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The Value of Community Hopefuls and Skeptics

    • 34 posts
    January 4, 2021 6:56 PM PST

    Cognitive diversity says, in a nutshell, leave yourself open to learn. Never be too confident that you have the sole right answer and understand that situations can be interpreted in many ways that are all “correct.” Someone who thinks differently isn’t your enemy, they are a key to unlocking more knowledge, and empowering your level of knowledge and experience to further tackle complicated or complex issues within the community. Don’t let yourself get caught in the noise of those in the edge case group either. Don’t let these people ruin your thoughts on others who are often grouped in the same side but are not so “radical.” In a society so hell-bent on dividing us, our community can be better than that. Both sides have a way to go in understanding one another. Those in the middle have it figured out, and the more we can pull into that group, the stronger we will all become.

    Check out our newest video, and first of 2021 that tackles this topic, and i'm curious what everyone thinks. 

     


    https://youtu.be/kDT400aUVkI

     

     


    This post was edited by Minus at January 4, 2021 7:52 PM PST
    • 273 posts
    January 5, 2021 6:07 AM PST

    VR's biggest mistake was billing Pantheon as the successor to EverQuest.

    Making direct comparisons to EQ (and Vanguard) elicits a reaction, such that anyone with an emotional connection to EverQuest will be skeptical of any decision that takes Pantheon further from what their vision and memory of EverQuest was and is.

    Likewise, there are people of the old-school mindset that got started with different games of the era that have a questionable opinion of EverQuest, but are still aching for that old-school experience. Counter to the first group, equating Pantheon with EverQuest so early on invokes skepticism that Pantheon will ever be fresh or original, able to stand on its own legs in a crowded, but stale genre. I, and most of my friends that are still playing MMOs, fall in this group.

    Neither group is particularly wrong, but it would have been good enough to say that Pantheon is the latest MMO from the mind of Brad McQuaid, an old-school MMO for the modern era.

    Ultimately, there are two ways this will go. VR will have some more successful pre-alpha/alpha sessions, secure a publisher, and be able to release the game they want to make. Or, they will continue to stumble through alpha sessions, publishers will shy away, and VR will be forced to release the game they have. Either way we're getting a game, at least if Mr. Dean is to be trusted (I do), but I think it is safe to say everyone would prefer it be the former scenario rather than the latter.

    • 2038 posts
    January 5, 2021 3:57 PM PST

    eunichron said: VR's biggest mistake was billing Pantheon as the successor to EverQuest.

    Because of Brad's renown due to EQ, I honestly don't think the description of 'successor to EQ' could have been avoided to any significant degree no matter what VR ever said about Pantheon.

    That said, I don't disagree with you about the 2 assumptions made about Pantheon and their affect on expectations.

    • 77 posts
    January 5, 2021 11:22 PM PST

    Are fansite self promotions allowed in the General Discussion Forum now?

     

    I know Kilsin as been promoting fansites lately, but he's rationlized it as "official business" whenever he posts.  I guess the Community Guidelines have changed and fansites can self-promote in General now?

    • 34 posts
    January 6, 2021 5:31 AM PST
    Sorry Olympues. No issues with this being moved, but I posted it here more for the discussion. Sorry if it upset you. Wasn't trying to do anything against the forum rules.
    • 947 posts
    January 6, 2021 6:50 AM PST

    Fansites can promote their content on the forums as long as it is in the proper category.  This may be moved to Off-Topic, but I see no reason that community cohesion (or division) couldn't be discussed in "General discussion" (that will be Kilsin's choice).

    I haven't watched the video yet, but the introduction was well written and I will definitely check it out when I get more time.

    • 10 posts
    January 6, 2021 5:18 PM PST
    Perhaps linking a fan made vid is not proper here... but Minus isn't trying to promote his content here, imo; rather he is trying to bring up a very relevant discussion to Pantheon's community. If it is possible to find common ground for many people/perspectives in the Pantheon community, it would be a good thing for the project overall, seeing that building community is a core tenet of the game.

    Even minimal research into Pantheon will turn up a lot of skepticism and even some misinformation. Of course there are valid reasons for people feeling uncertain, and Minus does a good job of presenting some core reasons why.

    Yes there are cans of worms here... and it's unlikely any level or transparency from VR will be able to change the minds of those who have no faith in the creation of Pantheon, but personally I think the more clear communication from all sides the more clarity and less drama there will believe.

    Maybe the community's attitude will only have a minor effect on the actual dev team, but the more support and interest the better imo.

    Personally I tend to be a hopeful idealist, but a lifetime of experience has tempered that with plenty of reality checks. Even still, we might as well hope for the best, right?
    • 10 posts
    January 6, 2021 5:20 PM PST
    Pardon the dumb typos and poor grammar... i didn't realize I can't edit my post here lol. Mobile input ftw O.o
    • Moderator
    • 9115 posts
    January 7, 2021 1:26 PM PST

    Had to move to Fansites due to linking to your own fan-created video, self-advertising is against the guidelines so anything that is promoting your site needs to go to Fansite please :)


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at January 7, 2021 1:27 PM PST
    • 2419 posts
    January 16, 2021 3:06 PM PST

    The value of skeptics is they force the developers to confront issues, topics, errors, omissions they would rather avoid or ignore.  Skeptics hold developers to the mark.  Skeptics call out the bullshit, the lies, the misinformation, the stall tactics unlike the sycophants who never question anything.

    • 3016 posts
    January 20, 2021 10:30 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    The value of skeptics is they force the developers to confront issues, topics, errors, omissions they would rather avoid or ignore.  Skeptics hold developers to the mark.  Skeptics call out the bullshit, the lies, the misinformation, the stall tactics unlike the sycophants who never question anything.

    But Vandraad,  a lot of that ...so called bs lies ..etc are assumptions,  not proof, not truth.  Sometimes its just plain old trolling.  I would tend to believe someone if they offered details on why they think such a thing,  and proof that..that is actually what is going on...I don't tend to accept declarations like that unless it has a ring of truth to it,  and not just some disgruntled "fan" who thinks they know it all..when they don't.  I usually assign a Dollar Store crystal ball ..to their rantings.... Prove it..or I am not going to believe it.   There are lots of things that happen in the background of game development that the general population isn't privy to..sometimes just as well,  I personally don't want to be fed minute details of the current coding going on..or mishaps behind the scenes,  because they had to go back and revamp something.   I have been around gaming for literally years,   some of that information would make my eyes glaze over if we were fed that on a constant basis.    This team is professional and in my view amazing,  they have kept this project going despite the set backs...changes of team,  the loss of Mr. McQuaid and Molad.   Give them some credit for having the guts and motivation to keep going.     And we as fans should sometimes throw in a bit of moral support...........to keep this project humming along.

    Cana

    • 3016 posts
    January 20, 2021 10:30 AM PST

    Sorry double post please delete

    Cana


    This post was edited by CanadinaXegony at January 20, 2021 10:46 AM PST
    • 3016 posts
    January 20, 2021 10:43 AM PST

    One more thing...if you want to criticize something about the game...say a certain game mechanic or what have you...make it constructive criticism....that means you found a problem AND you have a suggestion how to fix that problem.    That is more likely to be considered,  than assigning nefarious accusations when you don't actually have proof that is the case, but are making an assumption...that has no basis in reality.

     

    Cana