Forums » Crafting

How many crafting professions can we know at once?

    • 91 posts
    January 20, 2021 6:36 PM PST

    I like systems where you can learn all professions. 

    Or .. if we don't go down that path a system like Lineage 2 is also really fun. In this system you can either be the crafter or the gatherer. This forces you to rely on others or to create alts yourself and split time which I don't want to do for Pantheon in the beginning at all.

    Cheers

    -= CaffeineInjected =-

    • 1833 posts
    January 21, 2021 8:15 AM PST

    Here's what I'm looking at right now.  This may change based on how the gameplay for both crafting and gathering develops and player feedback during alpha/beta.

    Gathering:

    Each character can learn the basics of all six gathering professions.  They can choose to specialize in two of those professions and achieve mastery in one of them.

    Specialization and mastery will be important because they will improve your efficiency and give you tools that make it easier to gather exotic resources or to gather in more hostile environments.

    A simple example:  Anyone can attempt to skin the scales off a freshly-killed dragon, but someone who has specialized or mastered skinning will have a much easier time of it and likely get much better yields from it.

     

    Crafting:

    Each character can pursue one base crafting profession.  As they advance, they will be able to specialize in different aspects of that profession, but not all of them.

    Specialization will be important because it will improve your ability to make specific types of items, and make it easier to create very high-end items of that type.

    A simple example:  You start off as a blacksmith and then you later decide you want to specialize in swords.  This makes it easier for you to create legendary-quality swords, but the tradeoff is that it would be much harder for you to create a legendary-quality piece of chain armor, although you could still make the attempt.

    Something that I am considering, but have not yet decided on, is treating consumable crafting professions like cooking and alchemy separately from finished item crafting.  If I were to do that, you would be able to have one profession of each type at the same time.

     

    Again, this is something that may change as things develop and based on feedback during alpha/beta.  Progression is one of the last things we'll lock in for crafting and gathering, and we have a lot of other aspects to implement and test still before we're at that point.

    Please feel free to discuss pros/cons as you all see them.  All feedback is good feedback and like I said, this isn't set in stone yet.

    • 2170 posts
    January 21, 2021 8:49 AM PST

    You're going to need to explain how a given tradeskill splits from the base crafting profession into the more specialized ones, specifically detailing what those specialized skills are.

    Your example of Blacksmith as the base skill then the specialization of Swords.  Does that mean Blunt, Piercing, Edged and Fist weapons are all their own specialization?  Or does Blacksmith split into Armorcraft and Weaponcraft.

    Previously, it was mentioned that Alchemy as the base skill would split into Potions and Poisons.  I'm guessing that Cooking would split into Food and Drink?

    • 1833 posts
    January 21, 2021 9:13 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    You're going to need to explain how a given tradeskill splits from the base crafting profession into the more specialized ones, specifically detailing what those specialized skills are.

    Your example of Blacksmith as the base skill then the specialization of Swords.  Does that mean Blunt, Piercing, Edged and Fist weapons are all their own specialization?  Or does Blacksmith split into Armorcraft and Weaponcraft.

    Previously, it was mentioned that Alchemy as the base skill would split into Potions and Poisons.  I'm guessing that Cooking would split into Food and Drink?

    All of that's still TBD, which is why I didn't go into more detail.  Like I said, progression is one of the last aspects of the system that will be finalized.

    I will say my preference is to have tighter categories than just "armor/weapons" or "food/drink" but I also want those categories to be meaningful choices and make sense to players :)

    • 20 posts
    January 21, 2021 9:39 AM PST

    For any chance of a healthy market, the less classes you can master is better.  So people dont just make their own stuff and never gets traded.

    Buuut without knowing how many characters we get per account, still a bit hard to say.

    (Ignoring all the idiots who go and buy like 20 accounts...)

    • 116 posts
    January 21, 2021 10:08 AM PST

    I kind of hope that consumable crafting does end up in its own separate sphere sounds like it would be interesting, and if there are a number of specializations there it means more diversity that a player can have access to. 

