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Got Questions on Balance & Progression?

    • 136 posts
    April 1, 2021 7:23 AM PDT
    • We'll be taking some balance and combat progression with Saicred on tonights stream Got questions? Post here!


    • 52 posts
    April 1, 2021 7:42 AM PDT

    ... you sould really have posted this yesterday :'D I'm really looking forward to the stream though, keep up the good work in there

    • 1641 posts
    April 1, 2021 10:21 AM PDT

    Q: Is it currently a public design goal that all classes will be multi-role in combat?
    Context: Currently, the Rogue performs two roles: DPS and CC. Is this intended and will all other classes be similarly multi-role?

    Q: Is it currently a public design goal that any class will be able to perform three combat roles?

    Q: Will out of combat roles be considered in the context of combat role balancing?
    Context: Will the group teleportation ability of Druids and Wizards be considered in the skills, abilities, and roles those classes will play in combat?  As in, will they receive less, fewer, or in some other way balanced in their combat spells, skills, and abilities specifically because they can teleport groups out of combat?

    Q: Will all classes in Pantheon be able to acquire any, some, or all of the available non-combat abilities, skills, spells, or roles?
    Context: Will any non-Rogue be able to detect & disarm traps, pick locks, or similar?

    Q: What's the design philosophy around half the classes generating or recovering combat resources while out of combat, and half generating combat resources only while in combat?
    Context: Apparently Mana & Endurance only rapidly recover out of combat. Class specific combat resources (like reckoning points) only generate while in combat. This would appear to guarantee fundamental negative gameplay friction between these two categories of classes, but if not, how so?

    Q: Will any combat situation or combat teamwork create unique, dynamic, and additional abilities for everyone in the group?
    Context: Via additional buttons to press, in addition to the standard 8+6 LAS UI?

    Q: Is it still a public design goal for the launch of Pantheon that each class will be limited to 8 active abilities on the LAS UI hotbar?

    Q: What is the design philosophy surrounding giving only limited classes the ability to arbitrarily exit combat, during which they can adjust their LAS loadout, while excluding all classes from this apparent LAS bypass?
    Context: If this isn't a LAS bypass, or won't be possible, please enumerate the means by which this is intended to be accomplished.  Similarly, if all classes will be granted the ability to arbitrarily exit combat, that would be great to have confirmed.

    • 41 posts
    April 1, 2021 12:45 PM PDT


    At what point in a character's existence are you looking to balance classes? There seem to be a ton of variables to balance and depending on when you try and balance two classes it could vary greatly. If  class balance is only focused on endgame are things like zone, environment, encounter, character spells/skills, gear, player skill level all being considered?

    Does balance mean that all characters should perform equally well in one specific encounter/zone or will some perform better in one situation versus another and then in another zone/encounter the opposite would hold true?



    Are lockouts still under consideration for the game and will they be in lower level dungeons/raids as well as endgame? If they are, is the goal similar to that of player push that will force people to explore new areas? Also if they are being considered, what are your thoughts on incorporating the environment system into lockouts instead of just a simple timer?

    Is there a timeframe you expect players to hit level cap since you said you've targeted a 2-3 hour timeframe for players to play? This assumes the player is efficiently grouping, focusing on experience instead of loot, and focuses their 2-3 hour sessions on level progression.

    • 58 posts
    April 1, 2021 1:00 PM PDT
    When designing and balancing content within Pantheon do you consider the Bards and Necromancers spells and abilities?

    Do you consider how those classes will effect the content you’ve created so far?
    • 2861 posts
    April 1, 2021 1:33 PM PDT

    vjek said:

    Q: Is it currently a public design goal that all classes will be multi-role in combat?
    Context: Currently, the Rogue performs two roles: DPS and CC. Is this intended and will all other classes be similarly multi-role?

    And please take this time to clarify what you envision for the Support role and how CC is only a part of that, so a rogue performing CC isn't actually fulfilling an entire second role. 

    Or if I am dead wrong please say so. 


    Question: How will melee damage progression work? Will it be similar to EQ in that the damage per hit won't dramatically increase from 1-50, but rather things like dual wield & double attack are introduced for power gains, or will it basically scale very similarly to caster damage and each individual melee hit will be dramatically higher between 1-50 (for example: 5 damage/hit at level 1 and 150+ a hit at 50)?

