Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Zone Design

    • 9 posts
    July 19, 2021 4:25 AM PDT

    "As he wiped the sweat from his brow he looked up at the winding , treacherous path ahead, it led into the clouds and promised a very different challenge to the Karanas he had spent the last days navigating. Many adventurers had already warned Voldraxx of what waited from him at the top, savage gnolls and orcs that littered a maze like path between the two sides of the continent of Antonica. He had progressed as far as he could without having to risk this path, but the promise of riches and easy hunting in the commonlands meant this was a challenge that had to be met.

    The path was long and in places treacherous, but none of the creatures of the karanas ventured up this path and as he approached the top and risked a glance down from the dizzying heights, the karanas now appeared faint and distant below. The sweat had returned, but not from the heat, this was a cold foreboding sweat for what lay ahead. He cast the invisibility spell and ventured into the pass.

    Almost immediately a gnoll stood in front of him, sniffing the air and pawing at imaginary foes.. it hadn't seen him, it was true then these creatures couldn't see through invisiblity, which was fortunate for Voldraxx knew this creature was much stronger than he and would make quick work of his frail wizards frame. Someone had given him directions as far as the keep which lay at the centre of this area and ended the dominion of the gnolls. Warily he set off. Bigger, more powerful gnolls glared down into the narrow pass as he passed under sometimes almost touching the creatures as he followed the narrow winding trail, making choices as his directions instructed. He was beginning to relax and almost enjoy the exhilirating journey when his worst fear began to manifest.. he could feel that he was starting to appear! panicked how, he quickened his pace and in his haste lost his place within the instructions, was it left or right next?! hastening his pace now with pure terror, there was nowhere to recast his spell without a gnoll spotting him , he ran blindly now , backtracking and flailing around hoping for sign of the keep. Running now, and still very much lost, he appeared, a gnoll spotted him immedaitely and let out its harsh bray as it followed, more joined and suddenly there was a pack following, once these beasts go the scent they did not give up. Just as he was sure he was gnoll food the keep finally appeared ahead, sprinting towards the guards with the gnolls in tow, one tore at his leg tripping him as he got closer and he fell and rolled past the guards who formed a wall and began laying into the blood crazed gnolls. He lay in a ball recovering for several minutes and watched the guards finish the last of the gnolls. 

    Inside the keep he replenished his provisions and visited the bank to drop off some things that would only add to his burden on the journey onward. He smiled, happy to be alive and walked back out to the keep entrance and his mood sobered. He was only walf way through the pass.. and the other side was inhabited by Orcs, stonger than the gnolls and in some cases hastened by their shamans to be able to run far faster than any man, any slip this time would most certainly be fatal."

     

    I have written this to try to capture the incredible feeling of my first passage through Highpass back in 99. I have never again seen zone design as clever, challenging and awe inspiring as i did back then. High pass was zone of around lvl 20 mobs that without access to ports you invariably had to cross at a much lower level which became a right of passage for many adventurers. There was more: the kerran high guard who patrolled to the zone boundary on kerra isle, causing anyone advneturing there to scurry for cover. The Hill giants wandering through east commonlands on or near the path. Everfrost with its amazing atmospheric wind noise and mammoths on the open tundra. All of these are very special to me and had something that no game i have played since has had. Real challenge. No nicely placed mobs all within the same level range that you can plow through at your leisure and even go afk and eat your dinner while stood there. No leashed mobs that stop following you after about 10 seconds.

    I really hope Pantheon devs can attempt to replicate this intelligence and challenge when designing their zones. I want narrow paths that you cant avoid, i want high level mobs in low level zones that you live in constant fear of. I want intelligent links between areas that make certain places on the map dreaded and spoken of in hushed tones. I am not a pre-alpha or even alpha member, so i watch streams and see where this game is going, and i live in hope. Hope that another game in my lifetime can be as truly captivating as eq was. I think we are in good hands with Joppa, i like what he says, and he seems to truly understand what gamers of my era crave. I would simply point out, that it doesn't always take massive resources to make something special, intelligent design can create experiences that games with far bigger budgets will never be able to achieve.

     

    If you have a favourite memory of special zone design , from eq or elsewhere please add it and why. Maybe it can help inspire, or at least inform the devs!


    This post was edited by voldraxx at July 19, 2021 7:19 AM PDT
    • 413 posts
    July 19, 2021 5:03 AM PDT

    Many times I had hoped a particular location was being camped, so I could slip past the MOBs.  Once in a while you could sneak into a dungeon being by a group fighting near by.  

    But I remember logging on to find my two sons playing EQ late at night on a school-night.    /tell Sons   "What I you doing online so late, it's a school night"?  They said, "We are camping the gnolls at Highpass for the Polished Granit Tomahawk, do you want to group?

    After a battle with parental cognitive dissonance I said,  "Yes! OMW ETA 15 minutes."

     

    Yes Highpass was an awesome zone.


