Hi everyone!
In most current MMORPGs, you are shepherded along from one area to another by the game's main story or by quest chains that you are pursuing. Indeed, many games go out of their way to make sure that you visit *every* region or zone at least for a short time, even if you don't necessarily do all of the "optional" content that's there.
As you know, Pantheon is not going to be that type of game. We're aiming for an open-world experience where you can freely explore and choose where to go next at any point, and where you will always have multiple choices available to you (at least as much as possible). There's a lot more emphasis on player agency here - you find your own adventures, rather than being guided to them by the game itself.
However, every good adventure needs a hook, and not every player responds to the same kind of hooks. This is especially true in an open world where we need to try to make each zone or region compelling or interesting for players instead of just relying on the overarching quest line to bring them there.
So my question for you all today is this: What motivates you, personally, to travel to new areas in an open world? What is it about a zone that really entices you to want to go there and see it for yourself?
Thanks in advance for your responses :)
This has been mentioned a few times in crafting discussions, but I am really fond of the idea of "ritualized" endeavors.
By that I mean specific advantages for doing things cooperatively in specific areas at specific times with specific skill sets. It is obviously FAR more complicated, but IMO adds so much more depth and meaning from a social gameplay aspect.
As an example: Blacksmith A gets a recipe to make Super Sword of Slaying. He can gather all the mats and craft it himself, and still get an awesome sword. However... If he gathers a group of players with different skill sets (an enchanter, a jewelcrafter, a keeper for that hidden knowledge, maybe even a specific combat class or two), and the go to location X during time Y, that sword now has a bunch of different/better/unique bonuses that would otherwise not be able to be obtained anywhere else.
I think the "lure" or hook becomes about what you can accomplish with many people vs what you can do on your own. I may be an outlier, but I think those kind of activities should also grant XP in the related role. I think there should be areas that reward cooperative play outside of combat (though it would likely be difficult to balance out so that it wasn't exploited).
In addition to that, I think the "standard stuff" is always a draw:
- Sense of exploration
- Unique challenges specific to an area
- Lore discovery
- Rare mobs/loot/drops/recipes/etc
- Unique faction
I guess my return question would be - why do you WANT me to go to that zone? What is its intent? What do you hope to accomplish, as a developer, by bringing me there?
While I don't want breadcrumbs, and I don't want my hand held, I do want "intentionality". Sometimes, just having a really beautiful location is its own rewards. However, there have been MANY times in games/MMO where I have gone to a location and thought "there should be something here".
In the end, I don't think it really matters that much what the hook is, as long as there is a hook. Be intentional, give it value (even if it is situational value), and let people decide if they want to go. There is potentially as much danger in thinking you HAVE to put out a carrot that appeals to everyone as there is in not putting out enough carrots.
I am so excited that Pentheon is not going to be that kind of game!
In no particular order I would travel to new zones:
1. Just to SEE it. For example, EQ the first time I saw the bridge in the Karana's I was amazed (may be silly to think of it as amazing these days, but it was at the time).
What we have seen of Thronefast is amazing. I'd travel there just to see it.
2. If an NPC talks to me about something in a different zone I'd want to follow up on that clue and go check it out.
3. If I have friends playing in a different zone I'd travel to play with them.
4. A quest - I would travel, even by foot if it took 2 hours, to work on a quest.
5. An item - If there's a certain item I'm trying to get I'd travel to where I think it is most likely to be found.
6. A challenge - Maybe someone mentions a mob that is super challenging, I'd go check it out even if I wasn't part of the raid group. Maybe just to watch...and try not to die watching!
7. Revenge! Going back to that challenge and getting my revenge!
8. To help someone out!
9. A special event
10. Turns out I'm really not that picky about travel haha. Sometimes I just go for the sake of going. Exploring, seeing, travelling itself is entertaining for me.
Edit: I'll add (in response to Finn's post now that I've read it). Is it OK for palces to exist in the world that people have no interest in? You go explore a cave and there's nothing there. Does there always have to be something there? Does it feel more real if there is sometimes nothing there?
Its the same as when I tavel over seas in real life for me, sure the pictures of Kyoto are great to look at but seeing the golden temple in person is a memory I love and will never forget.