    This post was edited by Iksar at April 1, 2021 4:52 PM PDT
    • 47 posts
    April 1, 2021 2:00 PM PDT

    Sorry if this is poorly worded:

    How do developers plan to handle class balance in the future (i.e. expansions). A lot of older MMOs have changed class abilities to the point that most classes can solo or otherwise use abilities that aren't necessarily consistent with their original design. As a follow up, how do developers plan to keep stats and combat numbers from growing too large as the game evolves? For context, Final Fantasy 14 developers are doing a "stat squish" to lower the stats on gear and combat numbers since they've become so high.

    • 14 posts
    April 1, 2021 2:03 PM PDT

    Will enchanters have other ways to increase group dps besides charming and mana regen?

    • 37 posts
    April 1, 2021 2:36 PM PDT

    How will hardcore league and lootboxes effect class balance?

    • 405 posts
    April 1, 2021 2:45 PM PDT

    Q: Will there be a gradual progression in the early levels for newer players who aren't used to the combat style of games like Pantheon? and how will you achieve this?

    Q: Is it true that Saicred hums the tune for Green Acres while he works,and does he wear overalls during company meetings while chewing on a hayseed?


    Thank you. :)




    • 710 posts
    April 1, 2021 2:49 PM PDT

    What escape mechanisms, if any, are intended for when you realize you're in over your head or if you are walking through the tall grass and happen upon vicious snake that you couldn't see?

    • 14 posts
    April 1, 2021 3:02 PM PDT

    I think the answer is respawn....

    • 1327 posts
    April 1, 2021 3:08 PM PDT

    1) How much will Player (and monster) HP increase from level 10 to level 50 when properly geared? x2, x4, x10, x100?

        All numbers usually then scale off the HP scaling.

    2) How long are group fights intended to take vs same level monsters? M_HP/(Total group DPS)? Will that time increase, decrease or stay the same as you increase in levels?

    3) How will tradeable high level equipment on low level characters be handled so that the gear does not trivialize content?

    This post was edited by Trasak at April 1, 2021 3:28 PM PDT
    • 531 posts
    April 1, 2021 3:16 PM PDT

    Similar to Vjek's line of questioning, I'm still a little fuzzy on the quaternity, which in concept is great.  It's supposed to be Tank, Heal, DPS, and Control, correct?  What do you classify as Control?  To me that's Charms, Mez, Stun, Root, Confuse, Blind, Fear, etc...  Basically controlling the mobs ability to engage freely on the battlefield.  Seeing some folks thinking "Support" is the fourth aspect of quaternity, and that's generally within the realm of healers and buffs, though I get the EQ1 Enchanter had haste and clarity.  Just need more clarity on all of this as to where we are now as opposed to early in development when Brad was adament it was Control.

    • 1641 posts
    April 1, 2021 3:53 PM PDT

    Trasak, you inspired me to add a few more..

    Q: What is the current public design goal regarding balancing (TTK) time-to-kill for an at level single-group mob?
    Context:  A full group of balanced (by role) level 30 adventurers are killing a level 30 group-required monster in a dungeon.  They have at least one class of each primary Role. (tank, healer, dps, whatever)  With average gear, average skill, average latency, what's the current TTK range? (30sec,60sec,90sec? more? less?)

    Recovery Time
    Q: What is the expected out-of-combat recovery time after the above fight?
    Context: Without utilizing short-term consumables such as potions, but having food/drink/buffs as normal for the group.

    Q: Will all combat resource generation, when being generated out-of-combat (resting) continue to be percentage based through to launch?
    Context: Currently Mana recovers by a percentage per tick while resting out of combat.  Will it be changed to a fixed value per tick, or is it a launch day goal to remain a percentage?

    • 1878 posts
    April 1, 2021 3:53 PM PDT

    As far as progression, are mid-level raids still planned? Can you talk about them?

    • 154 posts
    April 1, 2021 4:06 PM PDT
    How do you plan to balance abilities that are extremely situational and will not be utilized often....such as the rogue's "death from above."
    • 154 posts
    April 1, 2021 4:09 PM PDT
    How often will we see abilities scale off a % rather than a base number?

    Specifically, I have seen issues where healing by a percentage, vs healing by a base #, could end up cheesing the combat and being stronger than was originally planned. Generally gets worse the further down the road expansions go.
    • 46 posts
    April 1, 2021 4:45 PM PDT

    1.  In what ways do you envision, say, a level 20 character progressing in the game between level 20 and 30? 

    2.  How are you creating tension between the age-old MMO design favoring vertical progression, in favor of horizontal progression?

    3.  We've already seen Wizard & Druid teleport questions.  There are other methods of fast transport in the game.  This includes runspeed modifiers, and, potentially abilities like the Summoner's Escape Portal.  Can you discuss some of those alternatives we may not have heard much about?  The Escape Portal is interesting - is it in-zone only, is it multi-zone, duration?  Does it mean Summoners can potentially be a transportation alternative to Druids & Wizards?

