Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

The ability to solo.

    • 1584 posts
    July 5, 2021 1:45 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    If he is talking about the current TPS servers than it is wildly common, but this is also considering that the classes (all of them) are completely ovetuned, and makes the game as a whole much easier than it was when it first came out.  So with this in mind yes multiboxing can in eq current form can monlopolize current loot/content from others, but I don't see this being a big deal or as big as some people think due to if they truly make content that is truly challenging than their will be some content that could be to hard for most multiboxers to actually deal with and the group that are all playing as individuals would have a greater benefit than the multiboxer in this situations.

    I bolded the important part.  It isn't the multi-boxers in this case, it's the base game design that is the problem. The fact the classes are all completely overpowered is the problem.  So once again, what someone says is the problem, that of multi-boxing, isn't the actual problem but only a symptom of the underlying problem that is horrific terrible game design.

     

    Yes i agree, which is way i brought up the classes all being overtuned, not the actual multiboxing as i said in the quote "If the content is actually challenging multiboxer could be at a disadvantage to a group made of individuals."  well shorten it down anyway.

    • 1860 posts
    July 5, 2021 3:28 PM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

     "If the content is actually challenging multiboxer could be at a disadvantage to a group made of individuals." 

    Someone boxing being not as efficient as people playing individual characters is not the point.  Often times the boxed characters are only there for down time buffs and heals.  It's still increasing the boxers efficiency and is circumventing the need to rely on other players.
    Tenet 3 states: No single player should be able do everything on their own.

     I'm not sure how much weight the tenets hold anymore?

    There is also the following tenets that would seem to be anti boxing :

    13. Ensure players have time to form important social bonds

    16. Focus on cooperative play that will attract those seeking a challenge

    17. The greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared – and earned

    ...but again, at one point I thought the tenets were the pillars the game was founded on but maybe they don't hold as much value as I once thought?


    This post was edited by philo at July 5, 2021 4:00 PM PDT
    • 1584 posts
    July 5, 2021 4:02 PM PDT

    philo said:

    Riahuf22 said:

     "If the content is actually challenging multiboxer could be at a disadvantage to a group made of individuals." 

    Someone boxing being not as efficient as people playing individual characters is not the point.  Often times the boxed characters are only there for down time buffs and heals.  It's still increasing the boxers efficiency and is circumventing the need to rely on other players.
    Tenet 3 states: No single player should be able do everything on their own.

    If the tenets mean anything, boxing shouldn't be allowed even on separate servers. I'm not sure how much weight the tenets hold anymore?

    There is also the following tenets that would seem to be anti boxing :

    13. Ensure players have time to form important social bonds

    16. Focus on cooperative play that will attract those seeking a challenge

    17. The greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared – and earned

    ...but again, at one point I thought the tenets were the pillars the game was founded on but maybe they don't hold as much value as I once thought?

    If they can't  down content that can truly progress their charcters they would have to abandon using multiple charcter in the same group, could you have them outside of the group sure yeah you could but i dont see how you could take them out completely either way, and honestly trying to waste so much time trying to get it done could of been used to make the general game better and not just stop a ton of people trying to use more than one character, let's go back to what Joppa's opinion where he said if you want to multibox than i welcome you to the challenge and good luck with that.  

    • 1860 posts
    July 5, 2021 4:10 PM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    philo said:

    Riahuf22 said:

     "If the content is actually challenging multiboxer could be at a disadvantage to a group made of individuals." 

    Someone boxing being not as efficient as people playing individual characters is not the point.  Often times the boxed characters are only there for down time buffs and heals.  It's still increasing the boxers efficiency and is circumventing the need to rely on other players.
    Tenet 3 states: No single player should be able do everything on their own.

    If the tenets mean anything, boxing shouldn't be allowed even on separate servers. I'm not sure how much weight the tenets hold anymore?

    There is also the following tenets that would seem to be anti boxing :

    13. Ensure players have time to form important social bonds

    16. Focus on cooperative play that will attract those seeking a challenge

    17. The greatest sense of accomplishment comes when it is shared – and earned

    ...but again, at one point I thought the tenets were the pillars the game was founded on but maybe they don't hold as much value as I once thought?

    If they can't  down content that can truly progress their charcters they would have to abandon using multiple charcter in the same group, could you have them outside of the group sure yeah you could but i dont see how you could take them out completely either way, and honestly trying to waste so much time trying to get it done could of been used to make the general game better and not just stop a ton of people trying to use more than one character,



    I don't know what that ^ means.  I'll send you a pm.

