i really like the idea of manually aiming skill shots or things that allow for more player expression.
the recent *dev talk* of the hybrid skillshot really got me thinking about other classes that could have this type mechanic.
for tanks something like perfect block
lets say block ability reduces all damage taken by 50% for 3 seconds.
the tank times a perfect block when he uses it to defend against a special attack within a .5 second window and gets a bonus effect of reducing damage by 75% for 5 seconds.
for wizard combo incantation.
fireball normally goes off in 3 seconds.
say casting another spell hitting a sweet spot in the 1.5 cast bar timing the combines of the the two spells in a .25 second window. if they miss the window, the cost of mana still is lost and the bonus does not trigger, however the main spell will still go off. it could even be more intricate like the combo spell must be half the cast time of the starting spell so i cant randomly combine op spells. certain spells can be limited to have this mechanic too.
for monk something perfect excecution.
if they build up combo points in a certain rhythm they get a bonus effect at the combo spender.
the point is that sometimes in situations, these combat mechanics challenge there skill during repetitive combat loops. it could be have major drawbacks like wizard so they need to choose if they can be focused enough to hit the sweet spot or just let the spell go off normally.
b4 the whole arguement of ddr and this is not a fighting game fps shooter starts pelting me, i want to pose three questions.
if given an opportunity to excel at little would i want a chance to take it?
what other type of combat mechanic would i want to see to better express my playstyle?
is stellar really a boomer because he's dropping all these zoomer stuff?
@Stellarmind where did you see the showcase of the manually aimed shot? (if I understood you correctly)
I too am very intereisted in this shot and any more info on it, to actually SEE it in action, more so than even the ever over hyped perception system they are always pushing. But I've never seen the manually aimed shot.
Although I'm with you on the excitement for it, I'm not with you on your suggested implementation of a skill for the warrior, yes he needs one but not a timmed combo, it's not the same as aimed.
From the Ranger Class Page "This ability can be manually aimed for increased damage."
As should the Warrior's be, a Manually Aimed uppercut to the chin that knokes the mob on his butt, or a Solar Plexus shot that winds him for X-seconds or something..... not a timed combo, thats totally differant
The Wizard, and aimed fireball of course.
Nothing against timed combo's as well... but they arent the same as the manully aimed shot for the ranger.. not even close, a whole different skillset.
My understanding is VR has expressly been against this type of thing and are going back to longer cast abilities to focus on tactics and not split second responses. No button mashing or half second cast times needing interrupted. All of these ideas seem to go against that previously stated goal. I would play a fully skill based MMO, but personally feel like they can't make skill based shots better than other abilities without alienating the part of the playerbase fully against them. Mixing the two has always seemed like a bad idea.
The ranger attack has always stuck out as an oddity to me, curious how it plays out.
@Zorkon Fireballs will be aimed with a drag and drop mechanic. They had a demo of it quite a while back showing how their targeted aoe works in various terrain allowing or overcoming cover and how it can be fired at least slightly against a climbable surface, but I imagine it could be fired directly into the climbable surface.
They also have shown off how repeatedly casting spells can increase the cast timer of the spells and the animations quicken automatically to fit if I remember correctly.
@zorkon oops i misworded. it was in a dev stream where they TALKED about it not a showcase mb. it was joppa i think??? i need to edit my post as to not jabaited ppl.
yea so i dont think it should just be manual aiming. there was a older post how it would be cool to have locational damage for hybrid manual aiming type of players, but that would probably be too much for the traditional mmoers. also might be much to put into for every mob. could be reserved for raid boss designs.
my reasoning is that, after doing a raid even dungeon crawling for sometime. its the same rotation over and over with no extra bitties to wet the willies. im essentially as good as every human player without being able to distinguish myself.
basically the option is there to excel, however, it should be intensive to do consistently. to drop some numbers, the average gamer can react within a .25 second window, can add another .25 because of latency. there was an article talking about how pro gamers can react in a .14 second window. i cant even imagine that, but it would be exciting to see not just pvpers but raiders push dps practice for competitive viewing.
i think the old school slower combat is fine, but its important to attract younger players with ways in which they can be engaged within the slower combat. this is more about reaching out to younger gamers to get them interested in the next gen of mmos. its not very fun to hit one button every 5 seconds to cast a spell or to hit the same sequence on the music sheet. there should be elements that lets me throw a bit of spizazz like dropping a diddy bop in a doo woop.
