I've been thinking a bit recently on itemization and think that EQ leaves a lot to be desired. In particular, I'm talking about the iconic rare/unique/legendary/epic/best-in-slot/whatever items that people are actually spending time to camp and use.
One way to make things a little more unique is to follow in the footsteps of ARPGs and looter-shooters and give items variable stats within a range. I'm sure this has been discussed 1000 times already, so lets move on.
Another idea, which I haven't seen discussed here before, is having variable cosmetic quality.
For fans of collectable card games, this would be similar to foil cards: the item has exactly the same stats/function as its base version, but on rare instances has an improved appearence (e.g. particles effects, shiny/reflective, exagerated colors, etc). No need to stop at just 1 tier either: certain items could have a base, bronze, silver, gold, and platinum tiers of increasing rarity.
This unique cosmetic appearence creates a mutli-tier economy: the base version of the item is typically much cheaper and more accessible for everybody, while the premium ("foil") versions are much more exclusive and expensive. Devoted players could spend considerable time and money towards replacing all of their favorite gear with premium versions.
It also opens up the possibility of items decaying over time (e.g. your shiny foil armor might degrade back to the base version) and allowing crafters to attempt to repair them, possibly destroying the cosmetic enhancment in the process.
It's also possibe that crafters could add unique cosmetic customizations to an item. Maybe a blacksmith can make your new breastplate extra shiny, but over time it will fade and need to be re-polished to regain it's luster.
Since this is all just cosmetics, it becomes completely optional: many people will be perfectly statisfied with the base item (or an old, decayed premium item) and that's just fine. For those that want to up their cosmetic game or who just need an extra goal to persue, they can turn to these ultra-rare variants.
If you're lucky enough to stumble onto an extremely rare/valuable premium version of a drop, you have the choice to either trade down to a base version (pocketing a lot of cash) or look like the baller you are inside!
I'm not a big fan of Pantheon having varying attributes on it's items, but I could deal with it. I personally would prefer the item in and of itself be desirable enough to constitute someone wanting to farm it as opposed to farming 10 of them until they get the one with the perfect stats. If I wanted that, I'd just play Diablo (which is one of my favorite games, btw).
As for the "foil" idea, I'm not a fan either. Leave that in the Asian/Eastern-styled MMOs. I would let the items have their looks and leave it at that.
These are merely my opinions, so take it for what it is.
Nephele said:Honest question: All else being equal, how many of you would purposefully seek out a weapon or armor piece in order to get a unique look?
Personally, I would. But I wonder how others feel about it.
Yep. Did it all the time in games like LOTRO - I would explore every location I could and check every new vendor for new looks. I would make sure to check the look of dropped gear, even if it didn't have stats I liked, *but* it was so popular in LOTRO because you could store that look in a 'wardrobe' and use it to replace the look of worn gear (if it was the same slot and type).
If you have to swap out worn gear in order to utilise the look, I wouldn't bother looking for them and collecting them in the first place - would be too annoying. Also if others can just switch off your look, I wouldn't bother (but, gods, please let's not start another 'cosmetics switch' argument).
please let's not start another 'cosmetics switch' argument
I'm not advocating for a wardrobe/glamor type thing. No need to bring that up again
I'm also not proposing that the basic look be all that different on a "foil" version of the item; simply having something that is noticable is sufficient. It could be more vibrant color, small particle effect, reflectivness/shininess, an emblem or icon to the graphic, or a more detailed model. Anyone who sees both should be able to tell that they're the same item, one just looks a little "better."
It also should still be easily distinguishable from other items.
So, it's not about the same item having many different potentially looks (model, skin, etc) that you just have to farm endlessly until you happen to get the one that look right. The foil version is still a fixed look; a similar but enhanced version of the normal item.
To use EQ as an example, think about Golden Efreeti Boots. When you wore them, everybody knew those gold boots just by looking at the model. Now imagine there was also a foil version that were much more reflective. Nobody would mistake them for anything other than GEBs, but they would definitely be cooler cosmetically.