    • 36 posts
    January 21, 2021 2:10 PM PST

    Well, I don't chime in much, but since this probably the one current concept I'd like to see deep-sixed, I wholeheartedly agree with the original poster.

    I would very much like to have all tradeskill and all gathering capable of being done by one character.  I want my tradeskilling experience to be long and varied, rich and deep.  I want it to take months.  But once I've mastered one skill, I would like to be able to do another one.  On the same character.  And eventually mastering them all.

    In fact, it is my hope that this will be revisted before launch and changed.  Barring that, in game options like quests or AA's that increase the amount of skills you can undertake would be preferable.  Doesn't have to be at launch -- somewhere down the line is fine.

    But I don't want to have to level an alt just to do another tradeskill.

    Alternate idea:  If it's just me that wants this, then fine, let everyone else have one tradeskill/gathering.  And just give me them all =p.  You have my solemn promise not to break the economy.

    ~Hiwin

     

    • 121 posts
    January 21, 2021 4:34 PM PST

    I do usually agree with you Nephele, especially regarding crafting and honestly I'm mostly in your camp here too. 

    I do like the idea of being able to gather everything, at least to "some" Basic level.  But, won't that level change as you level your character?   For example,  gathering roots for tailoring could be done at level one.  I mean it is kind of just "picking stuff up" and putting into a bag :)  It's kind of trivial.  But what is "trivial" at level 10? 20? 40? 50?  Does it stay the same? Does the "basics" of all 6 gathering skills advance with level? Or does knowing the basic just mean you'll never gather a rare, except in your chosen gathering profession?

    On the crafting side, I'm torn. I completely see the intent of having you master one and only craft. It improves the trading economy.  Case closed there, IMHO.   

    But... I'd like to be able to advance a little even after mastery, since I love crafting.   What if you allowed ONE crafting profession up to level 25...and if you mastered it, you could select a second mastery profession from 26-50?   Would that not make crafting twice as interesting?   I'm especially concerned for the crafter who happens to master the craft that no one wants, or the economy deems the least important.

    Also since I'm playing a Monk on go live, I'll likely select tailoring as my general craft, but I'd like to make Fist/Martial weapons too.  Could that be a second master skill, a specialization, or MUST I trade with others? 

    Still thrilled they selected you, seems to have been the perfect choice.

     


    This post was edited by Nagasakee at January 21, 2021 4:34 PM PST
    • 1833 posts
    January 21, 2021 5:00 PM PST

    Nagasakee said:

    I do usually agree with you Nephele, especially regarding crafting and honestly I'm mostly in your camp here too. 

    I do like the idea of being able to gather everything, at least to "some" Basic level.  But, won't that level change as you level your character?   For example,  gathering roots for tailoring could be done at level one.  I mean it is kind of just "picking stuff up" and putting into a bag :)  It's kind of trivial.  But what is "trivial" at level 10? 20? 40? 50?  Does it stay the same? Does the "basics" of all 6 gathering skills advance with level? Or does knowing the basic just mean you'll never gather a rare, except in your chosen gathering profession?

    Resources in Pantheon won't be so closely linked to adventuring level as they are in other games.  Even if you're doing advanced crafting you will find you might have need for more common (easy) resources.  Likewise, even in low-level adventuring areas you may find some places where advanced gathering skill would be useful.

    Nagasakee said:

    On the crafting side, I'm torn. I completely see the intent of having you master one and only craft. It improves the trading economy.  Case closed there, IMHO.   

    But... I'd like to be able to advance a little even after mastery, since I love crafting.   What if you allowed ONE crafting profession up to level 25...and if you mastered it, you could select a second mastery profession from 26-50?   Would that not make crafting twice as interesting?   I'm especially concerned for the crafter who happens to master the craft that no one wants, or the economy deems the least important.

    Also since I'm playing a Monk on go live, I'll likely select tailoring as my general craft, but I'd like to make Fist/Martial weapons too.  Could that be a second master skill, a specialization, or MUST I trade with others? 