    • 1281 posts
    July 5, 2021 5:22 PM PDT

    philo said:

    My multiboxing experience is limited so someone else might be able to give better examples?

    Generally, where multiboxing is not allowed you may not have more than one client running per real life person playing. 

    Sometimes IP blocking is involved but players can apply for an IP exemption if multiple people in their house play. They have to agree to whatever boxing restrictions are in place regardless of IP exemptions.  Other players tend to be the best police.  If players know something isn't allowed they are quick to report players breaking the rules.  It is fairly easy to tell who is boxing if you watch them.

    Like Joppa said, servers where boxing is allowed could be a solution as well.  That seems like an extreme solution but it's an option.

    I know P1999 blocks connections by IP, but I doubt a commercial product would do that. I do think it's reasonable to say they will not allow multiple instances of the client running on the same PC, but a real multiboxer will likely have multiple PC's.

    I'm still not finding a good way a commercial product will be able to, for certain, detect that multiple clients on different PC's are being played by the same person.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at July 5, 2021 5:22 PM PDT
    • 1860 posts
    July 5, 2021 5:57 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    I'm still not finding a good way a commercial product will be able to, for certain, detect that multiple clients on different PC's are being played by the same person.

    It doesn't have to be "for certain" to be an improvement.  Joppa seems to think there are viable solutions.  It's probably worth whatever time they need to put into it for the long term health of the game. (and that means a lot coming from me...i think there is a lot that could be cut in order to push this forward).  

    Boxing poses a risk to the core values of the game. It's a social game where players are required to depend on each other. Boxing bypasses game systems without depending on other players to do so.  Like those tenets I mentioned in the post above.  Regulating it is worth the time/investment.


    This post was edited by philo at July 6, 2021 5:30 AM PDT
    • 2419 posts
    July 6, 2021 7:21 AM PDT

    philo said:

    It's a social game where players are required to depend on each other.

    Then don't allow for soloing either.

    • 1860 posts
    July 6, 2021 11:02 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    philo said:

    It's a social game where players are required to depend on each other.

    Then don't allow for soloing either.

    They arent designing around soloing (other than the first few levels/onboarding).  People will do as they will.  You can always solo mobs that are much lower level.

    I was paraphrasing joppa in that line you quoted.


    This post was edited by philo at July 6, 2021 11:21 AM PDT
    • 129 posts
    July 7, 2021 3:18 PM PDT

    Likely, most damage/caster classes will be able to solo. It's pretty simple when you are killing light blue mobs. I have not found any mmo, regardless of it being group centric, you couldn't kill easier mobs for less xp. Boxing will be in, no one is going to limit revenue and also it won't be a problem. This game isn't as simple as EQ so running a 10+box setup like you see on efreeti farms won't be a big deal.

    People who multi-box enjoy doing so. I am too lazy, but it's nice when some of my guild mates do it because it's easy to fill a group and it's one less role. Also, if someone can multibox a camp and hold it, good on them. That's life.

    Love that 3rd post though, it's what happens when everyone is maxed level and all content is locked by super guilds.

    • 1992 posts
    July 7, 2021 4:05 PM PDT

    Rogue said: Boxing will be in, no one is going to limit revenue and also it won't be a problem.

    You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm just pointing out that your opinion is pretty much exactly opposite to the last 'official' statement we've heard from VR on the subject.

    "Unless convinced otherwise down the road...I think we're going to be moving towards more of a hard line approach to prohibit that behavior, because the concern is that it poses too much of a risk to the core values of the game" ~ Joppa, Developer Roundtable, Oct 2019. Philo posted the link if you want to listen.

    • 129 posts
    July 9, 2021 1:47 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    Rogue said: Boxing will be in, no one is going to limit revenue and also it won't be a problem.

    You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I'm just pointing out that your opinion is pretty much exactly opposite to the last 'official' statement we've heard from VR on the subject.

    "Unless convinced otherwise down the road...I think we're going to be moving towards more of a hard line approach to prohibit that behavior, because the concern is that it poses too much of a risk to the core values of the game" ~ Joppa, Developer Roundtable, Oct 2019. Philo posted the link if you want to listen.

     

    "Unless convinced otherwise." The community won't do the convincing, revenue numbers will. Sorry, but I don't care for official statements regarding their potential revenue before the game is live and revenue starts generating on a monthly basis. I'd be hard pressed to imagine they will, on live servers, IP limit households and setup an approval queue for hundreds (likely thousands) of people.