take a group of friends for example. jimmy is a complete noob player and can get the basics of the slower pace combat.
tommy tho, hes a bad mamba jamba top 10 player in fortnite kickin badunks taking names. if he just did the slow combat, he is going drop the game pretty fast and jimmy being a bbf wont play anymore.
bob is somewhere being experienced with mmos and looking for ways to become better outside of just getting better gear. he's got alot of experience playing fighting games
i wouldnt touch healers tho. i can take two players playing the same class with equal gear and instantly tell whos a better healer. the skill ceiling for healers has always been high. pretty much a shame they get treated like trash.
to be realistic and completely honest, most new or mmos that are coming out are action based for a reason. its fun to watch and engage in. i think being completely set in a traditional slow pace combat without some hybridization is fools gold, no offense.
its just ive played so many mmos that have the traditional combat systems just sped up to keep it exciting, which oddly enuff is boring. maybe im also tired of "gear checks", gearscore, and hard requirements. i would like to see them be soft reqs, and if i put in time to excel, i can push the class to 110% or even 120 if im a young whipper snapper.
I get what you are saying but to state a point that is put across many times, this game will not be for everyone and is not being advertised as a mass market MMO. One of the biggest draws of this MMO is that it is tab target and not action. There is another MMO in development with a big budget which is trying a hybrid system.
Jobeson said:My understanding is VR has expressly been against this type of thing and are going back to longer cast abilities to focus on tactics and not split second responses. No button mashing or half second cast times needing interrupted. All of these ideas seem to go against that previously stated goal. I would play a fully skill based MMO, but personally feel like they can't make skill based shots better than other abilities without alienating the part of the playerbase fully against them. Mixing the two has always seemed like a bad idea.
The shield block mechanic where players have to time when the mob is doing their large attack/devastating blow in order to block it would seem counter to that idea. We will have to see how it ends up playing out. For now it seems like timing your shield block well will be the difference between an average tank and a good tank.
philo said:The shield block mechanic where players have to time when the mob is doing their large attack/devastating blow in order to block it would seem counter to that idea.
What shield block mechanic? I have not seen them talk about this before.
Do you mean the short duration warrior ability that lasts a few seconds? If so the few second window makes it fine. I used to play a monk in EQ2 where you had a one hit parry option. It was rough trying to set it up for one attack, but it was doable to block insanely high hits about 50% of the time. A second duration would be easy mode. Last I saw it was 2 seconds in Pantheon which falls into the slower paced combat idea.
Edit: going back to the discussion though...
A skill based shot has to be better than the non skill based shots in order to make sense mechanically. If not VR is just baiting players into a poor playstyle compared to the plethora of non skill based shots. Being higher DPS means it will be the most popular skill / skill tree to build around. There will be a few people who physically cannot use the skilled shot and there may be a few environments where it is worthless to select, but anyone trying to DPS will focus on maxing the potential of the player skill based attacks.
It may turn out not to be the highest DPS ability, but only the highest damage opener. The aimed shot gimmick would be known as worthless outside of PVP/soloing if this is the case but a fun mechanic to deal bonus damage or see high numbers. Enjoy the begging to increase its damage if that is the case.
It would be like if you could skip the crafting mini game and suffer no loss for doing it. People would be upset the minigame has nothing to gain even though you can botch your crafting.
Jobeson said:What shield block mechanic? I have not seen them talk about this before.
There were mentioned something along the lines in one of the streams - some time around november I think.
As for the main topic I certainly wouldn't be against it - the more engaging the fight the better.
"I love the fast paced reactionary combat MMOs are leaning towards"
And I hate, detest, abhor and abominate it. Plus ... I don't like it. This is why I won't even download New World however pretty it may look.
We have enough shooter type games where *player* reflexes, vision, and internet connection are king. Or queen. I hope Pantheon will be a more strategic and slower paced game where the heart of the game is building up a character and relying on the character's attributes, skills and equipment.
Even without aimed shots or timed blocks, we're still going to need to learn to react quickly to situations. Stopping a cast on a mob that the enchanter is trying to mez, taunting a mob off the healer, stunning or silencing a mob as it's about to cast a devistating spell, etc. There are going to be plenty of quick reaction situations for those that enjoy it. I personally don't want more than is already inherintly part of these types of games...I am paitnetly waiting to see what this ranger aimed shot is like, I hope it's not like a first person shooter game because I really like playing ranger classes in games but I hate FPS games, haha.