I remember my brother in-law bringing the EQ map over before I got to play and I spent longer then I'd like to admit studying that map and I wasnt dissapointed when I finally got my High Elf to a lot of those places.
So for me its being a tourest and seeing these locations for myself.
Hooks
- Haverstable items or mobs to kill for a particular crafting item. This could also include special pools, waterfall, brooks, rivers for fishing different fish or items from fishing.
- Unique items from specific types of mobs or Named mobs that are part of a placeholder camp or roaming.
- Dungeon or ruins to explore.
- Great view, never ignore a great view.
- Lore, if one particular area has specific lore, I may go there to see some of the sights and sounds connected to this lore.
- Access to another area, so a sorta pass-through area, where I might find something neat as I am going through the area.
- Quest part/item or flagging for a quest, quest mob.
- Faction farming for items or mobs that help to gain more of faction X.
- Looking for Keeper information.
- Just simply being a completionist and wanting to see everything that I can see.
- Regional Markets or special vendors. If Dumpster Diving gets created in a decent way, then to look for NPCs for such.
- Exp Camps.
Will add more as I think of them.
Thanks,
Spof
What motivates you, personally, to travel to new areas in an open world? What is it about a zone that really entices you to want to go there and see it for yourself?
IMO:
A new, fun, challenging and thematically consistent biome.
Group-required content appropriate for the level of our group.
Factions.
Resources.
Nephele said:What motivates you, personally, to travel to new areas in an open world? What is it about a zone that really entices you to want to go there and see it for yourself?
Loot. Plain and simple. I go places to find out what drops there that will make my character better or the characters of my guild better. And if they don't, they get sold off to make me richer.
Its things that I find myself. The mountains you climb on your own offer the best view IMO :)
Practically though, it's often hearing rumors of good experience and loot. When I hear "Do you want to go to XY? It's great for exping", this can be reason enough to travel to a new zone and try the location.
A couple reasons which all seem pretty standard:
1) I out level an area or acquire what I'm looking for from the area so I move on.
2) I'm in search of some type of loot/quest item etc. that sends me to a new area.
I purposefully try not to move past an area where I can still acquire exp/loot. That usually ends up being a waste of time.
Lots of people are hitting the key points for me as well. What drives me to see other zones in an IDEAL world will be:
-Lore and atmosphere I can't find elsewhere in the game
-Quests and story. Like a bloodhound with my nose to the ground following up on clues
-Exploration and Adventure
However realistically, I feel you often end up going where the players go. If loot is TOO good in certain zones, XP comes easier than other places, etc... I hope we can avoid those traps and keep the entire world thriving and rich.
This has been one of my concerns with PRotF. I wholeheartedly agree with not handholding or directing players where to go and when, but the combination of that, with having no map, no type of visual que for quest NPCs and then the fact that some classes simply wont have the means to travel the realm with impunity thanks to invisibility/stealth, and you are going to have players that won't be able to (or have a reason to that outweighs the risk of) experiencing a vast majority of the game - assuming there will be hostile NPCs anywhere near the extent of EQ (or more) throughout the game.
To directly answer the OP (and highlight one of my concerns from above) - I typically want to 'un-gray' or 'discover' every area on my map when I play any game, but especially in an MMO. Even if I have to just dip a toe into a very hostile area to 'discover' the area on my map, I will do whatever it takes.
If there is no map, I fear that I won't even know what parts of the game I've explored and haven't... until I keep checking online for someone that had stealth/invis and time to map out the area and upload a 3rd party map...
Anyone that thinks they can really experience all of the game without a map is fooling themselves: If you can see the top of every mountain in the area from the tallest tower in a castle on another mountain, but see nothing on those mountains, you likely won't climb those mountains unless you're incredibly bored. On the other hand, if you walk all around a mountain, and there is a huge grey/undiscovered area on your map that requires you to climb the mountain (even if your skill isnt high enough yet)... gues what you're coming back to do when your skill is high enough? Even if there is absolutely nothing on that mountain, you will have a sense of satisfaction - and if there is something on that mountain, like a rare gathering material, you would feel even more fulfilled. Without a map, you may not even know the mountain is there if you didn't climb that specific tower in the first place (that could have been greyed out on your map until climbing it... :(
I go where the people and/or quests take me and enjoy the adventure along the way. If I'm queued in for a group and join one where they are leveling in an area I've never been, then I'll head that way and see new stuff along the way. Often times, a certain questline will have me going places I've never been and so I get to experience new places in that way too. I agree that the game shouldn't hold your hand, but there needs to be something that has you going places to explore. I typically don't do such things just for the sake of doing them, though maybe if I'm bored and just feeling adventurous. Most often, I just go where the groups take me or where I can get the best XP for my level range.