    Values vs Required Monthly Revenue, which one do you think will win push come to shove. I'll remain a believer this is not going to hold true and they can color me surprised. That said, if this is a path they are willing to take I fully support it as it serves my best interest to prevent people from surpassing my laziness.

    • 1992 posts
    July 10, 2021 6:41 PM PDT

    Rogue said: I'd be hard pressed to imagine they will, on live servers, IP limit households and setup an approval queue for hundreds (likely thousands) of people.

    What on earth does 'an approval queue' have to do with allowing or not allowing boxing?

     

    Rogue said: Values vs Required Monthly Revenue, which one do you think will win push come to shove.

    Well based on your comments and question, I have no trouble accepting that YOU would choose your revenue over your values.

    Perhaps you have trouble believing that everyone is not like you.

    • 184 posts
    July 10, 2021 9:19 PM PDT

    The only reason I "WILL" have multiple boxes is for buffs and porting, but only later in the life of the game. When it becomes to difficult to find groups, ports,  buffs in the older zones I will have my multi-boxes there to assist me when needed. 

    • 1860 posts
    July 11, 2021 12:40 AM PDT

    Rint said:

    The only reason I "WILL" have multiple boxes is for buffs and porting, but only later in the life of the game. When it becomes to difficult to find groups, ports,  buffs in the older zones I will have my multi-boxes there to assist me when needed. 

    Would you start out on a boxing server?  Or would you pay to transfer to one later?

    • 9115 posts
    July 11, 2021 3:46 AM PDT

    This is clearly a subject that people are divided on but please be respectful of other peoples opinions, getting personal will result in the thread being closed and the offenders being punished over what should be a mature and courteous discussion with your fellow Pantheon community members.

    As a game development company, we would rather you socialise and play with other gamers than multi-box and we will monitor multiple accounts throughout testing and into the live release making any changes we feel appropriate to protect our game from harmful actions caused by users with single and multi-accounts.

    • 9115 posts
    July 11, 2021 3:54 AM PDT

    philo said:

    Rint said:

    The only reason I "WILL" have multiple boxes is for buffs and porting, but only later in the life of the game. When it becomes to difficult to find groups, ports,  buffs in the older zones I will have my multi-boxes there to assist me when needed. 

    Would you start out on a boxing server?  Or would you pay to transfer to one later?

    It is highly unlikely that we would ever consider a boxing server, Pantheon is meant to be played with others in a social environment. Depending on how many people multi-box and what effects it has on the servers and community/gameplay overall will depend if and how we take action against it.

    If a handful of people, in off-peak times, from low population countries, box a healer to do some questing or grinding on trash mobs, that's one thing, but to have a server flooded with bot armies destroying dungeons, locking down content from other players and/or gold farming, well, that's another thing entirely and something we would step in to put an end too.

    Scripts for auto botting are against TOS and would be banned immediately upon us receiving evidence of this happening.

    Player controlled boxing will be monitored carefully.

    • 1860 posts
    July 11, 2021 6:11 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    philo said:

    Rint said:

    The only reason I "WILL" have multiple boxes is for buffs and porting, but only later in the life of the game. When it becomes to difficult to find groups, ports,  buffs in the older zones I will have my multi-boxes there to assist me when needed. 

    Would you start out on a boxing server?  Or would you pay to transfer to one later?

    It is highly unlikely that we would ever consider a boxing server, Pantheon is meant to be played with others in a social environment. Depending on how many people multi-box and what effects it has on the servers and community/gameplay overall will depend if and how we take action against it.



    The only solution Joppa mentioned was the possibility of boxing servers.   He said it is a stretch but that's what was said in the clip we have been discussing.  We haven't heard any other way that it could be realisticaly regulated. 

    Here is the comment about servers:
    https://youtu.be/ccJw9KwzVy4?t=720


    This post was edited by philo at July 11, 2021 6:15 AM PDT
    • 1921 posts
    July 11, 2021 7:08 AM PDT

    IMO:

    From Oct/Nov 2019, here:

    vjek said:

    This is just taken from the Youtube auto-transcription, so it's not exact, but too exciting not to share in writing, imho..
    --
    8:46 K: all right so moving onto the next one this is a doozy so a gameplay multi boxing given Pantheon as many class-specific tillie abilities is there a concern about multi boxing or second accounts to provide these with players split for and against has the team have any thoughts about how to handle this one Pantheon launches

