Wellspring said:Watching this reminded me how much I hope to find groups that communicate using in-game chat only.
I can understand voice chat for streaming/entertainment purposes, but when I'm actually playing, I don't want to feel like I have to use discord to play well.
100% agree.
If I have to listen to people chatter or repeatedly explain game mechanics in order to be successful I'm going to get frustrated with people very quickly. I was annoyed listening to them in the stream... but it looks like if you don't, you will spend more time dying than advancing :(
Completely breaks immersion for me, and turns into a chore instead of a Role Playing Game.
I enjoyed the stream quite a bit , especially since I had not seen the Grave Mother fight previously. I did think that overall mob difficulty in general and boss difficulty in particular needs to be more difficult. The adds on the Queen died super fast and the Queen died fairly quickly as well. The Grave Mother also died too quickly. That said, the stream was awesome and a good showcase for us all to enjoy. Thanks VR!!!
Darch said:Wellspring said:Watching this reminded me how much I hope to find groups that communicate using in-game chat only.
I can understand voice chat for streaming/entertainment purposes, but when I'm actually playing, I don't want to feel like I have to use discord to play well.
100% agree.
If I have to listen to people chatter or repeatedly explain game mechanics in order to be successful I'm going to get frustrated with people very quickly. I was annoyed listening to them in the stream... but it looks like if you don't, you will spend more time dying than advancing :(
Completely breaks immersion for me, and turns into a chore instead of a Role Playing Game.
What tends to happen is that once you've done it a coupla times, you tend to get used to the pulling and the comments of the puller will be much less than what you heard here.
I too was super worried about it but got used to it quickly on P99 and EQR. Once you get in the mode, you're in the mode and get stuff done.
It's pretty much the same without discord when someone will tell you what to expect the first time and people asking questions for 20 minutes, often going over the same thing multiple times.
It certainly gets you out of jams faster if someone tells you not to attack mob x cause it's messed or whatever.
It has advantages and disadvantages and you are totally and utterly entitled to play the way you want it and you should :) Same way as some people will play 1st person or 3rd person. You choose...
The cool thing is..... you have a choice!! :)
(I agree with you that there was a lot of banter. Perhaps it was done on purpose because this was a stream/video?)
Very good stream and well done VR, I really enjoyed seeing the rogue CC like he did. it really showed that you dont need a chanter for CC yes it cost DPS but in a pinch its nice to have a versatile class. now how well he did it impressed me to so good job to minus as well. really looking forward to release!
The rogue abilities that "throw items at the feet" of enemies seem to be really OP. They should have some type of reagent component so that they have to be thoughtfully used as a backup plan for CC, not as a primary method.
bigdogchris said:The rogue abilities that "throw items at the feet" of enemies seem to be really OP. They should have some type of reagent component so that they have to be thoughtfully used as a backup plan for CC, not as a primary method.
Flash Bomb was originally listed as one of a Rogue's 'Alchemical Abilities', which depended on finding resources in the environment and then combining them. I wonder if the limits on it just haven't been dialed in yet this early in development. I hope so, as I agree with you that unlimited use of it seems pretty OP.
bryanleo9 said: Wow the rogue is overpowered. Smoking the wizard in damage looking at the damage logs plus they cc. I expect rogues to be the most popular class if things dont get changed. Wizards expect to lfg all day like in EQ 1
After the stream, Joppa already said Rogues are going to get nerfed to some degree. We wanted to see how far we could push their CC capabilities and I think we succeeded in that haha :P
Durp said:(I agree with you that there was a lot of banter. Perhaps it was done on purpose because this was a stream/video?)
exactly right. We probably should have mentioned it at the beginning, but we intentionally wanted to explain (or even over-explain) the intracacies of everything that was going on to make it easier for the viewers to understand what was going on. Not everyone is familiar with this style of combat and we've noticed in past streams that a big part of why some people think Pantheon's combat is boring is probably because while it doesn't necessarily LOOK like you have to do a lot, there really are a ton of decisions you have to make. And that's a big part of what makes it fun. So we wanted to try to highlight that. But in a regular session, I don't really expect the group to have to communicate with each to quite that degree.
Bazgrim said:Gottbeard said:I can't find a link to Therek's footage. Anyone have?