I think I've always been quite the explorer in those early MMOs.
A little trip down my memory lane of Everquest and what drove me to travel to distant places...
I started as a Monk in Freeport. My first drive to explore was when I heard about my first dungeon. It was some place out beyond the East Commonlands where the Puma's would eat you in like 2 hits and the Kodiak Bears's were no longer so Young. Of course I had to go take a look see...
I learned very quickly just how Blind Human's were and how leaving the torchlit areas meant you couldn't see more than your own feet. I remember following the path by staring down at my feet with quick glances up to look for threats. Eventually I figured out that enemies rarely roamed up near the zone wall and so I followed that West. There was a very scary moment where I came over the hill to find a Ruin of Undead and thus was born my dislike of Zombie movies :-) I was really glad when I found out about Greater Lightstones and got my hands on one.
Eventually I made it to West Commons and after much searching and Puma avoidance I actually discovered the cave that lead to my first dungeon... Befallen. I spent much time there.
While grouping up in Befallen, a groupmate told me about these awesome Rings that came from North Ro. So I had to go investigate. I discovered that these Dervish Cutthroat's would drop these Rings which had +2 Dex on them. So of course I had to get some.
But then I noticed on a Vendor in town that there was an Earring (Onyx Earring) somebody had sold to said Vendor that had +2 Agility on it. It was way too expensive for me to buy from this vendor but I really had to have one, so I asked around to find out where they came from and somebody mentioned that they came from Gnolls in the Blackburrow zone. It turned out that this was on the other side of the continent near Qeynos and was a long dangerous journey.
During my inquiries I learned that people were willing to pay 2 whole Gold pieces in order to have one too. I also learned through asking around that these Cutthroat Rings were not found over on that other side of the world. I thought to myself... 'If people here were willing to pay 2 Gold for an Earring that gave +2 Agi then maybe players over there would pay 2 Gold for a Ring that gave +2 Dex.' And thus a plan was hatched. I spent some time at the Dervish camps with various groups over many hours and filled up 2 Backpacks full of Cutthroat Rings. And then the journey began.
I think that very first time it took me about 6 hours to find my way across the continent to Qeynos. At this time there were very few people high enough level to be adventuring in places like High Hold Pass and so getting an invis to pass by the Orcs was not an option, so I ended up finding my way into Rivervale and out through RunnyEye and then a very harrowing and scary time in the Gorge of King Xorbb where the Minotaurs were huge and Evil Eyes looked very Evil indeed.
Not to mention my first time experiencing being Blinded by mud flinging Golems. That first time the entire screen went Black and I could hear Golems growling at me but couldn't see where I was running I thought my Heart was going to chug right out of my chest. I was only like level 12 or so and too low for Feign Death at this point and so was running like a crazy man trying to survive. When the screen came back I would find myself running full tilt into a wall and I had to reorient myself to get away from the Golems and not run straight into a Minotaur. So much fun...
Needless to say that there were many close calls and maybe a death or 2 along the way (I learned to get Bind Soul'd really quickly). I found that running across the Karana zones took ages. Why were the zones so long. I eventually made it to Qeynos and suddenly I was a Merchant.
It really only took me about 20 minutes to fully sell all of the Dervish Cutthroat rings at 2 Gold each or a trade for 3 Onyx Earrings, which were so common over in Qeynos that nobody thought this was an unfair trade. I had to buy another backpack or 2.
Once those bags were full of Onyx Earrings... I started the Journey home to Freeport. Another few hours later with various other close calls and I was back and cashing in on the high demand for Onyx Earrings. Suddenly I was one of the Rich folk and gained a special Privilege buff... just kidding... but I now had some coin to spend.