So long as the foil items still look close enough to the originals that you can easily tell, and they keep their looks within their station (no fiery lvl 1 tattered loincloths please) I wouldn't mind it at all. Foil farming gives the big guys something to do, and as long as permacamping is somehow made impossible so harassing casuals isn't an option, the big guys will need something to do!
Allowing players to turn off foil effects like they can turn off cosmetics is a swell compromise to make it work.
On the topic of RNG on items...
Aug 17, 2018 (source)
Question: Are items kinda RNG based? Is there a little leeway of how much damage or something an item would do, in the sense that if you found that crazy awesome sword at max level is it possible that you would find the same crazy max level sword that’s a little bit better than the one you already have, or is it something like all items of a certain type are exactly the same.
Joppa said: "Some people may love that; personally that alone kinda causes me to lose interest a little bit in items."
Aradune said: "Me too"
Joppa said: "When you loot the Flaming Sword of Sovereignty you want to know that you’ve got it, like you’ve got that weapon. Everyone who see’s it knows; that’s the only item that has that much strength on it, that’s the only item that gives that amount of haste or whatever it might be. For the lifetime of that item in kinda carves out that reputation for itself. Even down to the more mundane items, when you have the ability to RNG roll your stats, that alone starts taking things away from that recognizable identifiable approach and so that’s not something that we are going to do."
It's VR's vision that items are going to be identifiable both by look and by stats. So if you see a person with a specific item, you will know exactly what that item is based on how it looks, and you will know the stats are specific to that item. There will be no RNG stats and no RNG visuals on items.
Although Joppa did talk about a potential 'enhancing' system in future expansions that would allow you to 'alter' items, a few moments later in that same video link:
Joppa said: "We’ve had a few internal conversations about potential ways to preserve that identity but then give players a way to potentionally do something with those stats, be it amplify a stat or maybe enchant the item with a proc, something like that. I would even put those into different categories, cause a proc doesn’t change the base identity of the weapon, it just gives it new potential functionality. Actually amplifying a stat or re-rolling a stat or whatever that may be does. So we are approaching that much more carefully but it would likely be something where if we did do that, or move into that eventually, then it would most likely take that item out of circulation, it would become something that was bound to you and that way whenever that item is actually being circulated it’s only being able to be circulated as what it is irrespective of what an individual player might do to personalize it. But I’m mentioning that only as a far away possibility if we were to consider doing something like that."
Aradune said: "It is worth noting Chris for people who may not know this, that the vast majority of items are trade-able. We want a very strong player driven economy. There aren’t world banks, you are going to be rewarded for transporting goods and desired items from one part of the world to the other. So what Chris is talking about is maybe augmenting or something a special item for you but then it’s no longer trade-able. The default is that it is trade-able."
GoofyWarriorGuy said:It's VR's vision that items are going to be identifiable both by look and by stats. So if you see a person with a specific item, you will know exactly what that item is based on how it looks, and you will know the stats are specific to that item. There will be no RNG stats and no RNG visuals on items.
Although Joppa did talk about a potential 'enhancing' system in future expansions that would allow you to 'alter' items, a few moments later in that same video link:
When I hear/read those quotes, I don't think it necessarily rules out the inclusion of minor variations in an item's appearance. It certainly does with regard to stats and function, but in terms of appearance, as long as an item remains visually recognizable as said item, I don't see anything in their response that would preclude a system as is being suggested in this thread.
I think there are some really interesting ideas here, and would go as far as to say that a system like this could go a long way to extending the lifespan of content. Trying to get the item you want is the short term goal, while trying to get the one with the visual enhancement you really like might be a long term goal. The concept of the "foil card" has been around forever for a reason; it works. Cosmetics get lumped in with another term which I won't mention here (two words), but they don't have to be. Keep them in the world organically, and in my opinion, there is a lot of potential for long term player engagement.
We'll be discussing this topic on the Rewind this weekend, with reference to posts in this threat. Tune in if you are interested. Links in the Fan Creations sub-forum.