    Still thrilled they selected you, seems to have been the perfect choice.

    For both crafting and gathering there will be a strong horizontal progression alongside the vertical one.  Even if you're a "master", there will still be other way that you can get out there and continue to improve or fine-tune your abilities.

    As far as fist/martial weapons go, there will probably be a split between outfitter, woodworker, and blacksmith.  Exactly what's going to end up where is TBD, but it won't all end up under the same profession.

    • 675 posts
    January 22, 2021 12:56 AM PST

    While I enjoyed EQs coldain prayer shawl quest line, I hope that something like that won't be in Pantheon. You were required to level up all crafting skills (to a pretty high level) to do each quest. No chance to buy stuff, no chance for specialized crafters to shine and make money.

    That said, I still would like to be able to do the basics in every crafting skill. The gathering idea above (all skills can be learned, one or two specialized, one mastered) sounds pretty much perfect...do something similar for crafting too please :)

    • 11 posts
    January 22, 2021 7:21 PM PST

    I've got mixed feelings here...similar to Sarim, CaffeineInjected, vthorm/Hiwin concepts...

    I like the idea of being able to "master all crafts if I put in the time"...Sarim's get to say novice/journeyman rank from a beginner in every craft wouldn't be a bad compromise either. Perhaps how some games allow you to switch out your crafting skills for some sort of in game cost, perhaps after a quest is completed, although I also like the idea of maybe a special object/alternate advancements and perhaps with a penalty 1st crafting class is 100% crafting XP, 2nd is 75%, 3rd is 50%, 4th is 25%, rest also 25% so it would take a really long and determined person to achieve mastery in all crafts available to their class/race.

    I'm cool with Racial and Class, Diety crafting although I feel they should be outside the normal limit(s) Like EverQuest shaman being able to do alchemy as a class craft skill, this skill being required to make your Epic Weapon (Really loved the Epic Quest Concept).

    From the "gaming" I've experienced when a game is new, you'll have tons of crafters and craft items that will be easy to get easy to buy, etc. When the game matures much less lower level crafting is done you'll need to make/beg friends who will make the items for you or you'll need to make alts to get those items. Typically by the end game crafters are either unable to make anything better than the RAIDs drop or not needed for the best gear.

    It'll be cool to see where VR heads with crafting.

    Thoughts on Gathering: if we don't have the skill couldn't we just take the carcass back to the guild and pay for someone/npc from say a "Novice - Master" to get the items for us? (Fees vary from the items and a "Timer" to simulate the "gathering". Granted this would only work on carcasses but I thought it'd make more sense you see it in Anime and even history where a Hunter would bring the game back and had a professional do the tanning of the hide(s), a Taxidermist do the stuffing the head, a butcher do the butchering, etc. Granted the quantity of useful meat gained for someone who can "gather" on-site should be higher unless transporting it in some "magic bag of holding" or something. Also if you happen to be a butcher you'd gain experience on weak spots perhaps a passive crit to monsters you butchered many times.

    As to the art of cooking, I've known some amazing Chefs that can make whatever food/drink/dessert you want, and some who also do other crafts as well. So, I'd prefer food/drink to be excluded from any silly limitations based on crafting they've done. (I could see the argument based on stats like STR, DEX, STA, INT, WIS not enough to get to mastery of certain things. Stats required to get to skills in crafting would make sense. Although CHA would be a fairly useless stat for crafting but excellent for selling/buying/pursuading.

    I have played games where there was "Campfire cooking", "Cooking", "Butchering", "Baking", Advanced (Campfire, Cooking, Baking) (ECO-Strangeloop games) seems to work for that game to split them up but it's not a Fantasy RPG. Would be cool if there were some foods that specific races cooked/learned the recipes and could teach others it (cooking friends). I remember learning languages in groups with people from other races that was really cool in Everquest.

    I totally agree with Sarim about if this ability can be achieved no "quest" item would require mastery of all the crafts on one character allow another craftsman to sell the specific items for a better economy. 

