Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

In One Word - Tell us your thoughts on NEED or GREED

    • 1 posts
    October 20, 2020 3:20 PM PDT

    Coin should be split equally.if its an upgrade you need but once needed the item cannot be sold traded mq can only be destroyed,greed items can be sold traded even a copy of the item that was needed,so if its an upgrade you can only loot it once.

    • 394 posts
    October 21, 2020 5:07 PM PDT

    offtopic: I often were the one cleaning corpses in pugs. And making sure all involved got fair share afterwards, when everybody got lost, was sometimes a pain\time consuming. ... trying to avoid greed.

    • 793 posts
    October 27, 2020 4:21 PM PDT

    Everyone does need, cash = need, gear = need, @rydan your the guy i wouldnt trust, in the end you keep a ton for yourself. Not being serious you would do this, but it happens too much. Why some of us in the older generation never take in pugs to our group, and we band together. We just cant trust the Classic reruns of servers and the mentality of players these days.

    • 36 posts
    October 27, 2020 5:52 PM PDT

    Rydan said:

    offtopic: I often were the one cleaning corpses in pugs. And making sure all involved got fair share afterwards, when everybody got lost, was sometimes a pain\time consuming. ... trying to avoid greed.

    I'm not picking on you personally, but I do think there should be some sort of dumb vs smart grouping switch in the game.  Pugging is almost always a frustrating crapshow because pugs are full of people who aren't invested in the game for one reason or another.  Being invested in a guild or raiding with real life friends puts some of your own skin the game.

    With that said, of course pugs are going to be full of greedy clowns.  They have nothing to lose.

    I think the reason need or greed even exists is due to the devs forcing people to repetitively raid the same areas over and over again for that 1% chance they'll get an item that's worth something to them.  This is the very mechanic that makes players infight amongst each other over need or greed nonsensical topics.

    Gaining an item that will be beneficial to you should never be an issue if you down the NPCs that are supposed to drop that item.  The game should be of the appropriate difficulty so players won't necessarily be able to down the desired NPC and if they do, it's a serious achievement.  After they succeed, the reward should fit the risk for every character on the raid or in the group, not just some of them.

    Every player should be able to loot the downed NPC and extract the loot that the game sees fit to give them. With that said, the game may decide to give you only coin or maybe you get an item that's worth coin, but is worthless to your present character.

    I'd much rather that than having to wait for some buttclown guild member to take 45 minutes to finally get around to divvying up the ranger gear, and then have them tell me that it's going to someone else.


    This post was edited by gamexilor1 at October 27, 2020 5:59 PM PDT
    • 394 posts
    October 27, 2020 7:36 PM PDT

    gamexilor1 said:With that said, of course pugs are going to be full of greedy clowns.  They have nothing to lose.

    Hey, lol, being the one that had the time during pulls to collect money drops has been lucrative at times as some layers are not interested :)

    • 800 posts
    October 31, 2020 5:33 AM PDT

    Just another consideration. I tend to view a need or greed looting system, as a means to prolong the time an item is present within the game.

    If you put some actual weight to the items (in a game where weight matters), looters in the group need to consider if they want to pick up all those rusted swords. There might not be an opportunity to trade out your trash on the next turn. And during your next gaming session you might have items from previous session on you, purely because there was no facility to flip/cash in your loot. In the case the player encounters better loot but his inventory is full or weighs too heavy in current conditions, they might disgard other items that they previously looted. This removes that item from the game and increases the value of items with the same ID that are still present in the economy.

    Without this system, the time that dropped items are 'alive' in the game might decrease. Fewer items will be looted and traded and the leftovers that aren't looted will dissappear after timer is running out. From a global economic standpoint, that is stimulating prices and item values. 

    I understand that people loot items to gear up their alts or out-of-group friends or guildmembers. However, if you don't have that option to stock up and gear up others by channeling your playsession profits, the game is actually stimulating replayability. Alts and other groupmembers will need to invest more time to obtain gear themselves. Which is a good thing, if globally accept as a deliberate choice by VR. Need or greed is a well known ease of life design choice, but it has a lot more impact on the economy. And there for me, lays the highest value. A long lasting realistic economy has a good impact on time vs value in a playsession, this for many years to come and for every player, new or veteran.