Unfortunately I was also falling behind on leveling up and I started hearing people talking about the Oasis of Marr and in particular there were these stories of this monster Crocodile named Lockjaw. I had to go see it. And so off I went to the Oasis. I was a little low still to be there, but I was an experienced traveller now and I knew how to keep my eyes peeled. I got into some groups and made a few levels and that is when I saw a Spectre for the first time. It was very scary and everyone ran from them. But I had to get a closer look. I found their island and low and behold I saw the most insane thing to date.
There was a level 35ish Bard there solo'ing these Spectre's using Snare+Fear. He would levitate out over the water and snag one and pull it across and then slaughter it. I almost dropped my Monk right there and started a Bard. At the time he was one of the highest level players in the game so I had to talk to him. Once the Bard noticed I was there and only like level 20ish or so, he first asked me if I was crazy, and then when I assured him I was just much too curious he started telling me about some of the cool places he'd been. Guk, and Najena, Unrest and Mistmoore...
Oh he had me hooked, and I had to go find them... and so I did. Unrest became my favourite zone.
As others have said... the stories of loot was a big motivator sometimes, but I think that quite often it was hearing about some cool new place or a crazy scary monster that made me move on to find it. Every time I found myself getting bored with camping the same area for hours (or even days) I would hear about something new that very few people had seen out in the world that I had to go get a look at and maybe try to kill. I also tended to do /who commands often and see the zonenames where people were in, and if I had never been there I'd try to track it down.
I actually was lucky and was there in Permafrost the very first time on any server that they took on Lady Vox. There were several GM's in attendance, including Aradune and while I wasn't in the raid group (still shy a bit on levels), I followed them as far as I could and actually got to see Lady Vox a few times when they were all dying and trying to escape. I really wish I had taken Screenshots of the event.
Many moons later I was there in Skyshrine on the day they awakened the Sleeper and I got many screenshots of Kerafyrm porting around Deathtouching everything. If I remember correctly it actually took 3 deathtouches to kill Lord Yelinak and I had screenshots of all of them (not sure where those screenshots are anymore haha, maybe I'll have to go looking).
Obviously I could probably go on and on, but this post is probably already longer than most people will tolerate.
#1 - Beauty of the world - I will spend time in cool looking places. Make something cool like those blue high sulfur lava fields (Please google it for inspiration devs) I will hang out where it looks cool and explore it all trying to find the coolest points in it, all the offshoots it is connected to etc.
#2 - Lore (treasure hunt) - I will go crazy exploring something in search for what I believe to be there. If there is a rumored secret chamber under the acidic lake I will repeatedly go spelunking to near death in an attempt to find it.
#3 - Impossible to reach vista - I see a place that has no obvious path to get to it, but it looks like a place intended for me to reach I will encircle the entire mountain to find the path. Face or hide from whatever beasts that block my path all to get there and look down on the people unable to climb up to me only to /queenwave at the peasants.
#4 - People, be it word of mouth, friends, easy groups. The simplest/safest zones closest to the city or teleporter with some ideal loot and friendly vendors are the most popular places.
Exploring the world is the best part of the MMO, I hope PCs never become gods to the lower level dangers to keep exploration meaningful. I know it wont happen since so many MMOs think you need to become a god in order to feel "progress" I just wish the entire 1-50 experience was effectively MonsterHunter type leveling and gearing up where you are clearly better but even a starting monster can kill you in a few attacks rounds.
So a point for what demotivates me from exploring a new place: KNOWING it is a worthless place by design now that I have outleveled it. There is no danger or joy to be found there, no real exploration. It is at best a quest or faction I feel pushed to pick up.
Adventure! Pure and simple. What's over that mountain? Where does that river flow? Is there land on the other side of this ocean? Exploring! I was born too late and I never made enough money to explore the unknown of planet Earth. And I was born to soon to explore the cosmos. So I chose to explore the best man made environments. Terminus is unknown to me. But I can explore this strange new world (tm). What is the Orc race like? How about the Skar? That's what I want. That's why I don't want to take on the same content over and over. That's why I will play alts. To understand Terminus. That's why I don't race to max level. That's why I don't care how long it takes to level. I'll be exploring.