    TL, DR: I like the idea of being able to learn them all on one character, but it should take months IRL to achieve something like this, and not be required in Quests perhaps available sometime in the future (planned through AA's/Gated Quests or at least be able to be switched and kept).


    This post was edited by Indomidable at January 22, 2021 7:32 PM PST
    • 58 posts
    January 23, 2021 10:37 AM PST

    I got tired of the "one man crafting army" since EQ and FF14.  It makes crafting ... well ... solo.  No interaction with other crafters.  Meh.

     

    I'd like some interaction, be it through materials made and traded in some form.  Or as another poster suggested, perhaps start with one craft profession, master it, then get an AA or do a quest or something that allows a player to open up another crafting line to do.

    • 7 posts
    January 26, 2021 8:18 AM PST

    Sarim said:

    While I enjoyed EQs coldain prayer shawl quest line, I hope that something like that won't be in Pantheon. You were required to level up all crafting skills (to a pretty high level) to do each quest. No chance to buy stuff, no chance for specialized crafters to shine and make money.

    That said, I still would like to be able to do the basics in every crafting skill. The gathering idea above (all skills can be learned, one or two specialized, one mastered) sounds pretty much perfect...do something similar for crafting too please :)

     

    I feel the exact opposite. I find the opportunity to excel across all fields compelling and quests to show off that proficiency rewarding. I can understand some of the market forces to limit progression, but would really appreciate a way to progress. Perhaps the prayer shawl was too good, BIS for many classes, but devs have already dismissed the idea of having 1 BIS item.

    If mastery is too restrictive, it will become difficult to find specialists. Why make and sell 1 type of weapon, when you can sell entire sets of armor. I can foresee bow or staff masters being very rare, because the demand for there products, specifically high end products, being low, which also depresses my desire to pursue being a master bowyer. 


    This post was edited by Silvermink at January 26, 2021 8:20 AM PST
    • 98 posts
    January 30, 2021 8:40 PM PST

    I find it an interesting decision to have even crafters within a class being different at the highest level of skill. There's upsides and downsides to the approach, of course. It would, by necessity, mean crafting the strongest equipment would likely require you to find someone you don't necessarily know, but at the same time I find it difficult to believe that each specialization will be of roughly equal value. This can mean that someone can reach the highest level of a craft, even pick a specialization that seems cool... only to be slapped the heck down by the market share being very small for their specilization. Silvermink touches on this, that some masteries will be very rare compared to others due to the results being useful to a greater quantity of the playerbase. A weaponsmith specializing in swords would have a wide variety of customers, but if maces end up being equally potent as DPS weapons they might be significantly more valuable due to being the entire sword market share plus the healer market share.

    It's an interesting concept, one I'm excited to see the results of, but I'll profess to some doubts that it is possible to do in a way that pleases even a majority of 'specialization enthusiasts' like myself. I look forward to it!

    • 91 posts
    February 5, 2021 8:19 AM PST

    My responses inline in ORANGE

    Nephele said:

    Here's what I'm looking at right now.  This may change based on how the gameplay for both crafting and gathering develops and player feedback during alpha/beta.

    Gathering:

    Each character can learn the basics of all six gathering professions.  They can choose to specialize in two of those professions and achieve mastery in one of them.

    Specialization and mastery will be important because they will improve your efficiency and give you tools that make it easier to gather exotic resources or to gather in more hostile environments.

    A simple example:  Anyone can attempt to skin the scales off a freshly-killed dragon, but someone who has specialized or mastered skinning will have a much easier time of it and likely get much better yields from it.

     I think this is fine and I like this approach. Various MMO's have had this approach and I see no issue with it.

    Crafting:

    Each character can pursue one base crafting profession.  As they advance, they will be able to specialize in different aspects of that profession, but not all of them.

    Specialization will be important because it will improve your ability to make specific types of items, and make it easier to create very high-end items of that type.