    This post was edited by Zevlin at July 19, 2021 5:07 AM PDT
    • 4 posts
    July 20, 2021 9:29 AM PDT

     One of my favorite zones of everquest was tower of the frozen shadow. i loved the progression and stuff. That being said i dont find a lot of really good zone construction in modern day everquest partially because we have all the tools to get past virtually every obstical.

    I never played old school EQ, but i have play a lot of other games and a good zone layout is one of the most important parts of gameplay for me. I love how connected the world of dark souls 1 is. you run around enough and find a new way to get where you needed to go, But you had to explore to go there.

    One of my favorite design choices from dark souls are the black knights. On first playthrough if you find one it will WRECK you, and you will need to come back at a later time to fight it.

    Part of pantheon should be exploring and finding new places, shortcuts, secrets, Or bosses you need to fight.

    Dungeon design in MMOs is kinda trash right now, Its basically either fight to the room you camp, or invise to the room you camp. I hope pantheon can take lessons from other games and find a unique solution to this problem, I.E. Locked doors you need keys for, ways to sneak around mobs, brief respites, or secret towns you can stop in to med.

    • 28 posts
    July 23, 2021 9:48 PM PDT

    We had snuck into the River Valley in the pre-dawn hours and explored all day both sides of the elevated river. The valley was challenging and for a solo Desciple probably deadly. Thankfully I had a couple of others willing to explore the Valley with me, a Palidan carring a two handed weapon... he didn't look out of place and a Cleric. Just getting into the Valley was a trial and more than once we had to run for it. With perserverance and a few real deaths when feign death failed me, we learned the twists and turns of the temple and were able to make it past the mobs of zealots to the lush River Valley. Each area of the Vally was a spectacle with its own challenges and more than a few surprises. We worked through the zones, exploring each and eventually the entire Valley like and Archeologist would explore a dig sight. Each area pushed us and then in the last area, reaching for the last collectable that we needed... Catstrophy with nowhere to run!

    There the three of us stood as an area we had cleard spawned and a roaming siren came around, saw us, and sounded the alarm. That was when we learend the power of our team. As a Desciple, thier healing was in thier attack... That is if they healed from thier chi they ran out fast... However, when they healed as part of the sequences of movements the healing flowed. Unfortunately, that also meant that the Desciple could not put the mobs down like a Monk. The Cleric with plenty of mana could not just heal with only three in the group and consequenly had to join the battle. This was possible only because of thier Blade Barrier that allowed them to put a mob down in a reasnonable time. But there is a catch... Blade Barrier is an Area Effect, more on that in a moment. Our main fighter was the Palidan weilding a two handed weapon... Unfortunately, this hamstrung thier abilites, which required a shield and therefor slowed thier kill rate. Luckily, they knew about thier valor skills and was able to send a massive heal into the group periodically. What we did not know about the valor skills is that they are Area Effect! With all of the AE skills being used, this was an Epic battle with only 1 other in my gaming time that match. The battle litterally went on for over 30 Real Time minutes with wave after wave of sirens decending upon us... we all felt like this was going to be a wipe, and it nearly was...

    As we were battling through the mobs that were on level or above us we found new ways of surving a wave. Just as we would be clearing a wave one of the Area Effect abilites would be used and pull another wave, unbenown to us. This cycle went on and on, the Cleric was running dangerously low on mana, I would do a mana generating sequence and he would cast a mana gernating spell. It was during one of these times that the Palidan found out that a rescue (one of his valor skills) instantly filled his pool and enabled his additional abilities. We thought we had it down and that is when it happend, we were overwhelmed, my healing sequence interrupted, and I got dropped... Just the two of them would not survive. Luckily, the Palidan had enough virtue points for a resurection and the cleric had enough mana for a big heal and I was up and back in the middle of the battle. Shortly, after the Cleric was out of mana and getting beaten back, with just a sliver of life the Palidan rescued the Cleric and was able to Layhands and completely heal the Cleric. Back in the battle, another wave decending. This time the Cleric had stayed back and had built up thier mana, which was a good thing... As a siren champion joined the battle and while we were able to take it down it dropped the Palidan, I thought this was the end. No the Cleric had the mana and time to do a battle resurrection!

    We were now retreating, no more standing in place... to many spawning close by. Hit and move, one after the other. One would stop and slow the mob of sirens chassing and the other two would move ahead. Then one would stop and starting firing in to the sirens and allow the one left behind a chance to catch up. Role, spine, hit, tumble, get up and run... again and again. The zone was new and we did not know where we were going just away from where we were. Eventually, the mobs changed from sirens to frogs, which was good... The frogs could not silence or stun. We finally found a spot where there were not many mobs and were able to finish those that had followed.

    Without the team work of the three of us none of use would have survived nor could we have soloed at that level. The addrenalin rush we each felt was real and we relived it for some time a ventured together for much longer. As I reflect on the time that is the power of a group... synergy... where the sum of the group is greater than the individual contributions. That is what I am hoping to find with Pantheon... Group adventures that allows the collective to really contribute individually and therefor make the group more capable.

    Oh, by the way the River Valley was in Vanguard... Which, is where I went after EQ.


    This post was edited by FriarMonk at July 26, 2021 12:55 AM PDT