Ben "Kilsin" Walters sits down with Michael "Artois" Butler to talk all things Pledges and Rewards for this month's Dev Round Table (DRT)
Is it not possible to simply "buy out" the problematic early rewards? Or at least individual aspects of those early pledges? If not, can you simply put the early pledge purchasers on a specific server to avoid any pay-to-win frustrations with the majority of the playerbase?
No way around it though, those early pledges are an albatross around the neck of this game. And Michael Butler, you're 100% wrong on saying it's a bad idea to take pledge rewards away. You do what is best for the long term health of the game. Just try and find a fair-ish way to do so. You can put a value on something and roll it over into subscription time or other pledge ala cart items. The flip side is to take all those early rewards that give advantages and re-offer them to anyone now at twice the cost of the original via ala cart options or even legacy pledge packages. That way, nobody new can be mad they can't have the item because it is available to them. The biggest issue is having items and perks in game that some players can never get no matter how much time they invest in the game. That can't happen. There are several ways to resolve this monumental problem, hopefully you choose several.
@Mathir hmm I feel like that's a bit hyperbolic.
Even something like the horse can simply be No runspeed and be visual only, and still suffice the pledge right? He was already saying he's not even sure if weight reduction on the bags is in, because that leans towards pay to win. I doubt they are going to allow any large bonuses to make it through.
You said "The biggest issue is having items and perks in game that some players can never get no matter how much time they invest in the game."
That is for Every pledge including those available now, that is the point of them lol.
New players post launch will not have these perks. It is what makes them a bonus for pledging early, you can not get them later, same with the older stuff you are arguing to bring back for fairness, you waited too long you missed out sorry.
Unless you think that all pledge rewards should be available forever to all subscribers?
I absolutely believe every in-game pledge reward should be available to every subscriber from kickstarter through the end of the life cycle of this game. 100%. Now, the price at which people can get those rewards is what should change. Kickstarter got things very cheap. If I want those perks now, I have to pay a higher cost. That's fine. But I can get the items if I really want them. That's how this should be run. It's a win-win for all involved. Early investors get a great deal thanks to their risk. Late investors pay a premium for the same items. Nobody has a permanent advantage over anyone else. I mean, it's unfortunate that this game had to be made via crowdfunding in the first place, all kickstarter pledge-style perks do is negatively impact game balance and/or long term revenue in some form. The best thing that could happen for the long term success of Pantheon is if they get funding and can buy out/refund ALL the pledge packages and launch this thing on an even playing field.
A pledge is a promise. Some people may think it is ok to change or even break promises when it suits, but if a company starts doing that, how can anyone trust them to deliver what they say they are going to?
No, pledges are paramount, no matter how awkward they are to implement. People showed trust in handing over money, that trust must be repaid or re-negotiated so both parties are still happy.
Mathir ... simply put the early pledge purchasers on a specific server to avoid any pay-to-win frustrations with the majority of the playerbase?
So you are saying that the people that put up the money first should be excluded from the majority of the player base? So infact penalise them for getting the game started? Wow!
Mathir If I want those perks now, I have to pay a higher cost.
Again, WOW! Make the early backers pay again for the items they were promised?
Definition of pledge: "commit (a person or organization) by a solemn promise."
Definition of promise: "a declaration or assurance that one will do something or that a particular thing will happen."
Seriously, any company making a pledge must see it through. There are too many people willing and able to renege on their words which is why the world is so messed up in the first place. Thankfully, from the above roundtable, it seems VR will be true to their word.
Mathir The best thing that could happen for the long term success of Pantheon is if they get funding and can buy out/refund ALL the pledge packages and launch this thing on an even playing field.
Actually the best thing that could happen for the long term success of Pantheon is that they do not end up like every other MMO and be in it for every penny they can get from their loyal customers. The best thing that can happen is to show the world that a company can be customer focused in this cut-throat world. The best thing that can happen is to show that the customer is actually the most important asset the company has. Trust between the company and the customer will ensure longevity over quick wins.
I am so so so tired of hearing about pledges. 5 years later and we have seen parts of 2 classes and we are still getting hour long "roundtables" about pledges. zzzzzzz. I am also super tired of hearing about the shaman and the dire lord. jfc guys. it seems like you are doing everything you can to make casual observers lose interest in this game. Stop worrying about dumb stuff like wether or not some players have a fancy bag at release (which we totally deserve after waiting this long, if you take away our perks that you sold us years ago you will never have the trust of any of your backers.) and actually get to a point where there is a game to play first. i'm immeasurabley disapointed in VR right now, and i've gotten to a point where I am tired of waiting, tired of being asked for money and tired of being told 'you'll see'. The lack on updates, the lack of content, the lack of funding... we've all seen this before. I've been supportive of this game from kickstarter but by god am i getting to the end up my patience with this ****. The pledges should sell themselves by offering good value/reward. you shouldn't need to beg for an hour. still asking people for 1000 bucks to be part of pre-alpha at this point is so so dirty.
if you guys would just SHOW US SOMETHING REMOTELY COOL OR INTERESTING, demonstrate anything remotely resembling a fun, polished experience, you wouldnt have to beg like that.
antonius said:it is up again. it was up before but filled with negative comments so they took it down and reloaded it with no comments. dissent will not be tolerated.
HAHAHAHAHA...can't deal with negative comments. Wait till the floodgates of people for Alpha shows up. CS team is going to be running 24/7 deleting threads.
Vandraad said:antonius said:it is up again. it was up before but filled with negative comments so they took it down and reloaded it with no comments. dissent will not be tolerated.
HAHAHAHAHA...can't deal with negative comments. Wait till the floodgates of people for Alpha shows up. CS team is going to be running 24/7 deleting threads.
@ Vandraad I totally agree with you here.
A lot of people here lack any skills of discernment and they refuse to tell the difference between a person giving honest criticism and people that are just trolling.
Wait until Alpha opens up. If it ever opens up.
Negative comments are expected and can move a project in a good way as long as they are backed up with a reasonable argument. Scrapping pledges is not reasonable and the proposed solutions that have been suggested in this thread all penalise the people who helped get this project up off the ground.
