The content creator's, which I mean to reference players like Bazgrim, Pantheon Plus, Def, Nathan Naplam, etc.. are all in my humble opinon ruining the image of Pantheon. Let me explain:
I "played" with most of these people in Everquest 2, when they released a timelock server. And Nathan Naplam made "The Naplam Knights". These guys never actully played, and when they did play it was only to the benefit of themselves and what content they could make for their channels. Not because they loved the game or the community or actually interacted with the community in any real way. But it was purely to make a form of cookie cutter content, and then log out. They took the game they package it up into content that they then profit off by views and hype from the player community. But none of this is to drive interest in the game, it's all self interest in driving up views that they again personally profit from. And that's the heart of the problem. They aren't there for the game Pantheon, they are there to profit off the game. I'd really like to see VR turn away from these content creators and make more fresh self made content that would not involve these people. I'd be much more interested in seeing the game displayed in a fully fleshed out content view from the company people who could show case these systems then these people who's personal interest don't line up with the community as a whole. Content creators are not the community, and they are not the voices I want to hear.
These videos they have been making with Perkins where they explain and talk with the actual creator's of the game have been a huge step in the right direction.
This will likely be locked but:
1. Thats all youtube content creators, show me any other hobby genre of youtube and the content creators there are just as bad. Even the anitubers for Chinese cartoons are in it for themselves.
2. Outside of the times that VR has allowed them to release their gameplay videos from pre-alpha that they are already pledged for anyhow VR hasnt really used them for any major streams. The streams with Joppa you mentioned are the only streams done via the VR channel
3. All of the listed creators have repeated many times that they are not affiliated with VR in any business way.
Not that I'm defending the Youtube culture that we live in but if you think youd be a better voice for the rest of us then start a channel and join the club.
I think everyone wants to benefit from Pantheon. I would say all of those folks you mention spread the word about Pantheon in a more grass roots way. Everyone who posts or replies on the forums, wants Pantheon developed in a certain way. Streamers work just as hard as the next guy. It's a bit of a craft.
Besides you don't even mention specifics, just dropping names and generalizations. It all very vague, sounds like these is more to understand in-between the lines.
I'm not sure a discussion like this would have to be locked if there was more substance, but you lack any/all specifics to actually call out any of the named content creators character. You gave one anecdotal example with no context.
I do understand the sentiment, but I don't understand how you think they are ruining the game? The more content, the more gamers that get to see what Patheon brings to the table and keep the discussions going around the game.
Yes, Yes, Bazgrim is playing the long con. Very soon his years of triple digit view videos will pay off. He's playing us all. Using our game against us... or Maybe he loves the vision and passionately supports Patheon with a hybrid fan/jouranlistic approach in earnest.
PatheonPlus only makes money off of donations basically. It seems like a lot of it comes back to the community in giveaways and more content, but I don't plan on auditing them regardless. If Patheon gets big and their channel booms, they've earned it, regardless of what you might assume of their business-like building approach or intent.
I'd much rather see the current folks channels make big money than some prolific content creator coming over to Patheon once the game goes live, but that is probably inevitable.
These guys spend a lot of their own time creating content for Pantheon:Rise of the Fallen - a process which entails much time and effort (just editing a short video to make it ready for upload can take 1-2+ hours after all the recording is done).
1. This is done in addition to regular jobs etc.
Things like playing on a TLP server etc are in addition to everything above.
2. They get very little praise for the work they do ....
.... and, regardless of perceived motive, they raise awareness in the game.
3. They often attract abuse
- on the internet it is easier to troll/be negative than to actually support.
Personally, I rate them 'B+'
[Reason: Not enough hate for Gnomes. You must do better, guys!]
But... (Intro music plays in the background)
"In 2017 a crack content creator unit was sent to work by a Game Developer for an idea they didn't reject. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security tumbler stockade to the YouTube underground. Today, still wanted by the 'casual gamers', they survive as Independent Cntent Creators. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can join the Creator-Team."
Hope that helps.
TL;DR - If you want better content creaters ... then be that better content creator! I double dare you!
Evoras the Summoner
Working his pets to to death since 1999
I really hate to hear that this is how you feel about the work and time it takes us to make the content we do. Since I was personally attacked for the guild in EQ2 on a TLP server, I want to step in and say that I talk to people literally all the time that were a part of that guild and had a ton of fun grouping up and playing with me and others in the community. Many actually tell me it was their favorite times in an MMO to date. I'm currently playing in a guild in EQ1 on a TLP server and we also have the Knights of Napalm going. We go on Raids on Saturdays, and all the gear that myself and my group get while we are streaming and playing together gets passed back out to the community. Of course if I'm playing a game I have to make content off of it. There is no choice when I work my real job 55-60 hours a week, work on projects for the channel (one in which I have been working on for over a year, just for one video!) So now, when I game, I have to also find a way to make content from it, because there are almost 10,000 people that want to see what I'm doing and what games I'm playing and how I feel about them.
To somehow make this about I'm using Pantheon, after covering it for years passionately, talking about it in all my streams, answering questions from the community, I just don't know what to say, I guess I'm wondering how you think I'm benefitting exactly?
TLDR: I have to make content from games I play, because my small amount of time to play games would replace making content if I didn't do so, and I am incredibly saddened that you are turning that against me.
I suspect/hope the OP is trolling, but in case he isn't and for the same content creators he calls out I wanted to throw in my 2cp.
