@sinister joint
I'm going to ignore the insults and name calling and putting words in my mouth about things I never said .
Ill focus on the things that you said that are accurate. Namely that there have been very few games with purely open world raiding.
On this forum you will find it common that people raided heavily in early EQ prior to ldon when the game became instanced. Brad is the reason why most of us who have been following Pantheon closely from the beginning are here. Brads EQ was one of those games. But you are right, those games are few and far between and that's one of the draws of Pantheon.
I'm wondering if some of the disconnect is simply not knowing what VRs stance is and not being familiar with official statements we have been given in the past?
Like Dorotea mentioned, there is a limit to the community policing policy and VR has always said they would step in and moderate situations that become harassment. I'm sure you can look up multiple quotes from kils and other VR members. That is a conversation that has had at least a few threads about it. It's not simply the wild west where anyone can do what they want without repercussions. VR members will step in if necessary.Are you aware that we have gotten general statements about how these things will be handled?
Also I mentioned it before but, are you aware the infamy system will allow guilds to earn the ability to spawn raid mobs? There will be other options besides competing for spawns. VR is known for creative work arounds like that. Locking door mechanics, dynamic raid scaling etc. So everyone who wants it will get a chance at raid targets even if they don't mobilize efficiently enough to engage the standard open world targets.
We do feel differently about the competition aspect though it seems. An open world mob is there for anyone to engage. Everyone has the same opportunity to it as everyone else.
That is fair.
(Unless they are using 3rd party programs to artificially gain an advantage...that's a whole other discussion. We can just say that VR has taken a stance against that and hopefully they can regulate it) .
In an open world game the team work and being efficient as a guild matters in more than just the fight itself. Ill repeat myself, mobilizing efficiently as a guild is a learned skill. It can be practiced and improved.
A quick example: in early EQ my guild was losing out on raid targets constantly at one point. The leaders decided we needed to practice mobilizing. They called fake raids for mobs that weren't up and timed how long it took for the guilds members to get to a set spot in the world. After multiple practice runs we greatly improved our efficiency and we rarely lost out on targets after that. It's a fantastic experience being a well oiled machine that can get 50-100 people anywhere in the world in under 10 mins flat. It takes teamwork, coordination, leadership, dedication etc.
Being good in open world games is about more than just the fight itself.
I think you probably disagree with that...which is fine if you do.
I know you have limited experience on this forum and we haven't had conversations in the past or I think you would probably come at this differently. Judging by your picture I'm at least a decade older than you and possibly 2. I wouldn't be making statements about something I haven't experienced.
Kilsin said:What are your thoughts? Can it work? Do you like it better? Or are you a full open-world kind of gamer who despises any kind of instancing in games like Pantheon? Let us know why down below! #MMORPG #CommunityMatters
Ideally, I'd like everything to be open-world. All the unexpected things that can occur when you're sharing a common world with everyone else on the server -- even if some of them are inconvenient -- make the game feel so much more real. The only caveat might be if instance-free raiding becomes problematic, with guilds locking down content or stealing a raid encounter that another guild initiated. I've never been heavily involved enough in open-world raiding to have any useful ideas on how to prevent things like that. But if there are ways to address such issues effectively, I say open-world is always preferable to instancing.
philo said:@sinister joint
I'm going to ignore the insults and name calling and putting words in my mouth about things I never said .
Ill focus on the things that you said that are accurate. Namely that there have been very few games with purely open world raiding.
On this forum you will find it common that people raided heavily in early EQ prior to ldon when the game became instanced. Brad is the reason why most of us who have been following Pantheon closely from the beginning are here. Brads EQ was one of those games. But you are right, those games are few and far between and that's one of the draws of Pantheon.
I'm wondering if some of the disconnect is simply not knowing what VRs stance is and not being familiar with official statements we have been given in the past?
Like Dorotea mentioned, there is a limit to the community policing policy and VR has always said they would step in and moderate situations that become harassment. I'm sure you can look up multiple quotes from kils and other VR members. That is a conversation that has had at least a few threads about it. It's not simply the wild west where anyone can do what they want without repercussions. VR members will step in if necessary.Are you aware that we have gotten general statements about how these things will be handled?
Also I mentioned it before but, are you aware the infamy system will allow guilds to earn the ability to spawn raid mobs? There will be other options besides competing for spawns. VR is known for creative work arounds like that. Locking door mechanics, dynamic raid scaling etc. So everyone who wants it will get a chance at raid targets even if they don't mobilize efficiently enough to engage the standard open world targets.
We do feel differently about the competition aspect though it seems. An open world mob is there for anyone to engage. Everyone has the same opportunity to it as everyone else.
That is fair.
(Unless they are using 3rd party programs to artificially gain an advantage...that's a whole other discussion. We can just say that VR has taken a stance against that and hopefully they can regulate it) .
In an open world game the team work and being efficient as a guild matters in more than just the fight itself. Ill repeat myself, mobilizing efficiently as a guild is a learned skill. It can be practiced and improved.
A quick example: in early EQ my guild was losing out on raid targets constantly at one point. The leaders decided we needed to practice mobilizing. They called fake raids for mobs that weren't up and timed how long it took for the guilds members to get to a set spot in the world. After multiple practice runs we greatly improved our efficiency and we rarely lost out on targets after that. It's a fantastic experience being a well oiled machine that can get 50-100 people anywhere in the world in under 10 mins flat. It takes teamwork, coordination, leadership, dedication etc.
