Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Are Modifying Attributes no longer a thing?

    • 612 posts
    December 30, 2020 4:53 AM PST

    If you don't know what Modifying Attributes are, we had a thread (source) about them when they were first shown off in a Stream so go read that if you want to know what they are all about.

    So during a discussion over in the crafting Forum there was a point brought up (source) of how adding specific stats to items when crafting might effect lower level players who would thus be having more stats than they should for their level. This line of thinking of course brought up the idea of Twinking, which then brought up the topic of item Scaling based on level. This lead me to look up an older video where Joppa spoke about this item scaling which I then quoted in that thread. This then got me thinking about how Skill vs Stats vs Modifying Attributes could be used to determine how much bonus a character gets to their dmg or whatever based on their level.

    During my pondering I wanted to see footage where we see the tooltips of these abilities and their modifying attributes, so I pulled up the first Dire Lord video with Cohh (source) where you can clearly see him go through the abilities and see their tooltips with these Modifying Attributes.

    But then I remembered we have a much more recent Dire Lord video (source) where Joppa shows us the Dire Lord abilities in the new UI spellbook. So it might be better to use this more up to date footage of the latest Abilities and their Modifying Attributes. Yet as I watched him going through the Dire Lord abilities in this more recent video, there is Zero mention of Modifying Attributes anywhere anymore.

    Which brings me of course to the point of this post;

    Has Modifying Attributes been dropped from the game?
    or
    Are they still in the game but just not shown on those recent tooltips?

    Here is hoping a Dev might actually chime in at let us know if this is still something we will be seeing or if the idea was scrapped in the past year or 2.


    This post was edited by GoofyWarriorGuy at December 30, 2020 4:54 AM PST
    • 1479 posts
    December 30, 2020 8:58 AM PST

    I'd think they were removed from tooltips to avoid offering too much min maxing straightforward. But that's just based on my opinion.

    • 1921 posts
    December 30, 2020 9:48 AM PST

    MauvaisOeil said:

    I'd think they were removed from tooltips to avoid offering too much min maxing straightforward. But that's just based on my opinion.

    What do you mean by "to avoid offering too much min maxing straightforward" ?

    • 633 posts
    December 30, 2020 12:53 PM PST

    I think he means to add ambiguity to what effect different stats have on different spells and abilities, so that people don't just straight up try to maximum the use of specific abilities by intentionally going after specific stats.  As opposed to letting stats go up organically and just "feeling" your character is doing well.

    • 1479 posts
    December 30, 2020 1:00 PM PST

    No explicit tooltips makes the game beeing disassembled and widely spread at a slower rate. It will ultimately happen, but less likely before the first few months or the first year, especially if testing proves to be challenging to some extent.

    • 113 posts
    December 30, 2020 5:22 PM PST

    Interesting catch there thanks Goofy. I have trouble believing they would take out such basic things as CHA has an effect on Charm. That seems like such an ingrained thing but who knows.

    At a quick glance, the new website also no longer lists them.

    In another thread about stats, I had gone through every class ability on the old site at the time and copy pasted every ability that listed a modifying attribute (not sure how to link direct to my post of them sorry lol): https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/12274/pantheon-attributes

    Someone feel free to format it better and add here if you'd like, I apparently did not do very well with that :)

     

    On the above list Dire Lord only had 1 ability listing a stat. Obviously that list was not of every class ability, as it still is not on the current site, so take that with a grain of salt. That being said, the 1 ability Dire Lord had at the time with one was Sanguine Shield, which we see in the stream Goofy linked at around 14:35 and the description is Totally different than what I had pasted in my post from the website.

    It said

    "Sanguine Shield

    You draw out your blood and form it into a solid shield in front of you, dampening the damage of magical attacks against you for 2 seconds. There is a chance the damage will be nullified completely and this chance will increase based on your Constitution. (Uses Essence)"

     

    The big question there is was it changed for balance reasons or specifcially because of having an attribute tie? The stat tie was for a specific function of a % chance to negate 100% damage. Perhaps that was pre-mastery points thinking?

    I would also point out the character creation video for PA5 where Joppa insinuates there is good reason to what you put points in to, however that doesn't mean they don't still matter even if skills do not use them directly.


    This post was edited by GeneralReb at December 30, 2020 5:27 PM PST
    • 1281 posts
    January 1, 2021 1:37 PM PST

    My understanding is you can modify your base stats at character creation but I am unaware of any kind of stat modification during level up.