    A simple example:  You start off as a blacksmith and then you later decide you want to specialize in swords.  This makes it easier for you to create legendary-quality swords, but the tradeoff is that it would be much harder for you to create a legendary-quality piece of chain armor, although you could still make the attempt.

    Something that I am considering, but have not yet decided on, is treating consumable crafting professions like cooking and alchemy separately from finished item crafting.  If I were to do that, you would be able to have one profession of each type at the same time.

     

    Again, this is something that may change as things develop and based on feedback during alpha/beta.  Progression is one of the last things we'll lock in for crafting and gathering, and we have a lot of other aspects to implement and test still before we're at that point.

    Please feel free to discuss pros/cons as you all see them.  All feedback is good feedback and like I said, this isn't set in stone yet.

     

    This is also fine. It promotes more cross dependency on other players as you cannot have all professioins on one. I actuall have changed my stance on this. In an effort to make players depend more on each other I feel 1 main profession per character is the way to go here. So I like this approach as well.


    This post was edited by Caffeineinjected at February 5, 2021 8:20 AM PST
    • 208 posts
    March 30, 2021 1:33 PM PDT

    I think one class with one specialization into one mastery is better. you open the market up for more players to be part of the marketplace and not have one person with 10-20 alts controlling it.

    • 4 posts
    April 10, 2021 2:48 PM PDT

    Hello everyone!

    I’d like to throw my opinion into the proverbial ring as well seeing as Nephele requested feedback on his ideas for the crafting system so far. I sincerely hope I don’t come off as being dismissive of anyone else’s opinions, I merely want to express my own thoughts regarding the discussion above.

    I, personally, don’t understand why players would want to be able to ‘master’ EVERY available crafting profession. Being able to craft legendary items for each and every equipment slot as well as the highest level consumables by yourself would make the MMO part of the game invalid. If you can just make everything yourself, why even bother playing with others? Why trade? Why rely on your guild or group of friends?

    To me, it feels like an attitude or thought process that’s brought over from single player RPG games like Skyrim or Breath of the Wild, where you can do everything and master every aspect of the game without needing any outside assistance. That sort of play-style makes complete sense in games like those, however, in an MMORPG, if everyone could do everything- no one would want to bother with interacting with one another. This is also why not every class can tank, heal and DPS all-in-one and why you can’t just solo dungeons by yourself. The game NEEDS systems wherein players are forced to depend on one another and seek each other out.

    Crafting bring specialised makes it so that not only is there more player-to-player interaction but also stops monopolies of one person being the ‘go-to’ guy for all weapons, armours, food/drinks, potions on the server just because they spend every waking hour of the day grinding. It facilitates a healthier, more diverse in-game economy where everyone can pitch in.

    Additionally, making players choose a specific profession to specialise in adds so much identity to who you are and what you do on your server. It makes your character unique in a sense (For eg- you could be the master bowyer in your guild who supplies all the arrows and bows for your crew of Rangers while another guild member could be the communal armour-smith whose job it is to outfit the tanks in defensive layers of heavy plate). If you could just make everything, then no-one has any ‘special’ worth or individual identity. Every character is just a bland “crafter”.

    I do understand that people don’t want to miss out on the different flavours of crafting offered by each specialisation/profession but I feel like it is a necessary sacrifice to make in order for the overall betterment of the game. 
    (Plus, crafting alts are always an option if you simply can't go without experiencing every aspect of the system)


    This post was edited by Ravencraft at April 10, 2021 3:57 PM PDT
    • 1642 posts
    April 10, 2021 5:43 PM PDT

    Ravencraft said: ... I, personally, don’t understand why players would want to be able to ‘master’ EVERY available crafting profession. Being able to craft legendary items for each and every equipment slot as well as the highest level consumables by yourself would make the MMO part of the game invalid. If you can just make everything yourself, why even bother playing with others? Why trade? Why rely on your guild or group of friends? ... 

    As with many things, there are degrees of effect.  Those in my guild will master all the professions necessary ( on separate/additional dedicated accounts, if necessary ) to provide every crafted item that is of value to everyone in the guild for free.  Including consumables.  We have no interest in participating full time in part time game loops.