    We tend to discuss this topic with our own experiences and benefits as primary benefactor. The plus side of talking about this need/greed-design in a time where a game is still being created, now there is time and the space to keep our mind open and pauze to think more holisticly.  Remove yourself as an element in the need/greed design, rather reconsider the value of different designchoices that could be alternatives to this design and what impact they might have on the game on the long term and on a global scale for 100's of items with the same ID.

     

    • 800 posts
    October 31, 2020 5:43 AM PDT

    marcellosa said:

    Coin should be split equally.if its an upgrade you need but once needed the item cannot be sold traded mq can only be destroyed,greed items can be sold traded even a copy of the item that was needed,so if its an upgrade you can only loot it once.

    I agree that coin should be split equally. Perhaps it can be an automated split coin system when 1 player loots the coin from the body. Hopefully we won't see much coin as dropped loot. As, to me, it doesn't really hold much value. Cash drops do not stimulate the player to do something additionally with that coin, purely based on the coin being looted. Any other none coin drop, just might do that. Players are stimulated to interact with the environment, other players or npc's in order to 'process' their looted items in order to get something more suited to their character. 

    • 73 posts
    November 11, 2020 11:48 AM PST

    There is not a single one word response in this thread.

    That said, I'm not going to do one either. 

    Coin - equal and automated, just like most MMOs.  That said if we're going to have disproportionate repair bills like say WOW has for warriors than even as a healer I wouldn't have a problem if there was a slight automatic weighting to those classes to compensate. It's a ***** being a warrior in most MMOs.

    Need/greed mechanics definitely yes. I have always played need if it's a legitimate upgrade, greed otherwise. Legitimate meaning it is your class' armour type/weapon type of choice. Now for the grey area of what to do with cloth that has better stats for a leather wearer. In this case I've always used the policy to ask if OK to need and if primary clothy says yes then need;  and then if won then always equip straight away. I typically also personally play that if someone is looking for a specifc item that's technically a greed for them but can be really handy, and they ask nicely, I will pass for them. MMORPGs like this game are cooperative enterprises, not selfish enterpises.

    I make these rules very clear in pugs that I make; I drop from pugs that operate otherwise. I enforced ruthlessly in my guilds. I tend to just not play at all with people who use different rules because at the end of the day we all know that justifications for other rules (such as 'I need this because I can sell it and I need the cash) are very thinly veiled, if not completely veil free, justifications for pure selfishness and greed. And I value my time too much to hang around with these people.

    If there's a specific cloth item that's coveted by both clothies and leatheries then I think that should be escalated to VR to correct an itemisation oversight, rather than persist to become a divisive issue which works against buliding the nice supportive community spirit that we all at least say we envisage.

    If there was a mechanic for 'check with primary user type if it's ok to need' then that would good; alternatively make only your class' armour type equipable. these would support people to be more polite and considerate. Ideally they shouldnt be necessary but I've also seen enough responses on previous need/greed threads on these forums that already make me want to avoid playing with some people on here.


    This post was edited by Idrial at November 11, 2020 12:03 PM PST
    • 6 posts
    November 14, 2020 8:21 PM PST

    arazons said:

    NEED before GREED always. (Actual need not perceived, not for selling, not for crafting, not for alts.)

    NEED = The character that is present and that is being played, can wear it and it is an upgrade for them, then it is a need. 

    GREED = Everything else. 

     

    Worked just fine in EQ1. People policed themselves quite well.

     

    This is perfect and if special conditions happen they can be nailed out before doing the group.  Example.  A long time ago in EQ2 during the expansion where most of the NPCs were huge dragons and the zones were floating.  There was a time when super rare drops would occur.  A weapon for each specific class and it was the best for that class in the game and each had a special look to them.  They were SO rare that if you played 8 hours doing zones continually you might possibly see one drop but most likely not.  They were extremely valuable.