    9:08 we have made official statements on this that basically are around that we're not going to actively stop multi boxing we will it's going to be difficult because of the way we set up with our classes and abilities obviously multi boxing and cheating gold selling and stuff like that and auto-playing are completely separate we're talking multi boxing is one play off one computer say two or three accounts having to manually control three you know two or three accounts so yeah what are we going to do anything is there a concern or or something we're looking into um you know stop this from being an issue

    9:47 J: I'd say there is a concern and knowing the public statements we've made up until this point even just over the last couple of months as this topic has resurfaced unless convinced otherwise down the road you know perhaps by what we're observing during alpha beta I think we're going to be moving towards more of a hard-line approach to prohibit that behavior

    10:15 because the concern is is that it poses too much of a risk to the core values of the game

    10:24 being built on that social cooperative spirit we want to create a living world where players depend on each other and form those social bonds by by leaning on other actual players to to bring the answer or the solution or the help that that particular race and class and player is able to bring

    10:50 so multi boxing is it's another form of soloing but but it bypasses if you're able to bypass game systems without depending on other players to do so like the question refers to those class specific utility abilities if you're able to just have a pocket druid to build your bridges in a pocket rogue to draw your ropes like I get where that's attractive on the soloing side of things but it goes against the the core convictions of building a living world where players are building these social contracts because they depend on what each other bring to the table

    11:26 so while this is not an anti soloing sentiment because I mean again I would I would much rather see soloing itself promoted and made made more room for soloing than I would to see multi boxing being giving a nod to multi boxing which I mean that we all know too that saying we're not going to stop multi boxing is the same thing as saying yeah go ahead because if if you can multi box and no one's going to stop you then that that's what you're gonna do so anyway that's that's the current stance on that we will be you know keep keeping an eye if it's the kind of thing where it's like okay if if there needs to be a couple of servers as you know I think it's a little bit it's a little bit of a stretch but if there needs to be a couple of servers that exist that are that are multi boxing friendly sure

    12:17 but when it comes to the core game when it comes to the the the mainline experience of playing Pantheon and what we are doing as developers to support and maintain those convictions that's absolutely our approach

    12:34
    -- ...

    It is greatly concerning to me that Kilsin's public comments on this demographic-affecting topic are directly in opposition to Joppa's comments on this demographic-affecting topic.

    Is Pantheon going to be pro-multibox (Kilsin) or anti-multibox (Joppa) ?  What is the official public design goal?


    This post was edited by vjek at July 11, 2021 7:09 AM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    July 11, 2021 10:14 AM PDT

    philo said:

    Kilsin said:

    philo said:

    Rint said:

    The only reason I "WILL" have multiple boxes is for buffs and porting, but only later in the life of the game. When it becomes to difficult to find groups, ports,  buffs in the older zones I will have my multi-boxes there to assist me when needed. 

    Would you start out on a boxing server?  Or would you pay to transfer to one later?

    It is highly unlikely that we would ever consider a boxing server, Pantheon is meant to be played with others in a social environment. Depending on how many people multi-box and what effects it has on the servers and community/gameplay overall will depend if and how we take action against it.



    The only solution Joppa mentioned was the possibility of boxing servers.   He said it is a stretch but that's what was said in the clip we have been discussing.  We haven't heard any other way that it could be realisticaly regulated. 

    Here is the comment about servers:
    https://youtu.be/ccJw9KwzVy4?t=720

    Yes, that is why I said it is highly unlikely to match his "it would be a stretch" comment during my DRT with him, we will have to see what happens though, we don't have a set answer yet because we don't know what's going to happen, we will monitor it closely and act accordingly.

    • 9115 posts
    July 11, 2021 10:25 AM PDT

    vjek said:

    IMO:

    From Oct/Nov 2019, here:

    vjek said:

    This is just taken from the Youtube auto-transcription, so it's not exact, but too exciting not to share in writing, imho..
    --
    8:46 K: all right so moving onto the next one this is a doozy so a gameplay multi boxing given Pantheon as many class-specific tillie abilities is there a concern about multi boxing or second accounts to provide these with players split for and against has the team have any thoughts about how to handle this one Pantheon launches

    9:08 we have made official statements on this that basically are around that we're not going to actively stop multi boxing we will it's going to be difficult because of the way we set up with our classes and abilities obviously multi boxing and cheating gold selling and stuff like that and auto-playing are completely separate we're talking multi boxing is one play off one computer say two or three accounts having to manually control three you know two or three accounts so yeah what are we going to do anything is there a concern or or something we're looking into um you know stop this from being an issue