Variety.
I'm subject to 'the usual' driver, ie. Sometimes a group will organically 'move' while simply leveling/progressing in order to fight stuff of appropriate level.
To be honest, I don't mind a few 'quests' that 'direct' you ;^) But, yes, I don't need to be lead by the nose everywhere. Hints and clues and mysteries to unfold are better than "Go there. Do that".
Also, I don't mind 'mundane tasks" *if* they make sense. Let's face it, a fantasy NPC community would treat adventurers like 'gig economy' workers. If a leather worker wants wolf pelts, why would he go out there himself when there are adventurers around? So, yes, the search for resources required by NPC tasks is a fine driver for me to go exploring.
Also, though, exploration for it's own sake when things look interesting 'over there'. Will definitely appreciate VR previously stated aim of "if you can see it you can go there" in this regard.
Discovery, which is a nuance of exploration, I suppose, but by that I mean trying to uncover things others might have missed. Not just looking 'over there' but looking close at where I am. I guess this will be a good criver if VR make things mysterious and less-then-obvious, which would be great.
Mapping is something I'm going to get into. I've enjoyed it in previous games, just as a personal passtime. I think I will do it again in Pantheon - make some accurate maps myself - and then produce *non* accurate, olde worlde maps that look like something a high fantasy theme cartographer/adventurer would make. Sorely tempted to make a non-spoiler help Wiki that adventurers who want to adventure (rather than gamers who want to beat a game) would enjoy. I think that effort would take me all over the place!
Also, can't wait to see where perception and Keeping lead me!...
For me, it is all about searching for places that evoke certain feelings. I enjoy traveling alone in game, so I guess it should come as no surprise that zones that are way off the beaten path, where there are few if any players, tend to be the types of zones that I find the most enjoyable. But, there is also an aesthetic element to it. The visuals and sound associated with the zone have to be just right, otherwise it just doesn't happen.
I really don't like hooks in general, because they tend to reveal things about a zone before I have had a chance to go there and explore it first. I enjoy the mystery of not knowing anything about what might be just right around the next bend or over the next hill, etc.
Lastly, there needs to be something to do there and one of the things I have enjoyed doing in the past in these far out the of way places, is hunting for rare zone wide drops; much like the spells scrolls and gems that drop in Skyfire. The drops don't need to be some sort of high level thing though, but they do need to be rare and in demand.
I will try to see all areas just for the sake of seeing them. This answer, while accurate, helps you not at all.
Encouragements that add to the motivation:
1. Knowing that different areas have different crafting recipes, house decorations, cosmetics and the like so that if I do not visit I will never know that something is available. These may or may not be gated behind local reputation.
2. A reward for seeing every zone and perhaps doing something in each zone. No, not enough xp to gain 10 levels but maybe a title like "World Explorer".
3. Breadcrumb trails leading me there. You do not need to have an overarching story line to have a NPC in the major city of an area offer you a silver piece to deliver something to a few local towns. Failing this, a NPC in that town may mention something interesting out in those towns even if he or she does not offer any quests.
I usually go to a zone for the first time either because a friend invited me there, because it's the next natural area of progression in a game, because I think it has some sort of valuable loot/nodes, or because it has some sort of personal achievement quality fight. Being good for just experience never really worked for me.
I should also mention that I do tend to stop and look at cool scenery along the way, which makes the journey more enticing too. I even like seeing big, scary unkillable monsters, like the giants in EQ or the dragons in Dark Souls.
Reading chat from other players who are in other areas or are doing interesting sounding things in other places. Trade hubs I haven't seen, bosses and dungeons I haven't seen, places to farm I haven't been to, etc.
Finding different ways that the world connects together would be cool. Instead of each zone linking to each adjacent zone in an obvious way, maybe they can connect in surprising ways, like finding a cave that leads to the basement of a building back in town.
Outleveling an area, player push due to overpopulation, travel dictates I go through a specific zone, or mob characteristics (difficult for xp/reward, sparsely populated, etc) would all "force" me to find a new area. I do enjoy going to new areas and exploring for exploration's sake. I also go for quests, mob diversity, loot, crafting material, new environments, or to be social with a specific group of people.