Being good in open world games is about more than just the fight itself.
I think you probably disagree with that...which is fine if you do.
I know you have limited experience on this forum and we haven't had conversations in the past or I think you would probably come at this differently. Judging by your picture I'm at least a decade older than you and possibly 2. I wouldn't be making statements about something I haven't experienced.
What insults? What name did I call you? What word did I put in your mouth? I call it how it is, you dance around what I say to add more straw. You clearly aren't reading because ive more than once said what I feel an open world game is. I'll quote it but I dont think you would even read it.
SinisterJoint said:You come to this game to have a DANGEROUS world to traverse with the looming danger and risk of death. Also to group with 50 of your friends to kill big ass mobs for loot.
THAT is open world, just because raids are instanced does NOT change that... only in your head it does.
What is VR known for? Pantheon... and it hasn't released. Do you mean the verant days? As far as their creativity, you only know what we all already know so simply saying it doesn't make it so.
I beta tested EQ btw, I hardcore raided from launch all the way to VoA. Please I know how it all works, from being killed by snakes and having to fetch my corpse in PoFear... to a deathloop taking me from 36 to 12 at fort Rygor. I know what open world is, but you however have a seemingly skewed vision of it. You say its fair grounds being open world raid targets but its really NOT. Like ive said so many times that YOU JUST IGNORE lol.
It will come down to which guild has the most members, which guilds can raid 24/7 and the rest of the population's guilds suffer. But yea, thats a healthy competition. Zero skill is required for that. You show your inexperience in these remarks btw.
Judging by the Picture of me getting some chemo you "can tell" you're 2 decades older than me? (would make you 65 btw) What does age have to do with this conversation?
I know the bracket that follows this game but you have to put the glasses down for a second. It just wont work in today's age with 100% open world. People have lives, and not all can be on 24/7 (which requires ZERO SKILL). It will only divide each server. People want to raid and should not be limited by toxic behaviour. Besides experiencing it yourself (if you played eq that long you would have seen it) You still think that it's "competitive".
No, thats not competitive, its toxic. and it only gets worse, which you also should have seen. LDON was instanced BECAUSE they were missions and random ones at that in the same zones. (so instead of making 50 zones, they made 10 instances)
My experience on these forums? Oh because I dont have 1954 posts means i dont read the forums right? Reading and speaking only when it means something to you is way more productive than trying to put your finger on everything.
Also, you never even mentioned the fact that they can still have both open world raid mobs and the same "fights" in an instance.. thats how eq did it. I mean you seem to want a carbon copy of EQ pre kunark. Maybe you should try and find some other 100% open world game (by your standards not mine) but they dont exist. There is a reason they dont exist... you want to know that reason?
Look, it just wont work 100%, they can easily stick to 99% while having both versions in game. Even then, guess what those guilds will be doing? Their guaranteed instance to gear the guild. You can stick to "practicing mobilzation" 90% of the other would rather have a raid SCHEDULE.. which is IMPOSSIBLE the way you want it.
Guild raid schedules have been around a LONG time...funny you don't remember any of that being such an "experienced" mmo veteran. Turning a blind eye to reality does not change it.
philo said: I'm wondering if some of the disconnect is simply not knowing what VRs stance is and not being familiar with official statements we have been given in the past?
There is zero disconnect, but I will bring this to your attention. This thread was started by a dev, Why do you think they're asking? Look forward instead of backward.
philo said:
Being good in open world games is about more than just the fight itself.
I think you probably disagree with that...which is fine if you do.
You raid for gear... unless there is lore to enjoy(loved the dialogue from old mobs in the eq days) But here is the thing, how can you say being good in an mmo is more than just the fight (i agree its about the journey) It's only competitive if its open world, there is NO JOURNEY in spawn camping and on call raiding. The journey PROGRESSING through the raid arc (if there is one), flags for higher zones etc, the journey is HAVING FUN with your friends!
How many guilds are having fun when one guild is holding them back from THEIR journey.. see how this goes? It's not going to promote anything positive, actually promotes a more UNHEALTHY lifestyle <- (FACT)
SinisterJoint said:My opinion on this is...Raids require instancing, plain and simple. If they aren't it will literally BREED toxicity.
As far as everything else, names and dungeon bosses (note i didnt say raid targets) be left in the open world.
Also that idea (it better only be an idea because its STUPID as heck) which only "raid guilds" get the luxury of a first to engage protection... is also just a system to breed toxicity.
You can't single out a group because it's a large force (thats all a raid really is) and give them "benefits" that the rest of the population doesn't have. The end of the day a raid target in your world is just another camp mob and should render zero protection right?
This whole "there is no camps" stance is just a way of shruggin off the problem of toxic players. All it does is invite more gray area things that toxic players will find holes in.
The only thing systems like that breed are things you don't want in your community...a bunch of epeens and toxic players/shite guild leaders running around yelling
"THeRe uISH NAO CampS, thesh devs said sohhh...hehehthehe"
Anyone who played EQ when PoP came out in EQ will know what cockblocking toxicity does... it does shite for the community
Completely agree.