    I'll explain what that means.  Combat is a full time game loop, in most MMOs.  It's the primary way that players and characters interact with the game world.  Game loops like crafting, harvesting, diplomacy, or similar non-combat loops are typically designed and implemented as an afterthought or extra game loop that isn't intended to be played full time.  Why is that our opinion?  Because those systems don't have the time, resource, or similar demands that combat has.  You don't need to be in a full group to perform crafting combines, with a full set of similar crafters at the same moment.  You don't need a full group for diplomacy.  You don't need a full group to harvest.  The equipment, skills, spells, classes, and roles are all designed with the solo player in mind, not the immediate temporally concurrent group as is the case with combat.

    Yet, for some reason, despite not designing the non-combat game loops to require the same demands as the combat loop, artificial interdependency is attempted to be forced.  I mean, it has been attempted in many games, and the historical result are extortion, monopolies, cartels, and more.  People aren't going to stand by and be taken advantage of by collusionmonopoliespredatory pricingprice fixingarbitrage, or similar anti-competitive practices.  At least, we're not, having gone through all that before.
    This is supposed to be a game.  Positive entertainment that I'm paying money for.  Hopefully, it will be fun. :)

    So, for us (me and those in my guild looking forward to Pantheon) we will do everything in our power to eliminate the tedium, negative social interaction, time sinks and similiar, and get to the fun.  All of us have seen the realities of attempted forced interdependency in the past, and there's no indication Pantheon will be any different.  While it may come down to each of us having crafting alts that do everything, it's more likely we'll split up the professions so the guild will have at least one of each profession available during prime time hours, and freely trade amongst ourselves, completely ignoring any markets.  We'll also collectively store all our harvests so we won't be, again, taken advantage of by other players looking to extort, corner a market, or attempt arbitrage in a setting where arbitrage is laughably impossible.

    As this is also a game where coin and equippable equipment will evidently drop directly from NPCs/enemies without any intermediate steps being required, we fully intend to farm all (and entire) zones that are farmable until we have all the resources we could possibly use for ourselves and our alts.  Including currency, anything that can be salvaged, and anything similar that is generated from loot tables as a factor of time.  Given there are no camps, we fully intend to treat every zones as The Deep is currently treated on EQ1 TLP, for those that are familiar.

    It's also our understanding from talking about Pantheon with other TLP players and guilds for the past 7+ years, that this is the intended play style of many guilds there who are also looking forward to Pantheon.  We fully expect there will also be an in-game and/or out of game global market/bazaar/channel for buying and selling that completely bypasses any attempts the game puts in place to prevent such a convenience.  Just like any modern MMO or multiplayer game that has attempted such a thing, including EQ1 TLP.

    As far as the limitations on crafting professions, harvesting professions, or similar (per character) there's no indication Visionary Realms will ever enforce these limits at the account level, making them fundamentally meaningless to any serious, hardcore, or orgranized player or group of players.  As such, it's only going to be a mild inconvenience to players that are ignorant, solo, casual, or not in a guild.

    • 4 posts
    April 11, 2021 12:25 PM PDT

    vjek said:

    As with many things, there are degrees of effect.  Those in my guild will master all the professions necessary ( on separate/additional dedicated accounts, if necessary ) to provide every crafted item that is of value to everyone in the guild for free.  Including consumables.  We have no interest in participating full time in part time game loops.

    Boy, you've had really bad experiences with ingame-markets and traders huh? 

    I understand where you're coming from. I don't see any issues with what you've said; You and your guild intend to stick together and master all the crafting systems required to ensure that you don't need to look outside the guild for help. It seems like you (and others in your guild) feel strongly about crafting being a 'part time game loop' and only want to engage with it as much as you need to. MMOs have lots of things to do for a reason- you can focus on the things you enjoy doing and ignore the rest (for the most part). That seems totally fine and I don't think any of the Devs would have a problem with players taking that approach either since, in the end, you are bringing together a group of people (your guild) and are adventuring and experiencing the game together - which is what an MMO is all about anyway. 