    All that info is for one thing.  'A seller's market.'  I used to create groups specifically set for NEED/GREED except for those drops.  They would be random'd and highest wins.  They get to take it and do whatever with it.  Most of the time sell it.  As I added people to the group I would explain very plainly every single time to make sure nobody got the wrong idea.

    • 748 posts
    November 27, 2020 6:16 AM PST

    Need.

    • 748 posts
    November 27, 2020 6:17 AM PST

    Need.

    Playing with said character, need. Not for alts, not for friend, not for wife/gf/bf. Need, its an upgrade, I can use it, it will replace my old worn out said item. Not to sell it, to pawn it, to auction it, but need for your character in your group, that is playing now. 

     

    Greed.

    Meh dont need it, wouldnt mind having it to sell. Could use it for one of my alts, or future new character.  Greed, my wife/gf/bf/mistress could use it. Greed, auction it off, trade it for something i could use. 

    • 432 posts
    November 27, 2020 8:57 AM PST

    Give the option to select the type of loot system employed by the group (a selection between free for all, greed or need before greed). Most group styles are then catered for.

    The only option needing a definition is that of need, my definition is:

      1. Only characters in the group at the time of the drop are eligible for a need roll
      2. Those character must be able to use the item
      3. The item must be a direct upgrade of an item currently in use

    If no characters match this criteria, it becomes a greed item.

    If a single character matches this criteria, they are given the option of taking the item or not. If that character doesnt take it, the loot immediately becomes a greed item.

    If two or more characters match this criteria, they are all given the option of a need roll or decline. If all decline the loot becomes a greed item. If two or more select need, those characters roll for it. If one character selects need, that character automatically gets the item. If no characters select need, it becomes a greed item.

     


    This post was edited by chenzeme at November 27, 2020 8:57 AM PST
    • 3272 posts
    November 27, 2020 9:43 AM PST

    Don't like that system..everyone hits NEED ..whether they do or not.  Its why I refuse to join pugs.   Relevent article or object for relevant class.   That might take a bit of coding,  but it will stop the greedy in their tracks.

     

    Cana

    • 17 posts
    November 27, 2020 6:31 PM PST

    Or random loot per toon. And allow trade of items.

    • 225 posts
    November 28, 2020 4:56 AM PST

    My one word: Optional.

    It needs to be an optional choice to run NEED and GREED rolls instead of having the party leader be master looter and hand out gear, or to round robin some sellable items.

    Depending on loot system, NEED & GREED could be fine a majority of the time if the look isn't BoE. I've fat fingered the NEED button before or hit NEED when I thought it was a different piece of gear and ruined the opportunity for an upgrade for others - unintentionally of course! This also happens to people on purpose, but you can't really avoid these people. These type of people will find a way to make your experience sour; one way or another. Just kick them from the group immediately and move on.

    If dungeons don't have any BoE items - let the players decide. If the leader and someone he's playing with don't want to risk someone running away with the one item they need - master looter. If it's a trusted group of players or even a trusted pug - need and greed (because items are tradeable anyways).

    Coin should be split for sure. 

    • 108 posts
    November 28, 2020 2:53 PM PST

    arazons said:

    NEED before GREED always. (Actual need not perceived, not for selling, not for crafting, not for alts.)

    NEED = The character that is present and that is being played, can wear it and it is an upgrade for them, then it is a need. 

    GREED = Everything else. 

     

    Worked just fine in EQ1. People policed themselves quite well.

     

    Well Said. My thoughts exactly.

    • 60 posts
    December 1, 2020 2:25 PM PST

    NO
    I think in a game where everything is able to be traded, allowing Need/Greed loot system might just turn into EVERYONE NEED because everyone could use it. (upgrade or sell). Either way you look at it each group will have to form it's own rules when you 1st join or create a group. Like only roll if it's an upgrade and if its not an upgrade then free roll for all to sell or devide the profits up after it's been sold. If two people need an item then those two will have to roll on it so adding a loot system to do that is kind of redundant. /roll could be just as good as need/greed. I think Rare drops should pop up on all group members screens though if looted. Or pop up in the combat log for all to see. So ninja looters can get called out if they do infact ninja loot.