Would you prefer to have new factions and new mobs and bosses with each expansion?
Short example: You have the Bloodorc tribe with their Boss Bob. At 50 you kill Bob and his tribe. In the upcoming content new Tribes or societies emerge, but not related to Bob or his orcs.
Or...would you prefer to see factions make their return in new content, as a way of overarching storylines.
Short example: You have killed Boss Bob at 50. New content however involves uprising Warbands of Bloodorcs that break off and try to claim their legacy etc. There is still a window for new societies and factions, but you still encounter an old foe/faction from the early days. For example, because they were defeated by players at 50, the tribe has grown and adapted and is there to challenge you once more in similar or different ways.
Personally, I'd enjoy the idea of having this living world of factions that don't just dissappear after 1 zone/tier. Undead Bloodorcs..just don't do the trick either.
What's your take on this?
Should there be ongoing storylines or are you happy with new foes with the climactic moment of defeating each new Boss?
On a side note: Is there such a thing as 'far-fetched' storylines, as you see in those novels on tv (where everyone has slept with everyone at least once and as a consequence have all kinds of offspring everywhere or where key characters have died/vanished and made their return multiple times over...) Or are you just fine with it as long as it pushes the main storyline forward?
OP: The answer, as you anticipate, relates to how 'far-fetched', convoluted and/or contrived the storyline/lore to the expansion gets.
Sometimes it's great to have a 'popular' villain develop into something further or greater and sometimes it's a horrible cludge just to capitalise (literally) on the success of that villain.
Personally, I think the answer is "both". I hope Pantheon expansions will always involve 'variety', or at least the same level of variety as the original game. That includes level range, type of encounters and, yes, some new villains, but no reason to avoid the 'old', if done well.
Barin999 said:What's your take on this?
I'd rather not see factions we meet early on just vanish. Not all of them anyway. Sure, there can be a faction which has a small population limited to a single area on Terminus. But other factions should be much more widespread.
It really comes down to how VR will expand upon the world. VR has spoken at length about wanting to avoid the pattern of expansion always going outwards getting ever further away from the 'old world', so to speak, ala Kunark then Velious. Instead, we should be finding new areas amongst the areas we already know. This, I believe, allows for a much more natural inclusion of older factions within new content. A new zone full of those Orcs you mentioned appearing next to an already existing area of those same Orcs would make sense. Finding those same orcs with the same faction on a wholly new continent doesn't make much sense.
Barin999 said:Personally, I'd enjoy the idea of having this living world of factions that don't just dissappear after 1 zone/tier. Undead Bloodorcs..just don't do the trick either.
What's your take on this?
From my perspective, a living world of factions, where they all matter, would be ideal. Yet, I'm realistic enough to understand there's no resources to complete such an endeavor with the current team.
Having an origin zone, origin story, complete overarching world-affecting story-line, faction quests, faction NPCs, unique harvesting/crafting/diplomacy/other game loops for each humanoid faction would be .. well, that would be awesome, but not within scope, for this team.
My current expectation for launch-day-pantheon is all members of a faction will dynamically, instantly and omnisciently know my standing with them, and some will only go from bad to worse, while others will only ever improve. Not the greatest, but not the worst system, either.
I'd like a mix, but it really depends on which (if any) world areas are added in an expansion and the lore behind them.
For example, if we're getting an entirely new continent, then it makes sense there might be a few "undiscovered" factions there.
On the other hand, if the expansion is just increasing areas in the "known" continents, then what we might see is existing factions being explore more deeply.
vjek said:Having an origin zone, origin story, complete overarching world-affecting story-line, faction quests, faction NPCs, unique harvesting/crafting/diplomacy/other game loops for each humanoid faction would be .. well, that would be awesome, but not within scope, for this team.
Good sidebar. I was always kind of under the assumption that while we may not have unique home city area and individual story arcs for every race, that most or at least some would have their own home city with maybe some of them sharing a city. And that we would at least have some sort of polarized or good/evil faction story arc.
Perhaps I am wrong in that though. I guess I kind of always sort of based that on old school EQ races having their own cities, what old school tenants Pantheon does have, and assumptions based on the race descriptions / lore and the good vs evil theme the races seem to fall into.
arazons said:vjek said:Having an origin zone, origin story, complete overarching world-affecting story-line, faction quests, faction NPCs, unique harvesting/crafting/diplomacy/other game loops for each humanoid faction would be .. well, that would be awesome, but not within scope, for this team.
Good sidebar. I was always kind of under the assumption that while we may not have unique home city area and individual story arcs for every race, that most or at least some would have their own home city with maybe some of them sharing a city. And that we would at least have some sort of polarized or good/evil faction story arc.
Perhaps I am wrong in that though. I guess I kind of always sort of based that on old school EQ races having their own cities, what old school tenants Pantheon does have, and assumptions based on the race descriptions / lore and the good vs evil theme the races seem to fall into.
Well, giving any given faction a home city and back story isn't so difficult as plopping the NPCs down in one spot around a few buildings and adding some flavor text to their interactions and emotes. And that's probably enough for Bandit Faction A, but I also wouldn't expect Bandit Faction A to be something I encounter through all 50 levels of Pantheon.. at some point it will probably be Bandit Faction B, C, etc.
I would settle for at least the player factions having well thought out and in-depth socio-cultural-political developments, and capitol cities with settlements, but for NPC factions, meh.