    9:47 J: I'd say there is a concern and knowing the public statements we've made up until this point even just over the last couple of months as this topic has resurfaced unless convinced otherwise down the road you know perhaps by what we're observing during alpha beta I think we're going to be moving towards more of a hard-line approach to prohibit that behavior

    10:15 because the concern is is that it poses too much of a risk to the core values of the game

    10:24 being built on that social cooperative spirit we want to create a living world where players depend on each other and form those social bonds by by leaning on other actual players to to bring the answer or the solution or the help that that particular race and class and player is able to bring

    10:50 so multi boxing is it's another form of soloing but but it bypasses if you're able to bypass game systems without depending on other players to do so like the question refers to those class specific utility abilities if you're able to just have a pocket druid to build your bridges in a pocket rogue to draw your ropes like I get where that's attractive on the soloing side of things but it goes against the the core convictions of building a living world where players are building these social contracts because they depend on what each other bring to the table

    11:26 so while this is not an anti soloing sentiment because I mean again I would I would much rather see soloing itself promoted and made made more room for soloing than I would to see multi boxing being giving a nod to multi boxing which I mean that we all know too that saying we're not going to stop multi boxing is the same thing as saying yeah go ahead because if if you can multi box and no one's going to stop you then that that's what you're gonna do so anyway that's that's the current stance on that we will be you know keep keeping an eye if it's the kind of thing where it's like okay if if there needs to be a couple of servers as you know I think it's a little bit it's a little bit of a stretch but if there needs to be a couple of servers that exist that are that are multi boxing friendly sure

    12:17 but when it comes to the core game when it comes to the the the mainline experience of playing Pantheon and what we are doing as developers to support and maintain those convictions that's absolutely our approach

    12:34
    -- ...

    It is greatly concerning to me that Kilsin's public comments on this demographic-affecting topic are directly in opposition to Joppa's comments on this demographic-affecting topic.

    Is Pantheon going to be pro-multibox (Kilsin) or anti-multibox (Joppa) ?  What is the official public design goal?

    What's concerning? Our public comments match and are both aligned with the companies views. We both want people to group up together and to minimise multi-boxing and both think a multi-boxing server would be unlikely.

    Pantheon is a social game and we would rather see people grouping up with other people but we can't predict the future. We have no idea how popular multi-boxing will be or how it will affect the servers, the economy, the flow, the social aspect...which is why I said we will monitor it closely and act accordingly mate.

    As a bit of insight to my personal views of tolerating low impact multi-boxing: I play MMORPGs from Australia on US servers, offpeak with 250 ms ping and am often in the situation of being eager to play and not being able to find groups to do anything fun or useful to my characters progression, being able to manually box a healer on a different monitor like I have done in EQ and VG allowed me to continue playing the game and having fun while paying double the subscription fee of everyone else.

    I would drop my boxed character for a real person or a group in a heartbeat.

    I am staunchly against automated botting, gold farming and running around with armies of AI-controlled characters.

    But again, that's my opinion, I will always follow whatever the company's policy is on any matter, as I have always done.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at July 11, 2021 10:27 AM PDT
    • 1921 posts
    July 11, 2021 1:29 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    What's concerning? Our public comments match and are both aligned with the companies views. We both want people to group up together and to minimise multi-boxing and both think a multi-boxing server would be unlikely. 

    IMO:

    Kilsin, it's not possible to separate your personal views from your company views when you use the same account to post both.

    In the same post you say you want to minimise multi-boxing AND you tolerate low impact multi-boxing.  These are opposing opinions.  In the same post.
    Joppa said in what I quoted above that the company view is to prohibit this behavior.  Yet, many of your posts are pro-multi-box.
    How are new and veteran users of the forums supposed to separate your personal opinion from official company posts?  You state both in the exact same fashion.

    It is extremely frustrating to me, as a potential customer of Visionary Realms and a potential player of Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, that you do not use a separate account to post your personal views versus canonical company policy and design goals.  Even moderators on Reddit differentiate their personal versus official posts, because of this exact problem.

    Please, in the future, use a different account to post your personal opinions (How about 'Kilsin-Personal'?), or place a very large unmistakable visual separator, in your posts, between what is official company design and what is your personal opinion, especially, as in this case, where those opinions do not align, logically.