It's not up yet. Kilsin will make a post with all the links once they're all up.
Sorry for the delay on my footage everyone! I had hoped to have it up today, but it looks like it will be tomorrow (Tuesday March 9th) . I wanted to break the footage into 2 separate videos -
1. A Wizard specific overview with a focus on the spells, with editing to showcase them, and some commentary. This leads into the group play portion of the stream so you can go straight from seeing the spell details into seeing them in action. For those only really interested in the Wizard info.
2. The largely unedited footage of me wandering around the fortress before we went into the caves. For those that want to hear me ooh and awww at every bit of lore, character model, and be generally immersed in the experience.
Cheers!
Looking forward to your viewpoint Therek, a lot of us casters want to see the wizard gameplay/spells. Wish you guys were going up against some lvl 20-23 mobs as well. All in due time, excellent gameplay VR.
I can't believe I'm spending my evening watching someone else play a game and enjoying it as much as I am. Who's fault was that wipe?? Nathan
This post was edited by Cristio at March 8, 2021 5:06 PM PST
Bazgrim said:Durp said:(I agree with you that there was a lot of banter. Perhaps it was done on purpose because this was a stream/video?)
exactly right. We probably should have mentioned it at the beginning, but we intentionally wanted to explain (or even over-explain) the intracacies of everything that was going on to make it easier for the viewers to understand what was going on. Not everyone is familiar with this style of combat and we've noticed in past streams that a big part of why some people think Pantheon's combat is boring is probably because while it doesn't necessarily LOOK like you have to do a lot, there really are a ton of decisions you have to make. And that's a big part of what makes it fun. So we wanted to try to highlight that. But in a regular session, I don't really expect the group to have to communicate with each to quite that degree.
Without the use of discord as commucation it is hard for me to see how a group can manage as well and have as much fun playing Pantheon.
I hope it can be done with out discord. Im not really a fan of having to use discord all the time.
Bazgrim what do you think ? Can the same effect happen with out discord?
Ohh I really did enjoy the game play.
Darch said:Wellspring said:Watching this reminded me how much I hope to find groups that communicate using in-game chat only.
I can understand voice chat for streaming/entertainment purposes, but when I'm actually playing, I don't want to feel like I have to use discord to play well.
100% agree.
If I have to listen to people chatter or repeatedly explain game mechanics in order to be successful I'm going to get frustrated with people very quickly. I was annoyed listening to them in the stream... but it looks like if you don't, you will spend more time dying than advancing :(
Completely breaks immersion for me, and turns into a chore instead of a Role Playing Game.
You won't need voice chat. The rogue was over complicating it. HE could have just as easily typed in move up to me. And they could have established before hand not to move past the wrong. EQ 101 stuff. Plus he was always rushing them talking about respawn but I didn't think the respawn were that fast. They had two healers, they should have had the rogue doing DPS and power healed through fights if they pulled one to many.
bryanleo9 said: The rogue has 3 + mobs mezzed at the same. How is the enchanter going to top that?
The enchanter will have buffs and debuffs and be able to do other stuff like some dmg while keeping mobs mezzed. The rogue couldn't do any DPS while he was doing CC. That's why it was taking mobs forever to die.
BladeDancer said:Bazgrim said:Durp said:(I agree with you that there was a lot of banter. Perhaps it was done on purpose because this was a stream/video?)
exactly right. We probably should have mentioned it at the beginning, but we intentionally wanted to explain (or even over-explain) the intracacies of everything that was going on to make it easier for the viewers to understand what was going on. Not everyone is familiar with this style of combat and we've noticed in past streams that a big part of why some people think Pantheon's combat is boring is probably because while it doesn't necessarily LOOK like you have to do a lot, there really are a ton of decisions you have to make. And that's a big part of what makes it fun. So we wanted to try to highlight that. But in a regular session, I don't really expect the group to have to communicate with each to quite that degree.
Without the use of discord as commucation it is hard for me to see how a group can manage as well and have as much fun playing Pantheon.
I hope it can be done with out discord. Im not really a fan of having to use discord all the time.
Bazgrim what do you think ? Can the same effect happen with out discord?
Ohh I really did enjoy the game play.
