Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Running away

    • 729 posts
    June 4, 2021 1:10 PM PDT

    Hello.  I watched the stream detailing some of the ai and NPC combat. 

    So, when I run away how aggressive will the NPCs pursue?

    Is there an NPC that will itself just be relieved I ran away?

    How often can I run away without being labeled a wimpy limp noodle? 

     

    Thank you

     

    • 1020 posts
    June 4, 2021 1:11 PM PDT

    StoneFish said:

    Is there an NPC that will itself just be relieved I ran away?

     

    Hahahaha

    • 1860 posts
    June 4, 2021 1:31 PM PDT

    They have talked about NPC leashing being based on the specific mob.  For example, undead will likely follow you until you zone.  Other mobs will leash at a variety distances depending.  

    • 24 posts
    June 4, 2021 2:59 PM PDT

    get your /train macros ready

    • 94 posts
    June 4, 2021 3:49 PM PDT

    I'm waiting to see the cowardly* disposition in effect. I think this might show what you are talking about when you mention NPCs not pursuing you, but I would imagine there will be other consequences :)

     

    *Should've been alarmist.


    This post was edited by Edaemus at June 9, 2021 2:21 PM PDT
    • 2138 posts
    June 4, 2021 7:45 PM PDT

    I think its negated if you have a bard singing appropriate songs, Monty python comes to mind: "Brave sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away, away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes Brave sir Robin turned about, and gallantly he chickened out..." XD

    • 2144 posts
    June 4, 2021 10:09 PM PDT

    *bangs coconut shells together rhythmically*

    • 50 posts
    June 5, 2021 2:33 AM PDT

    Cowardly town crier disposition, does not pursue but instead gathers a train that will hone in on your position in 5-10 minutes 

    • 7 posts
    June 5, 2021 2:48 AM PDT

    Kittik said:

    StoneFish said:

    Is there an NPC that will itself just be relieved I ran away?

     

    Hahahaha

    Hahahahaha

    • 1281 posts
    June 5, 2021 10:02 AM PDT

    Couldn't this tie into disposition system, or be based on NPC type?

    Some type of territorial enemy, maybe animal based, may just chase you until you leave the area. Others, like mindless undead, may chase you forever (or until their limbs fall off).

    • 256 posts
    June 5, 2021 3:57 PM PDT

    I think for the most part mob aggro range is being handled like it is in EQ. There may be certain mobs that will reset after you run away a certain distance, but for the most part, it's going to be: kill, be killed, zone, or use a class ability like FD which allows aggro drop. 


    This post was edited by FatedEmperor at June 5, 2021 3:57 PM PDT
    • 3852 posts
    June 6, 2021 7:55 AM PDT

    A related question may be whether mobs will follow you into places like cities, forts, towns and the like. Something only a mindless enemy would be likely to do under any realistic circumstances. Certainly not most animals or any sentient unless coerced to do so.

    Unless town guards and soldiers are programmed to let any enemies in without resistance which is also imperfectly logical.

    • 690 posts
    June 7, 2021 4:09 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    A related question may be whether mobs will follow you into places like cities, forts, towns and the like. Something only a mindless enemy would be likely to do under any realistic circumstances. Certainly not most animals or any sentient unless coerced to do so.

    Unless town guards and soldiers are programmed to let any enemies in without resistance which is also imperfectly logical.

    We all want an incredible amount of things in this game that are unrealistic/illogical.

    However, Sometimes people use guards to get rid of things like placeholders for rare spawns, and it's a simple enough change to make, so I don't see why not.

    I would vote that enemies do still follow you into wandering guards, and, like you mentioned, mindless/enraged mobs still follow you into cities just fine.


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at June 7, 2021 4:10 AM PDT
    • 888 posts
    June 9, 2021 10:17 AM PDT
    I hope for realistic-feeling aggro logic. Some creatures chasing us to zone and some being territorial.
    • Some mobs should base their willingness to chase you based on how injured they are (something almost dead itself being far less likely to persue).
    • Who started the combat? They should be more angry with you if you attacked them first.
    • Did you kill any of their allies? And how close were they to that ally? A brigand is going to care far less about getting revenge than a mother bear whose cubs you just murdered.
    • 2419 posts
    June 9, 2021 4:57 PM PDT

    Counterfleche said: I hope for realistic-feeling aggro logic. Some creatures chasing us to zone and some being territorial. • Some mobs should base their willingness to chase you based on how injured they are (something almost dead itself being far less likely to persue). • Who started the combat? They should be more angry with you if you attacked them first. • Did you kill any of their allies? And how close were they to that ally? A brigand is going to care far less about getting revenge than a mother bear whose cubs you just murdered.

    I find it funny that your 'realistic feeling aggro logic' only applies to NPCs running away.  And not, say, a single solitary NPC just immediately running when facing 6 players; or a NPC who is just a few meters away completely ignoring one of their own getting murdered because their aggro radius dictates they cannot do anything; or NPCs all not just going for the healer.  I could go on...

    If you want to talk realistic aggro, where mobs decide to stop chasing or not is the least consequential out of the entire set of combat mechanics.

    But, personally, I want all mobs to chase us to the zonelines. Why? Because players need to commit to the fight.  Defeat it or die. The ability to run away by having NPCs leash is such an easily exploitable mechanic.  Look at any game that has leashed mobs and you'll see just how trivial it is to traverse the game world. You want to cheese your way past trash mobs to the boss?  Get a game with leashed NPCs.  No thanks.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at June 9, 2021 4:57 PM PDT
    • 729 posts
    June 9, 2021 11:11 PM PDT

    @Vandraad: Of course one could make the counter-argument that being able to zone to drop aggro is just as much as exploitable and meta-gamey.

    I would prefer mobs with different leash-logics as suggested above. Animals could leash early. Undead mobs? Leash never! Probably the same for dungeon mobs.

    And why not have different rules for leashing for intelligent NPCs? I don't imagine it being too difficult to implement several "leash-modes". With the amount of conditions NPCs can check during fights, it should be doable.

    • 24 posts
    June 10, 2021 5:17 AM PDT

    • 888 posts
    June 10, 2021 10:26 AM PDT
    @Vandraad, I was only referencing characters running away from combat because that is what @StoneFish created this thread to discuss. But since you brought it up, allow me to state my opinion as you don't have to make one up for me.

    NPCs running away at the start of combat isn't fun and should be used very sparingly. This is an instance where fun and realism conflict, so fun needs to win out because this is a high fantasy MMO, not a sim. Now, it that solitary NPC ran away but then came back with a bunch of friends, that would be simultaneously realistic and more fun. It would add to the tactics involved because you would try to keep him from fleeing and, if you failed, you would have to deal with the consequences.

    I never liked how ridiculously short the aggro / awareness range is in MMOs. I would love to see adds join a fight if they can see the fight, even if they are way outside aggro range. I didn't bring this up because it wasn't the subject of this thread, but I'm glad you did since it should be discussed. A fixed, short aggro range is horribly unrealistic and it leads to lots of meta-gaming where players can go AFK only slightly out of range and be safe. The aggro range should be much farther and if a NPC can see a character, that NPC's aggro range should increase over time. This simulates the behavior of them seeing you far off and becoming more suspicious of you the longer you linger in their territory.

    And as far as exploiting any leashing mechanic, that could be addressed in a few ways. If the NPC is gaining ground or continuing to damage you, the leash doesn't kick in as easily. And a no-leash mechanic is also exploitable, too.

    I like consequences, but to me it's important that they feel realistic to the game world and aren't always the same. Every NPC having the same chase logic always struck me as bad AI and it causes us to meta-game it. You and I want different approaches because we want different things.