    This post was edited by vjek at July 11, 2021 1:35 PM PDT
    • 1281 posts
    July 11, 2021 2:07 PM PDT

    And thus this thread shows why it's difficult to discuss things years in advance of when they will actually matter. Just because one developer has one idea mentioned in the past does not mean it is now set in stone and no other developer can publically have a different opnion. Until this game launches and VR releases a TOS for active accounts of subscribing customers, expecting everyone on payroll to agree or commit one way or another serves no purpose at all. Even after the game launches, there will still be differences of opinions within the company.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at July 11, 2021 2:11 PM PDT
    • 1860 posts
    July 11, 2021 4:26 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    And thus this thread shows why it's difficult to discuss things years in advance of when they will actually matter. Just because one developer has one idea mentioned in the past does not mean it is now set in stone and no other developer can publically have a different opnion. Until this game launches and VR releases a TOS for active accounts of subscribing customers, expecting everyone on payroll to agree or commit one way or another serves no purpose at all. Even after the game launches, there will still be differences of opinions within the company.



    I'm sure many of us who have been following daily since the beginning have learned the hierarchy of which information source takes precedence when we get conflicting info.  

    • 1860 posts
    July 11, 2021 4:58 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    philo said:

    Kilsin said:

    philo said:

    Rint said:

    The only reason I "WILL" have multiple boxes is for buffs and porting, but only later in the life of the game. When it becomes to difficult to find groups, ports,  buffs in the older zones I will have my multi-boxes there to assist me when needed. 

    Would you start out on a boxing server?  Or would you pay to transfer to one later?

    It is highly unlikely that we would ever consider a boxing server, Pantheon is meant to be played with others in a social environment. Depending on how many people multi-box and what effects it has on the servers and community/gameplay overall will depend if and how we take action against it.



    The only solution Joppa mentioned was the possibility of boxing servers.   He said it is a stretch but that's what was said in the clip we have been discussing.  We haven't heard any other way that it could be realisticaly regulated. 

    Here is the comment about servers:
    https://youtu.be/ccJw9KwzVy4?t=720

    Yes, that is why I said it is highly unlikely to match his "it would be a stretch" comment during my DRT with him, we will have to see what happens though, we don't have a set answer yet because we don't know what's going to happen, we will monitor it closely and act accordingly.



    Are there any other ways to regulate boxing that have been considered? (other than separate servers or saying you're not going to stop multiboxing)  

    • 159 posts
    July 11, 2021 5:12 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

     

    As a bit of insight to my personal views of tolerating low impact multi-boxing: I play MMORPGs from Australia on US servers, offpeak with 250 ms ping and am often in the situation of being eager to play and not being able to find groups to do anything fun or useful to my characters progression, being able to manually box a healer on a different monitor like I have done in EQ and VG allowed me to continue playing the game and having fun while paying double the subscription fee of everyone else.

    I would drop my boxed character for a real person or a group in a heartbeat.

    I am staunchly against automated botting, gold farming and running around with armies of AI-controlled characters.

    But again, that's my opinion, I will always follow whatever the company's policy is on any matter, as I have always done.

    I can respect it. There is obviously a huge difference between manually controlling multiple accounts simutaneously vs. scripts of sorts.

    vjek said:

    Kilsin said:

    What's concerning? Our public comments match and are both aligned with the companies views. We both want people to group up together and to minimise multi-boxing and both think a multi-boxing server would be unlikely. 

    IMO:

    Kilsin, it's not possible to separate your personal views from your company views when you use the same account to post both.

    In the same post you say you want to minimise multi-boxing AND you tolerate low impact multi-boxing.  These are opposing opinions.  In the same post.

    Vjek, I disagree. Those are not opposing positions. You can have both (although I admit that is subjective). Kilsin usually gives context to it all, as he did here.

    I've never taken issue or been confused by @Kilsin separating personal opinion from VR stance. He does this all the time - both in interviews and social media posts. If he outright says, "personal opinion.... blah blah" how is that confusing for you? I appreciate the fact that these folks are human and not VR robots. IMO it's rather disingenuous for any VR employee to act like they are 100% agreeance with everything development related or to refuse to ever give their personal opinion.

    Even Joppa sometimes gives a personal take that is a bit off of VR direction. ie."I wish we could do it this way, but it's not realistic because..."

     

    vjek said:

    Please, in the future, use a different account to post your personal opinions (How about 'Kilsin-Personal'?), or place a very large unmistakable visual separator, in your posts, between what is official company design and what is your personal opinion, especially, as in this case, where those opinions do not align, logically.

    I respectfully disagree. I would not like that approach. It would feel off. Simply for me, it would tear down at the foundation of trust I have with VR, rather than continue to strenghten it.


    This post was edited by Kass at July 11, 2021 5:23 PM PDT