I don't doubt that people will find a way. If we weren't on voice, we could have used text macros - you can even set it so that every time you use a certain ability, it sends an appropriate custom text macro along with it. Like I said, for regular group content, we were over explaining things for the audience. That won't always be necessary. Maybe it would have been a little more difficult without voice? But I bet we still would have gotten the job done. Raids might be a different story.
Thirteenmoons raised a critical issue (sorry i had a graphic glitch and lost where his post was) about Target of Target. I allow myself to underline that point. Target of Target, or Health of Target's Target (HoTT) as many of us know it from EQ, is a quite essential tool for the modern gamer, even the 'old school' one, to help with "target-overview".
It is so useful for many many goals :
There are dozens of other reasons to advocate for 'Target of Target', these are probably the main ones which I thought of spontaneously.
Please please consider implementing 'Target of Target'. And make it toggable if some players feel uncomfortable with it, however I don't see why.
Adonhiram said:Please please consider implementing 'Target of Target'. And make it toggable if some players feel uncomfortable with it, however I don't see why.
You are referring to 2 separate functions here. One of them I've used in games before. "Assist" allows me to target whatever mob that my defensive target is targeting. I believe it is fairly common in games and I believe VR has said we will have an assist function. I would go so far as to support being able to set one group member (generally the Tank) as the default 'source' for Assist, so that even if I accidentally click on a different group member, the Assist key will always target whoever the default choice is targeting until I change the default.
The second function you refer to is to see who you're offensive target is targeting. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I understand how useful it could be, that's my main concern about having it. It's almost like being able to read the mind of the mob to see who is at the top of his Hate list, before he has attacked anyone. It would greatly simplify -perhaps trivialize? - a melee's job of learning to moderate their attacks and use their 'hate dump' abilities to avoid pulling agro.
That may be more advantage over enemies than I want to have. I'm not saying it for sure. I've never had or considered this function before. It just seems like a huge help.
Jothany said:Adonhiram said:Please please consider implementing 'Target of Target'. And make it toggable if some players feel uncomfortable with it, however I don't see why.
You are referring to 2 separate functions here. One of them I've used in games before. "Assist" allows me to target whatever mob that my defensive target is targeting. I believe it is fairly common in games and I believe VR has said we will have an assist function. I would go so far as to support being able to set one group member (generally the Tank) as the default 'source' for Assist, so that even if I accidentally click on a different group member, the Assist key will always target whoever the default choice is targeting until I change the default.
The second function you refer to is to see who you're offensive target is targeting. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I understand how useful it could be, that's my main concern about having it. It's almost like being able to read the mind of the mob to see who is at the top of his Hate list, before he has attacked anyone. It would greatly simplify -perhaps trivialize? - a melee's job of learning to moderate their attacks and use their 'hate dump' abilities to avoid pulling agro.
That may be more advantage over enemies than I want to have. I'm not saying it for sure. I've never had or considered this function before. It just seems like a huge help.
Hello Jothany, no I am not referring to two separate functions. I definitely mean "Target of Target", an UI feature which allows you to monitor the target of your target. In EQ it is called "Health of Target's Target". In Pantheon, because you have two different targets (offensive and defensive), there could logically be two different Target of Target. UI-wise, it would make sense that these display as perhaps smaller life/mana bars left and right under the ot and under the dt window (which by default, as suggest the streams we saw, are left and right from your action and spell bars). They should be toggable for people who don't like having too much information on the UI. Target of Target is not an action, it is an UI feature.
"Assist" on the other hand is a command (which you certainly should hotkey !) and therefore an action - typing or clicking your /assist hotkey has an effect : it makes you acquiring the target of the target. It is not an UI feature, it is a slash command.
I do advocate for implementing Target of Target (both the offensive and the defensive one) so you can monitor how your two targets switch their targets, making /assist(ing) way easier to use. It significantly reduces your reaction time to /assist whom or what you should if you can monitor what your targets have themselves on target. For example, it is quicker for the enchanter or the rogue to react when they see the main tank (often the defensive target) changing targets before the mob died, which usually means there is a potential threat (an add for example). Same applies when your offensive target switches target, you need to know when something is wrong and your mob has not anymore the main tank on target (for the healer, to fast heal the caster whoi just draw aggro from the tank for example).
It also shows who is focusing on the fight behind his screen and who is watching some TV series^^