Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Would You Rather - Race to end game...or

    • 9115 posts
    April 15, 2021 3:30 AM PDT

    Would You Rather - Race to end game to raid and compete in high-end content or slow down, take your time and enjoy everything the game has to offer when Pantheon releases? Please explain why. #MMORPG#CommunityMatters

    • 77 posts
    April 15, 2021 3:37 AM PDT

    It really depends on the game, if leveling is fun and there is plenty to do then taking your time is fine, but if leveling blows and is just the same boring grinding in the same places day after day then I would rather rush.

    • 2756 posts
    April 15, 2021 4:11 AM PDT

    Lol. Assuming levelling is fun (which if we don't, we may as well give up now) then I 1,000,000% want to take my time and enjoy everything I can.

    I really urge VR to pick as slow a pace as they can and encourage as much horizontal progression as they can and then make it a touch slower and more sideways to err on the side of caution - they can always tweak it upwards later if they really have to, but tweaking it down would meet a lot of resistance (as it always does, even if healthy, unfortunately).  Not sure if combat time is long (tactical) enough?  Not sure if levelling is long (meaningful) enough?  If you're not sure, please double it and go from there!

    I think the pace of the game is fundamental and vital to everything VR (and most backers?) want.  Challenge: Time to make tactical choices as well as timely reactions. Community: Time to socialise, strategise, etc.  Exploration: Literally time to stop and smell the roses. Find the perception pings and wonder what they mean...

    If the game is slow, then - even for people used to pushing for progress, progress, progress - all these good things wil feel like something they can 'afford' to indulge in.  They won't feel they are constantly missing out by not levelling at 100% efficiency for 100% of the time if they know the next level will take them a week; they should feel they can afford a few hours to do 'other things'.

    And for those, like me, who are *tempted* to rush by the enjoyment of progression, but know they get more out of it if they take their time, it will be easy to enjoy a satisfying amount of relaxing 'down time'.

    If people find themselves thinking "OMG this (whatever it is) is so slow!" maybe they will stop obsessing about 'that' and just enjoy the game they are playing?  Mindful gaming! hehe

    It makes me laugh when some worry about the 'combat loop progression impact' of things like being a Keeper.  Perception and Keeping is finally putting a meaningful (and hopefully enjoyable) structure around something fundamentally outside the 'main game' progression - Lore - and some folks are instantly assuming/worrying it must be something they *need* to do to advance faster.

    Even if it does have some minimal tangable impact, the fact that you are taking time out to appreciate the lore as well will surely mean you A) Don't overall 'advance' any faster and B) Are encouraged to slow down and appreciate something other than levelling?

    I don't know... Anyway... I'm greatly looking forward to feeling I can enjoy the lore of a game without what has historically been a very dry experience (reading books found in game).  It's a great example of VR indicating they place importance on immersion and atmosphere.  An indication that the end-game isn't the point.

    One question, though @Kilsin?  What do you mean "end game to raid"?  I thought we were getting raids throughout the levelling experience, eh?  If VR don't want the end game over-emphasised, they need to remove the traditional bias.


    This post was edited by disposalist at April 15, 2021 4:14 AM PDT
    • 643 posts
    April 15, 2021 4:47 AM PDT

    I deplore and despise the race-to-the-top.

     

    The problem, however, is if others race to the top, you get left behind and cant find groups or raids etc. so its like being on a scenic highway.  If everyone else is going 110MPH, you have to as well or you get destroyed.

    • 248 posts
    April 15, 2021 6:29 AM PDT

    I never race. I like to log on and see what friends are up to and join what I'm in the mood for. Questing, camping, exploring, helping someone with something they need etc.
    I like when leveling takes time, so I can go back and forth between many different locations and still get xp. I like to go exploring and see whats behind that wierd looking rock - inside that cave - down that hatch. I truly feel it is a wast of game world, when theres nothing to be found and everything is a one way street to endgame.
    Hoping Pantheon will bring many exciting things to do for what ever mood I'm in.

    -sorte.

    • 144 posts
    April 15, 2021 6:48 AM PDT

    My plan is always the same. 

    I will race to end game with my main raider class so I can have the ability to be involved with raids when I want. 

    And then I will make an alt (perhaps less desireable raid class) that I will take very, very slowly. Really get into the game, twink out as much as I can for every level and really soak in the game and everything it has to offer. 

    That way I can enjoy everything. Sure its nice to not rush, but it also sucks when your guild starts raiding and you WANT to go, but you simply can't because you are incapable because you induldged in everything the game has to offer. This way I get to do both!

    • 724 posts
    April 15, 2021 6:59 AM PDT

    I like to level up to TAKE PART in high end content, not to COMPETE in it.

    That said, "rushing" also depends a bit on the people you play with. If you have a good static group (or guild), leveling up quickly kind of happens naturally. If instead you have to rely on PUGs, it will probably be a lot slower anyway.

