present or holiday gift.
Only if they plan to have a 5-10 level mandatory tutorial on setup and proper use of said VC.
As many other have said, I don't want to listen to my healer munching on cheetos, or my tank gurgling on mountain dew, and we all know the oweful noises Ogres make.
Add in the crappy level difference in people mics, one person sound slike the mic is mebedded in their throat, another like it's in another room, background noises, poor manners and speaking technique, and VC is just a chasm of woeful disinterest in even playing. :)
I have never really enjoyed a voice service that has been implemented in-game. They rarely turn out good, usually lack functionality, and are just not a good experience.
I prefer to use external voice services like Discord when I game. I do think that voice communication is going to be a highly prefered method of communication in Pantheon. Combat looks to be far more challenging than what it is in most of today's MMOs. I wouldn't mind if the developers found some way to integrate Discord into their game.
I would agree that using a third party VC system would be best. It would let the devs focus on more important matters and like others have said there are better options out there already. Also, like people have said there's a lot of downsides to VC. I know I personally wont be grouping/raiding with people who have VC, completely immersion breaking for me. I've even been tempted to either start or look for a guild based on text only chat. The only case grouping/raiding in VC would be in a raid where only the raid leader has permission to speak. Plus like disposalist said "If Pantheon *needs* VC to work, then they will have paced the game/combat wrong.", the pacing should be geared towards text chat since not everyone will have a mic. While this might make it easier for VC people to be more effecient I'm personally more focused on enjoying my time in game.
It was the intent of VR from the beginning to include an in game voice chat system, but very quickly they came to the realization that it would be much easier to just allow players to choose their own Voice chat options from the various Apps already available. Dealing with VOIP Codex's and such just causes more work and extra cost to get licenses and then dealing with extra bandwidth and so forth. If they had been a triple A studio with a huge budget it might be viable, but letting players just use their own 3rd Party voice chat App instead just saves a lot of headache. Plus they can avoid the complaints that would come from players who just don't want to use any sort of Voice chat at all. If players do want Voice chat, it's not hard to find it with several options even being totally free without it needing to be built into the game.
I'm willing to bet that every in game server will likely end up having somebody from the community on that server create a Discord server that everyone (open to all) can join with all sorts of LFG, Trade, GuildRecruit, etc... channels for people to chat in even when not logged into the game. Plus a dozen or more Voice channels for various PUG groups to use when they aren't using their private Guild discord servers. With the customizablity of Discord they could even name these Voice channels by Zone and Camp spot. So a PUG group camping the Upper Ramparts of Black Rose Keep could actually use a Channel named 'BRK-Ramparts' helping others know who to talk to in game if they want to join said group or whatever.
So players who do want to use it can be involved, and those who don't want to use it won't feel like the game is trying to push it on them.
Raidil said: So how many feel there needs it should be a built in voice chat for pantheon. Personal I don't feel there needed to be one with discord and all. If there's not it would allow the role players the ability to do so. Only one I would care to see if done would be for guilds dose voice help groups yep and I could see it only if group to... But open world voice big nope for my and I see that it would probably be used for trash talking if it was in open world. Unless it was proximity bases and that being close only... What's your thoughts?
Absolutely NO.
If guilds/RL Friends groups or whatever want to VC they can use something else. I don't want to listen to random people, many of whom act like idiots, rambling on. I also don't want VC to be used in random pickup groups .. and frankly ... if it's built into the game it will be a requirement by many people.
I would say an easy answer is to have VC enabled/disabled servers, but that seems like looking for a solution to a problem more easily solved by just not having VC built in.
I'm not saying I'm against VC. If I decided to join a raiding guild I would expect it to be used and wouldn't have a problem with it, but that would be me choosing to use it in certain circumstances.
Having voice in the game would be nice at times for sure. But even just a few bad experiences would quickly make me not like it. With other options out there to handle voice save the development time for other features.
I would love for Pantheon to work with Discord, Steam, Guilded, etc. to make it so you can put an invite link directly into chat for people to join your voice channel. For friends this is not needed at all but for pickup groups to join your voice channel can be a pain and I am sure many times will just not happen.
If you have not seen Guilded yet I encorage you to check them out. https://www.guilded.gg/
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Voice Chat is usually useless since it just ends up delving into something else that isn't about the task at hand. Yeah, I know some of you believe that it's needed but it's really not and i've raided plenty of high end content over 20 years without it ingames. The only thing that's really needed is for the group to understand the mechanics and that can be done easier through group text chat during a break or after the 1st or 3rd wipe then will come the grace period of people trying to understand the mechanics which usually takes up to 5+ wipes if it's there first run and it's a difficult content. By then though you'll have a group that understands the fight and can finally beat it.
If you add Voice Chat to that it's just going to end up with lots of screaming and yelling because tensions are high as history as proven time and time again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqSmQEz5SKs (happened because players kept messing up mechanics in a raid)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1altyYV6o (happened because they didn't invite fello guildie to raid due to their other tank gettin back and the player didn't do well enough them during raids)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcXBpuBjZ44 (happened because again players kept messing up mechanics in a raid)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzrjDc7AvS0 (happened because someone noticed the healer was pulling 5k)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBSj5JsCkAk (happened because the group didn't tell him that one loot was on reserve until after they rolled for it)
Voice Chat is not something that should be supported nor is it required since it's clear that in the heat of the moment when adreneline is high, it's best to just restrict conversations in text form since gamers can't handle failure all that well but thats just my take on this. if history repeats itself then fine, whatever.
I personally don't think VR needs to add anything voice chat related. There are so many free options that work great.
As far as whether or not people will actually use voice chat, it's up to you and the people you play with. I will rarely use it, if that means there are certain people that won't want to group with me, that's ok.
I prefer to hear the game as it is intended to be heard, not with people chatting in my ear. With voice chat on I miss in-game things, and I don't want to miss those.
@Counterfleche I found your post very well expressed and thought provoking. I wonder if the voice programs out there like Discord or Guilded have plans to have a way for game designers to imbed them into there games. I feel like this would get the best of both worlds. The game designers would not need to reinvent the wheel and players would be able to continue to use the same service they like.