    I think they should leave all stat modification to gear selection. I would actually prefer even base stats not being modified. If you allow people to change stats at level up, many will eventually complain that they messed up (not perfectly min/max) and will cry for ways to respec your character. By leaving it gear based you don't need to add any of that. Want diferent specs? Change your gear. Problem solved.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at January 1, 2021 1:39 PM PST
    • 523 posts
    January 1, 2021 2:37 PM PST

    The modifying attributes in the original class designs were absolutely awesome and gave a lot of potential versatility in builds.  If VR had to remove them due to lack of programming talent and/or numbers, thats a real shame.  I'm hoping this is a feature not removed from the game, no way to spin it other than a huge negative in my book if so.

    • 633 posts
    January 1, 2021 2:41 PM PST

    bigdogchris said:

    My understanding is you can modify your base stats at character creation but I am unaware of any kind of stat modification during level up.

    I think they should leave all stat modification to gear selection. I would actually prefer even base stats not being modified. If you allow people to change stats at level up, many will eventually complain that they messed up (not perfectly min/max) and will cry for ways to respec your character. By leaving it gear based you don't need to add any of that. Want diferent specs? Change your gear. Problem solved.

    I believe what he is referring to is how stats modify the effects or potency of spells.  Such as a high wisdom may cause "Spell A" to heal more damage per tick, while a high stamina may cause the same "Spell A" to have a longer duration.

    • 1860 posts
    January 1, 2021 9:21 PM PST

    Just to simplify:

    Has Modifying Attributes been dropped from the game?
    or
    Are they still in the game but just not shown on those recent tooltips?

    Good question.  I don't believe this has been addressed.

    • 523 posts
    January 5, 2021 6:38 PM PST

    Guessing that the fact they haven't cleared this up yet might suggest it's bad news.  Jason Weimann talked alot about this, so he might have been the primary programmer making it work, with him now off the team and a lot of code replaced, this extremely awesome idea might no longer be in the cards.  I would assume if it was, somebody would pop in here and just say all is well.

    • 612 posts
    January 12, 2021 7:06 PM PST

    So I tried to bring up this question on Cohh's stream the other day but of course with all the spam in the chat it got lost in the noise and never got answered. I also asked the question on the VisionaryRealms Twitch channel who were hosting Cohh's stream, and Artios answered that he didn't have the answer. So I spoke a bit with him about how we are told often on these streams to ask questions on the Forums and yet none of the Dev's seem to ever answer any questions on the forums. He told me that over the past few months they have been working long and hard and so have been very busy and not had enough time for many of the Dev's to read the forums, but now that this Evaluation Build was ready, things will calm down a bit. He said he would bring this up with the Creative Team and hoped that they would have some more time to answer some of our questions here.

    When the Cohh stream was over, the VisionaryRealms account itself (I'm guessing Ben Dean at the keyboard but not sure) piped up in the chat and said that they would try to be more active in answering questions on the forums. I mentioned that Ben Dean often says in these streams that "Our community is really knowledgable and can answer a lot of your questions" but that sometimes us "Community" need to get some questions answered directly from the Dev's. I mean how can we help pass the info to new people if we never get the info in the first place. Anyway, I thought maybe he would answer my question about Modifying Attributes I had origionally asked, but no such luck. So I'm hoping that maybe he was planning to come over and answer here on the forums.

    So Ben, or whoever it was on the VisionaryRealms twitch account, we are all ears/eyes :-)

    • 187 posts
    January 13, 2021 9:18 PM PST
    Good eye! I loved when it showed which stats modified each ability. This still has to be a feature... no way would they take it out. Can we get some clarification on this please?
    • 2 posts
    January 14, 2021 1:06 AM PST

    The racial abilities indicate that the “Modifying Attributes” are still in place:

    Elves
    Nimble: “Increases the effectiveness of skills & abilities modified by agility.”

    So, it is possible that these are outdated, but I highly doubt that.

    • VR Staff
    • 176 posts
    January 27, 2021 2:37 PM PST

    Mathir said:

    Guessing that the fact they haven't cleared this up yet might suggest it's bad news.  Jason Weimann talked alot about this, so he might have been the primary programmer making it work, with him now off the team and a lot of code replaced, this extremely awesome idea might no longer be in the cards.  I would assume if it was, somebody would pop in here and just say all is well.

    This "extremely awesome idea" is my own, so first: thanks!

    And more importantly, it is still a planned system. As a refresher, the goal here is to give players a bit of agency in achieving a soft specialization based on what stats they prioritize, due to how those stats directly affect certain abilities in thier arsenal.

    More to come on this later.

    • 523 posts
    January 27, 2021 6:50 PM PST

    Yeah baby!  /happydance

    • 612 posts
    January 27, 2021 9:15 PM PST

    Thanks for the responce Joppa