    What I don't want to do is artifically slowing down while leveling. That said, I do like to max out things like secondary skills (e.g. swimming) which you will not usually gain during combat. So every level (or every few levels) I will take a break to catch up on those skills, and then continue exping.

    • 3852 posts
    April 15, 2021 7:10 AM PDT

    In current MMOs I will play around learning the classes and races and eventually pick one to take more seriously. I will then speed-level it to maximum level. NOT to raid - to have a high level character to craft and make in-game money to support a growing family of toonlings. Who will level more slowly and stop and sniff the roses. Despite the accursed bees and their frequent stings.

    In Pantheon I will quite likely do the same thing, focusing on crafting and harvesting. I will not raid there either even if there are good raids. Unless I am in a guild that needs help.

    • 500 posts
    April 15, 2021 7:40 AM PDT

    I prefer to take my time and explore the world.  It would be great if VR did away with the whole end game mentality. Spread the raid bosses amongst multiple level ranges.  Having raid type bosses to engage with at many different levels adds more challenge, which equates to more fun imo.

    • 33 posts
    April 15, 2021 8:08 AM PDT

    I also prefer to take my time. I'm not a "completionist" but I do like to try to experince most of what an area has to offer. 

    • 392 posts
    April 15, 2021 8:22 AM PDT

    I just go with the flow man, Really though even when I get my main to max I'll usually go back and play some alts before I go hard into raiding.

    • 150 posts
    April 15, 2021 8:30 AM PDT

    It depends on the server's guild dynamics and if player-made agreements are in place. But generally, slow and steady is the game plan. Those who rush through content risk burnout. The high-end targets will still be there when all is said and done anyway. Even if it means waiting to experience the pinnacle of raid content until the first expansion is released (after all of the sooners leave old world content for a new promised land), I'll wait it out. Alternatively, what Hoiyay said. 


    This post was edited by Leevolen at April 15, 2021 8:38 AM PDT
    • 1921 posts
    April 15, 2021 9:01 AM PDT

    If leveling is challenging content, I'm happy to stay leveling for as long as it takes to obtain tangible daily progress for my character.  Same goes for raiding.
    I don't really care what the content is, as long as it's fun, challenging, and requires a group to consume, so I can contribute a role as part of that group.
    That's it, not really much more to it, from my perspective.

    In general, though, if there are levels, and max level offers benefits only obtainable by being max level, then some players will want to be max level.

    • 125 posts
    April 15, 2021 10:06 AM PDT

    Taking my time and having a multitude of toons

    • 2419 posts
    April 15, 2021 1:08 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Would You Rather - Race to end game to raid and compete in high-end content or slow down, take your time and enjoy everything the game has to offer when Pantheon releases? Please explain why. #MMORPG#CommunityMatters

    Race.  I hate everything except end game content. I like the game best when I have my complete spell set, my complete ability set.  Putzing around in the early levels with squat all for HP/mana and a few spells is boring.  Its not the journey, it's the destination!

    • 810 posts
    April 15, 2021 1:08 PM PDT
    It depends a lot on game mechanics. EQ had a big focus on the adventure, but max level became the clear focus eventually. I think pantheon will largely ignore that early aspect with popular mmo design tropes that all push max lvl.

    Common ilvl gear pushes you end game because it is all trash until max level where the leveling progress is paused. You can't progress in trash so why spend a dozen hours doing a quest for an item you throw away by the time you complete the quest?

    How powerful are levels? Do levels just turn you into a god for anything 20 levels below you? Will I just walk in and aoe down the low level dungeon?

    Will you be able to complete old low level quests that give masteries, lore, etc. Are they level appropriate only?

    Does gaining levels mean gaining wealth? Afford those teleports for quick travel everywhere to save time, buy a fast mount to move around the world. Clear perks of leveling.

    Are the best quests largely for max level? Epic weapons, class quests etc.
    • 888 posts
    April 15, 2021 1:21 PM PDT
    What I plan to do:
    Take my time but stay focused on getting my character to max level.

    What I will actually do:
    Take my time getting to mid-level, roll an alt, take my time getting to mid level, roll another alt, and repeat. Eventually getting to Max level as I jump around between my many characters.
    • 13 posts
    April 15, 2021 1:27 PM PDT

     

    Taking it slow is good, for me !

    If there can be a way to really expirence different kinds of content before max level then that - to me - would be the ideal. Not only Dungeons but low level raids would be great to have along side the level to max. Having avenues of exploration is always good of course! Finally Having different Raids and "world trigger" type activities throught leveling would be a good reason to use a prestige system to go through content again, or expirience content you did not get to the first time through. Allowing playability and a constent and healthy need for ower level characters to be relevent. 