I couldn't disagree with you more especially about what I've seen from Pantheon's content creators. Most seem to truly enjoy doing what they do and do it from a sense of passion and community building. I've watched Nathan's EQ1 TLP videos recently while working and he's never once pandered for a donation. He of course gives thanks for any he receives, but the point of the stream is for entertainment and bringing people together which I definitely thank him for as it's made my recent work days go by much faster. As much time and effort as he obviously puts into these and all of the other videos can only come from the enjoyment he gets out of them and not the small amount of money people donate.
If you don't like their content then don't bother watching. It's not a difficult decision. For the rest of us, their content is a great source of entertainment, information, news (Baz Flash!) and a way to have a sense of community between official VR news releases. I hope VR continues their relationship with these content creators and carries it well past release.
Another community streamer event would be awesome! I've rewatched the one from March multiple times from each of the streamer's perspective. Either way, I certainly hope each of the streamers continues putting out their content and if they develop a brand or receive money from all of the numerous hours they have to put into their content then even better.
Thank you to Nathan, Bazgrim, Minus, Therek, Draq, and anyone else who spends their time building this community and making the wait for Pantheon that much more enjoyable!
thenathannapalm said:Since I was personally attacked for the guild in EQ2 on a TLP server, I want to step in and say that I talk to people literally all the time that were a part of that guild and had a ton of fun grouping up and playing with me and others in the community.
Alright well Taichang interesting to meet you again, while I was moving states and training for my new position in the company I work for, the officers were taking over the guild, kicked me out and I haven't played EQ2 seriously since. I was not in groups just with content creators, I was streaming the game with random people in the guild that joined me from the stream itself. I have to lock the conversation when streaming in order to protect myself from being banned for someone random saying something I can't control. But everyone I played with, every night I played and streamed were not content creators besides the one night I played with Minus and some others. I gave rights to several officers to be leaders while I was dealing with my training and moving my family. During that time, I was kicked from the guild and the guild went on to be renamed and I do not know what happened from there. I dusted myself off, haven't said anything bad about the people that did me dirty and moved on as did most of the members that were there. Whether you were involved with the takeover or not, do not pretend that I was doing anything but playing with people in the guild, that's all I did in my time there and there are many from that guild can tell the story much different than what you have described.
I was not part of the overthrow, I left way ahead of that after we couldn't get anything in the guild done properly because we had no controls over the functions of the guild. Like I've said this was never meant to be an attack, it's purpose was to be a comment on how content creators use the games (not just yourself, but all content creators) in all games like Pantheon, like World of Warcraft, like FFXIV. To your own personal gains. I get that you want to make content I'm not trying to take that away from anyone. But the content is monitized, and does recieve special treatment from VR (and other companies). And those faces like it or not, do benefit from exposure. The reason why I used you as an expamle is because it was something I didn't just speak off the cuff about. How our community was effected and viewed as a means to an end.
Again, this isn't about you personally. I would just rather see them make content about the game, not uplift "special" players.
I understand your point of view, but besides being allowed one time to play Castle Deviare and show off the gameplay to the community in an organic natural way (something developers can't do) and getting a ton of exposure and joy from the community, we haven't gotten any special treatment, nor have we asked for it. For years of promoting Pantheon and consistently bringing them new pledges and interested folk as we blast YouTube with content that shows up in their feeds over time, (of course I'm a little biased I am a content creator) I don't think it is too bizarre for us to be allowed once in a while to show off something to the community when it benefits from being content that is best shown naturally from people not on the inside. Of course, I believe someone like Cohh makes a larger impact and he has been streaming and showing off the game since the beginning, which makes sense, his audience is HUGE and come from many different games.
But asking for VR to do more showing off inhouse is definitely something I think we need more of too because they can speak more deeply on exactly what is happening, where as outsiders like myself can comment more on how it feels or how it interacts (not knowing the ins and outs of the coding etc).
One thing I think you aren't mentioning here is how WE are exposing Pantheon to wider audiences, not the other way around. Join a stream of mine anytime and you will find tons of people saying how they found out about Pantheon because of me or another content creator.
And that's why I do what I do, I want to bring more and more into the fold. Even when making videos about other games, I typically tie it into something to drive the viewer to Pantheon. I don't get anything out of it besides .001 of a cent from the ad. Honestly, ads are more to help YouTube show it to a wider audience and recommend it more because if they are making money they will push your video out more and less to do with personal benefit than you might think.
YouTubers such as myself, Baz, Pantheon Plus etc aren't making hardly anything for what we do, do a little research and you will see that it's true.
Hey guys, I'm going to lock this for a few reasons but mainly because it seems like a personal issue between you guys and this is not a place to discuss it. I was fine with the initial thread, as the OP is entitled to his/her opinion and it's an interesting topic but it got derailed quickly and I don't see it being easily recovered.
Something to note from our point of view, as a company: We plan on making more of our own content and are in the process of hiring a Content Creator to help us in that area. Up until now though, Content Creators like Nathan, Baz, P+ and others have been a huge help to us by providing that content for us out of a desire to see us succeed and doing streams like "Fortress DeViare" was our way of saying thank you and giving back, while also marketing the game to multiple audiences at once, it was a mutual benefit to all involved and we had a lot of fun doing it.
As Evoras so elegantly said, "These guys spend a lot of their own time creating content for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - a process which entails much time and effort (just editing a short video to make it ready for upload can take 1-2+ hours after all the recording is done). If you want better content creators ... then be that better content creator! I double dare you!"
I appreciate the different opinions but in the current digital media times, Content Creators are here to stay and we will continue to work with them if we think it will benefit our company, our game or our community while striving to put out most of the content ourselves.
Stay tuned for the new hire announcement involving the Content Creator position :)