    And I doubt that every single player in the game is going to go about it that way so it won't effect the economy very much since the majority of people will still be trading and dealing with each other instead of only relying on a tight-knit group of friends. 

    vjek said:

    Yet, for some reason, despite not designing the non-combat game loops to require the same demands as the combat loop, artificial interdependency is attempted to be forced.  I mean, it has been attempted in many games, and the historical result are extortion, monopolies, cartels, and more.  People aren't going to stand by and be taken advantage of by collusionmonopoliespredatory pricingprice fixingarbitrage, or similar anti-competitive practices.  At least, we're not, having gone through all that before

    These things are just part of human nature. You cannot feasibly find a way to stop people from trying to get even the slightest advtange if they can, in one way or another. The Devs can try their best to police the things you mentioned above or figure out ways to downplay the effect they have on the game but they will never be able to fully stop or discourage certain types of players from trying to get the most out of others by any means necessary. That's just how humans are, sadly.
    (These sort of negative interactions exist beyond just crafting too so it isn't like it's purely a problem caused by the existence of crafting/trading systems in the game. EG: Ninja-looting, Spawn camping in PVP, griefing druing raids etc.)

    These practices exist in most others MMORPGs I've played (WoW/ESO/FFXIV) but as a casual player (like the majority of any games' population tends to be), I was never really affected by it in a way that was much more than just a small inconvenince. Perhaps if I played games at a very high-level and was a 'hardcore player' then it might be much more annoying. 



    • 1642 posts
    April 11, 2021 11:18 PM PDT

    IMO:
    There is very little difference between a single player or customer having access to all crafting & harvesting professions, via alts, and what our guild plans on doing.
    It comes down to the time it takes to relog & transfer items.  Given there is no hard line policy against multi-boxing, or even againts having multiple concurrent accounts active from the same IP address, a single player can trivially do it all themselves.

    Given that scenario, it seems like objectively poor design to inconvenience the casual & ignorant customers in an attempt to ineffectively stop customers who won't be affected in the slightest.
    It's the same discussion as player vs. character.  It's perfectly fine that a player can do it all, but it's not fine that a character can? 
    Where's the logic in that?  Again, it's a punitive design & implementation that only affects the casual & ignorant.  Not ideal, from my perspective.  And definitely less fun.

    Lastly, setting aside some minor hurdles and race/class edge cases, a single player in EQ1 can/could "Master" all the crafting professions themselves.  Sure, before AA's you had to pick, but after, no limit.  It was simply a time & resource investment.
    Even there, though?  It was almost always cheaper, faster, easier, and better, in the long run, to skill up a craft yourself than it was to buy materials from strangers.  The market was no market at all.  It was simply another 'extort the ignorant' toxic interaction.  "Hey, I need 100 of these to skill-up, can you make them?" Sure, that'll be 10k platinum.  Uhmm.. no.  I can skill-up that skill to 200+, entirely and completely, total, for 100 plat.  And then I did, repeatedly.  It was/is just ludicrous.

    It's why I always am skeptical of the hypothetical use cases.  Within a guild, at least all the guilds I've ever been in, no-one charges anyone for anything, you just (maybe) provide the raws, or pull them from the guild bank, and they make the thing, and on you go.  There's no value to the economy whatsoever.  There's no social interaction at all, in any meaningful way outside of talking in Discord.  It certainly doesn't contribute to any positive emergent and/or social gameplay with anyone outside the guild.
    So, then, who is going to participate in this great harvesting and crafting co-operative utopia?  Unguilded solo'ers?  Best case they'll get extorted by monopoly guilds taking advantage of ignorance, once, one time.
    This mythical situation where two random strangers are suddenly going to start making (and selling at cost) dozens, hundreds, or thousands of sub-combines, sub-components, or whatever other thing, widget, or resource is required to each skill-up a tradeskill to Master?  I've never seen it, personally, and I don't see it happening in Pantheon.