    I have always wanted to see level being a secondary bi-product of character power.
    What I mean is that character level should be secondary to skills/ abilitys/ gear in terms of progression. This is probably a non-obtainable wish because, in the context of an MMO it makes little sense. However with Climates and atmospheres existing within the leveling expirence, I have hope that this will be close to that ideal.
    It might be more important to upgrade your gear and abilities within different 'level bracets' so that you can actually move up and progress to the next 'level bracket'. If this works then it will give a few horizonal progression platues that can push the need to explore and do other things to advance your level to the next 'bracket' of content which would be nice. 

    It would take many pieces of the same puzzle to pull this off, but I can not wait to see how this pans out for Pantheon in the end ! 

     

     


    This post was edited by JonWane at April 15, 2021 1:29 PM PDT
    • 256 posts
    April 15, 2021 1:42 PM PDT

    Depends on the game.

    Personally, I would rather a game be designed where I don't want to rush because there is compelling and challenging content to do at all levels and that content has a lasting impact on my character to the point I might feel at a disadvantage if I rushed past it.

    However, in most games, I end up rushing to max level because everything you do in the middle lacks meaning at the end game, and most grouping situations only happen at endgame.

    Personally, I hope that pantheon offers meaningful content and character progression in the middle that compels players to take it slow or they might miss something vital like an epic skill line, or a quest line associated with their class from a random NPC. 

    • 2138 posts
    April 15, 2021 4:08 PM PDT

    I hope there are enough quest milestones at a given level (NOT the "kill X" that so many have been wrongly taught is a "quest" for the past 15 years) where reaching or staying at a given level- like level 5- feels like an accomplishment. with plenty more great quests/story lines to pursue from having been hinted at along the way at that level that are worthy to be completed at that level.

    The tricky part is the game will have to prod the player to certain areas where more level appropriate story-like quests are available. Better yet if different classes/races have different story lines yet need to go to the same place as this can be a point of conversation in RL in group.  This is why I also like the idea of graduated quests where the thing earned along the way is good, and only gets improved if you do more quests related to it. Interspersed with normal drops , crafting and inter-player trading.

    Like, level 5's in thronefast having done some stuff and being prodded to take a trip to someplace else- that trip should be a big deal through way over-the-head areas maybe. Once arrived, there will be just as much challenge with different cultures, factions and questing to spend some time in level approproate areas with higher end stuff always looming. 

    In answer to the question I wont be racing to the end, per se, but if there are large, global, benefits from things like: grouping with all the races of terminus, all the classes of terminus, all the primals of terminus "where possible", setting foot on all the continents, I will be sensitive to those. Which is why I would like to see tiers in things one can do: alone, where a group is needed and where a group is necessary or more than a group, where you may have to get a PUG if none of your current friends list are on, maybe do some crafting or lore research, while inaware of those larger global things in the background.

    but TBH if I cannot be a part of the groupm that hits the top end, I would still be pleased in knowing there are those that have, as that also gives hope that, that level is attainable.   

    • 413 posts
    April 15, 2021 6:56 PM PDT

    I think a "horizontally leveled up" character at level 50+ should be stronger and more robust than the "linear leveled up" character at level 50+.  it's fair because the player who took the must advantage of horizontal leveling should be rewarded. 

     Content is expensive, VR should pack as much as they can into the world.  Offer enough content through level 50, that no two characters of the same class would be exactly alike.  Each journey is unique and offers high quality replay value for your Alts.


    This post was edited by Zevlin at April 15, 2021 6:58 PM PDT
    • 690 posts
    April 15, 2021 9:28 PM PDT

    I want to slow down, so I don't need to worry about whether or not what I'm doing is efficient.  For example, I really like building up a lot of money early even if it is more efficient to build it up after hitting level cap.

    • 37 posts
    April 16, 2021 5:01 AM PDT

    Played EQ for many years and rarely raided because of time commitments and rarely quested.  The fun was in the fighting and exploring.  Fighting down to the Royals in Chardok or down to the mushrooms in Seb was good enough for me.  I had as much fun at low levels in Blackburrow as I did a bit higher in City of Mist.  If the zones are plentiful and interesting I need never raid.  Eventually, I'll get to max level and may raid some and then play an alt.

    • 94 posts
    April 16, 2021 6:41 AM PDT

    This will probably come down to a couple of factors for me, my available time and how focused the people I'm playing with are on reaching end game. I'll be looking for a more casual pace, but the allure of getting to end game to experience that content will be there. I'm really hoping there's enough horizontal content to keep my main interested while leveling and at the very least plan on rolling alts to go back and experience paths not taken. I also plan on crafting and exploring the keeper path. It will be a balance between my time and goals for sure.

    • 65 posts
    April 16, 2021 6:45 AM PDT

    I would prefer to push towards max level relatively fast and then to experience different areas of content either through the progeny system or through alternate characters. Trying to do every level 40 quest or dungeon for example on my first character feels like it takes away some incentive of the progeny system or alts for me personally, as having uncompleted content is a motivating factor in re-leveling.