    4.  With Druids & Wizards in mind again, the Q&A of Druid/Wizard ports on the site mentions that "At higher levels, Druids/Wizards will be able to teleport themselves to the primary Gateway or Wandering Stone in order to access the network more quickly.  In addition, they'll eventually be able to bring their group members with them through the Gateway/Wandering Stone network."  Interesting omission that it never states they will be able to bring their group with them to a primary Gateway/Wandering Stone when not already at one.  Will Druids/Wizards be able to cast a group teleport to a Gateway/Wandering Stone from a dungeon - or perhaps is this where Escape Portal from a Summoner might come in handy?

    5.  Herbalism and Alchemy are very interesting things in Ranger's and Rogue's ability list.  Are they actual skills, do they utilize any tradeskills, are they just abilities, do they use reagents, etc?  Will Rangers or Rogues have any special benefit from using regular potions, bandages, balms, salves, etc?  

    6.  I believe a long time ago, it was mentioned that there will be at least three raids in for launch.  Is this still on track?  We've seen a single raid zone featured so far - can you discuss anything new about these raids or how Pantheon handles raids?  Have any mechanics regarding monopolization concerns been firmed up design-wise yet that can be shared?  Will these raids be tested - if so - how will you determine who tests them?  

    7.  How do you envision testing of new content or patch changes to work after Launch?  Ie will we have a test server or such?  

    8.  Races - Discussion of races was omitted, excepting perhaps related to animations, from the recent Producer's Letter.  How are they coming along, and will players in Alpha1 be seeing all races, racials, etc? 

    9.  How are racials being balanced?  Will 10 points of dagger/hammer be useful vs 5% attack vs 2% haste?  How about distribution of resist checks, npc abilities (ie silence, stun, charm, mez), and npc dispositions?  Will some of these racial resists or bonuses against dispositions be more useful?    Ie, in EQ, Magic Resist was by far the most useful resist,  In DnD5e, certain resists are very rare for npcs to have special bonuses against and certain resists are much more commonly used by npcs to attack players.  In MMO's, it's traditionally a really poor choice for players to have control taken away by an npc & removing all response options - ie Charm & Mez - so they are used less commonly against players than other mechanics.  Is distribution and usefulness of these sort things something you are going to be tracking & distributing to some metric internally?

    10.  You and your friends hit level 50 - FINALLY!  When you guys login next, you talk amongst yourselves about what to do next.  What are some options players might have?  How would that conversation go between YOU guys right now?

    11.  How much will your alignment with specific factions play into your gameplay?  Will certain faction alignments result in continual in-game impacts?  Ie, in EQ in Velious, going Dragon, Giant, Dwarf, some combination of the 2, or against all 3, often changed quite a bit about how you played.  Can you join the Keeper/Keepers faction?  

    12.  Druids can "Harness Trait" and then "Imbue".  Is this limited, or once you "harness" a brown bear - will you always be able to imbue a "brown bear's strength" or such?  Will harnessing be risky in some way, ie can you try to harness at a lower level or skill than intended?  Will it be a thing to seek out more powerful or npcs with unique harness traits?  If so, will you have to pick between what unique traits you have harnessed?  Can you harness from raid areas or raid mobs?

    13.  Anything you wish you would have been asked or are excited to talk about?

    This post was edited by First at April 1, 2021 5:07 PM PDT
    • 1163 posts
    April 1, 2021 5:03 PM PDT

    Hoiyay said: How often will we see abilities scale off a % rather than a base number? Specifically, I have seen issues where healing by a percentage, vs healing by a base #, could end up cheesing the combat and being stronger than was originally planned. Generally gets worse the further down the road expansions go.

    I was going to ask basically the same thing, so I will have to ask something else. I hope your question is selected because it's a huge deal.

    Q: Can you talk about the balance between limited action set and multiple spell bars - specifically relating to not being able to swap abilities and how some players feel that leads to needing more bars. - Wouldn't allowing the swapping of abilities during combat reduce the need for more bars?

    This post was edited by bigdogchris at April 1, 2021 5:06 PM PDT
    • 203 posts
    April 1, 2021 5:35 PM PDT


    If they all bring equal group healing ability, but:

    A Druid brings teleportation and DPS

    A Shaman brings debuffs, buffs, utility and DPS


    What special thing does a Cleric bring? Crazy DPS and utility vs undead? Or something else that would mean a group doesn't always pick a Druid or Shaman instead?