I do not know if they was ever talked about so I will make the suggestion here. Instead of having already in game maps all setup for us we have to make our own map. To do so we would need a few basic tools like pen, ink, paper, compass, rulers and a few other tools that are used in geography that I dont know the names of. Of course you can always make a basic style map with just pen, ink, paper and a compass but the more tools you have the more detailed one can make it, also as your skill goes up you might not need as many tools to make a decent detailed map. You would have to mark any point of interest on your own. You can share maps with others as well, but doing so can cause errors on maps that you may not notice until you actually come to these locations on your own.
There have been long discussions on the subject of maps. You can browse some of the threads on the subject by typing 'maps' into the search box on the main forum index.
Cartography as a Craft has been mentioned many times, but given the recent Crafting reveals since Nephele - our Crafting Dev - was hired, I'd say that's not very likely. The issue of not having gps - a 'you are here' icon on your ingame map - is a very popular constraint among those who advocate for ingame maps.
VR's position - last I heard - is that they don't plan to give us much more than the compass. (I might have missed something more recently, if so someone will soon correct my mistake).
It's a subject where people have some strong opinions, and as with everything else, it could change before launch.
I am all for "no gps" - I think that makes sense, and not having a gps marker adds immersion to the world.
That being said, there is no reason, from a real life or in game perspective, not to actually have maps.
There is a compass. There are "pens and paper". There are races from other worlds. Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that no one figured out how to make a map? Come on...
As with many of the topics I see discussed, I think it comes down to implementation. I think a cartography skill would be awesome. Maps could become more detailed based on the cartography skill. They could be shared and sold, good cartographers could develop meaning reputations.
That being said, no matter what, people will "map out" zones using third party tools - I'm already planning on doing it. Once people do, and they become easily accessible online, they will be commonly referenced. In other words, people WILL have maps - demand will create supply. Why not use an in-game system to have it mesh more organically?
So, getting off my soap box - yes, what the OP said. I approve.
Just like voice chat, VR has decided to not give us maps. If a player wants maps they can use outside sources.
This has been discussed repeatedly. I encourage newer members to sift through old forum threads for information.
Minds can be changed if there is a way to put it in game without getting away from their vision of the game. I think an in game skill of geography would not hurt their vision at all, especially if they do not and should not attatch a gps tracker with it. Content would not be marked automatically ever. The game might help you in drawing a hill, river or mountain, BUT all points of interest would have to be marked down by the player making the map. This way maps can have errors and bad maps can lead people to places they may not have intended to go to. This would actually add to immersion in my opinion. All points of interest would have offical in game names but it would be up to the map makers to find out these names and how to identify them for more accuracy to your map.
Mujinn said:Minds can be changed if there is a way to put it in game without getting away from their vision of the game. I think an in game skill of geography would not hurt their vision at all, especially if they do not and should not attatch a gps tracker with it. Content would not be marked automatically ever. The game might help you in drawing a hill, river or mountain, BUT all points of interest would have to be marked down by the player making the map. This way maps can have errors and bad maps can lead people to places they may not have intended to go to. This would actually add to immersion in my opinion. All points of interest would have offical in game names but it would be up to the map makers to find out these names and how to identify them for more accuracy to your map.
It's been multiple years now since we were told by kilsin that we are past the stage of adding anything to the game. It's implementation and tweaks and balances at this point. We are past the point that a map system would be added...but that horse has been beaten to death anyway.
All we are doing when we discuss new ideas on the forum is killing time. Saying "Minds can be changed" shows a misunderstanding of where we are in development.
I belong to the minority which would like to have a GPS "you are here" arrow or dot. Some people like me just have a very bad sense of direction IRL and ingame. I remember early EQ where I got lost all the time and took wrong directions, running into walls, mobs and certainly death.
We don't need a real mini-map as in WoW, I can agree with that, but at least a GPS and player made maps to help us positioning.
Dungeons will be tough enough as we see it in the streams, a GPS combined with player made maps won't trivialize the content. I know many folks will disagree with me but I can guarantee you it is still difficult to find its way with a map (thinking of EQ) because of the z axis and different floors in a dungeon.
We will see how things work once a full continent is released in Alpha though and how difficult it will be to navigate. I am aware of what Philo said about being past the stage where important features or tools can still be added, perhaps the issue will be raised again after the game launches, who knows. After all, EQ itself implemented his map system only with the LoY (Ykesha) expansion.
philo said:
It's been multiple years now since we were told by kilsin that we are past the stage of adding anything to the game. It's implementation and tweaks and balances at this point. We are past the point that a map system would be added...but that horse has been beaten to death anyway.
All we are doing when we discuss new ideas on the forum is killing time. Saying "Minds can be changed" shows a misunderstanding of where we are in development.
This game is still in Pre-Alpha, and I have been around the block more than once in playing games that were in development. It has a very long road yet to release and stuff can still be added or taken away. I have help test out many games and saw games take out features I thought were good but some group saw as OP so they took it out. I have watched them put in systems that were only talked about in the testing area of the forums brought up by the testers. Hell I once watched a MMO completely overhaul the combat system for a certain class and turn them into an auto attack class 2 weeks before release.
To say that anything is beyond a certain point is kinda silly. Sometimes people come up with great idea late in development, or certain features find a new voice in convincing the developers to finally impliment a system they were completely against. However, If maps can not be part of it so be it, I still think this skill is a lost opportunity to add in a little more immersion. I dont want to beat a horse living or already dead so I will just let it go. I came in late to discussion and wanted to add in my 2 cents. This is still a great game with lots of potentail and I look forward to helping test it out once in Alpha.
Maps have been discussed to death and VR has decided to not go in that direction. But its more than that.
I'm not sure if you realize how far behind they are in their development plan? There is a very real possibility this doesnt make it to release. Many non essential systems have been scrapped or postponed. They really need to focus on what is essential. I'm concerned they arent doing that enough,...but then this is not about crafting anymore and getting very off topic. Im willing to discuss this further in pm if you want more details.
Sort of a massive waste of resources to implement.
Also really tickled by the idea that maps can exist in-world so each player should at least have a basic map because that is realistic... Does anyone realize how incredibly rare maps (especially accurate ones) were for the vast majority of human history?
Iksar said:Sort of a massive waste of resources to implement.
Also really tickled by the idea that maps can exist in-world so each player should at least have a basic map because that is realistic... Does anyone realize how incredibly rare maps (especially accurate ones) were for the vast majority of human history?
Cartography has been an occupation as long as sailing. Accuracy has improved with technology, but the ability of an artist to perceive landscapes and draw them is as old as drawing itself. Maps don't need to be to scale to identify if you are standing by a lake, a stream you can follow west will lead you to town ABC, there is a mountain to your north, a system of caves to your west and city XYZ south-east of you... BAM! You have a map.
I "personally" think it would be an amazing skill in the game... having more accurate maps the higher your skill became. It could've been coupled with some kind of scroll making skills to allow players to cast buffs or something, but as Philo said:
philo said:All we are doing when we discuss new ideas on the forum is killing time. Saying "Minds can be changed" shows a misunderstanding of where we are in development.
Mujinn said:Perhaps it is something that can be added post launch or some modder can make for us, so long as the game allows for such a mod.
No mod needed, open a player made map in a web page on your PC or phone and look at it. Hey look, cartography exists with no dev effort!