No particular opinion.
The one thing I really dislike in some other MMOs is when the developers make public enemy number one into a neutral or even friendly entity just to simplify their lives. It can be done with a particularly good rationale but it is jarring to spend 50 levels fighting, fearing and hating "Fred" and suddenly Fred is the ally against Sally from levels 50-60.
This isn't so jarring for the character that already got to 50 as it is for any new characters that have to spend months fighting Fred and his minions while the player knows that Fred is just a ...misunderstood ... good guy and Sally is the real enemy. At least until the next expansion when maybe Fred and Sally help the players against Wilma.
((I would settle for at least the player factions having well thought out and in-depth socio-cultural-political developments, and capitol cities with settlements, but for NPC factions, meh.))
My own preference is the opposite. Players will do what they want to do and the developers cannot totally control this. For a world to feel real to me I want the NPCs of all types (friends, neutrals, enemies) to have reasons for what they do and to act more or less consistantly with same. Not to *obviously* be placed somewhere for story reasons with no rationale whatever. Crossing a desert, for example, I find it enormously jarring to find a population or orcs thousands of miles removed from their closest kin, with no explanation, and in far greater numbers than the terrain could conceivably support. Just to give the player something to fight.
Nephele said:For example, if we're getting an entirely new continent, then it makes sense there might be a few "undiscovered" factions there.
On the other hand, if the expansion is just increasing areas in the "known" continents, then what we might see is existing factions being explore more deeply.
If 'we're getting' new continents... why should we be the first to discover/explore it?
It's within reason to have some new factions appear. Sure. But it's also within reason that the familiar faces show interest for the "new" continents. Why should they stay behind on the old stuff?
Chogar said:Not just villains, but how about the new starting areas? Why do they have to be a new faction all the time? If a new continent is discovered and you already have faction with the Gnome exploration Academy...
Are you hinting towards revamping an older starting area? Or actually opening up areas that were blocked out earlier?
Barin999 said:Nephele said:For example, if we're getting an entirely new continent, then it makes sense there might be a few "undiscovered" factions there.
On the other hand, if the expansion is just increasing areas in the "known" continents, then what we might see is existing factions being explore more deeply.
If 'we're getting' new continents... why should we be the first to discover/explore it?
It's within reason to have some new factions appear. Sure. But it's also within reason that the familiar faces show interest for the "new" continents. Why should they stay behind on the old stuff?
You are reading too much into my comment above. There's no reason you couldn't have crossover in new areas as well.
Nephele said:You are reading too much into my comment above. There's no reason you couldn't have crossover in new areas as well.
No shots were meant to be fired here.
How would a world and its inhabitants react to the coming of a new continent or faction? Would they try to convince the newcomer to join ranks with one or the other?
Or would we prefer to have a clear cut with each new patch of content presented to us?
Barin999 said:How would a world and its inhabitants react to the coming of a new continent or faction? Would they try to convince the newcomer to join ranks with one or the other?
Or would we prefer to have a clear cut with each new patch of content presented to us?
The answer is: It depends :)
Are the newcomers peaceful traders? Aggressive colonists? Invading conquerors? Something else?
There's not a one-size-fits-all answer. Instead, it's "what makes sense based on the story and lore of these groups, and this new area?"
Barin999 said:Chogar said:Not just villains, but how about the new starting areas? Why do they have to be a new faction all the time? If a new continent is discovered and you already have faction with the Gnome exploration Academy...
Are you hinting towards revamping an older starting area? Or actually opening up areas that were blocked out earlier?
What I meant to say (and failed horribly), when a new expansion is released there are often times "safe" spaces to start your adventure in. Like in Kunark with the "good & evil" cities with shops and guards. Often times these locations are made of people from the old content (aka: not native to the new area). However, even though the NPC's are from the old content, they have a new faction.
While I am sure people would be upset because they slaughtered everybody connected with the "Ogre Mercenary" faction and the new expansion has them as the guards of the new area...
eunichron said:arazons said:vjek said:Having an origin zone, origin story, complete overarching world-affecting story-line, faction quests, faction NPCs, unique harvesting/crafting/diplomacy/other game loops for each humanoid faction would be .. well, that would be awesome, but not within scope, for this team.
Good sidebar. I was always kind of under the assumption that while we may not have unique home city area and individual story arcs for every race, that most or at least some would have their own home city with maybe some of them sharing a city. And that we would at least have some sort of polarized or good/evil faction story arc.
Perhaps I am wrong in that though. I guess I kind of always sort of based that on old school EQ races having their own cities, what old school tenants Pantheon does have, and assumptions based on the race descriptions / lore and the good vs evil theme the races seem to fall into.
Well, giving any given faction a home city and back story isn't so difficult as plopping the NPCs down in one spot around a few buildings and adding some flavor text to their interactions and emotes. And that's probably enough for Bandit Faction A, but I also wouldn't expect Bandit Faction A to be something I encounter through all 50 levels of Pantheon.. at some point it will probably be Bandit Faction B, C, etc.
I would settle for at least the player factions having well thought out and in-depth socio-cultural-political developments, and capitol cities with settlements, but for NPC factions, meh.
Sorry, I didnt clearly specifiy this... I meant for playable races only, not every other race.
I'd say both. New factions make sense especially when they come with new lands. Familiar combatants give charisma characters(enchanters) more valuable things to do for themselves and their friends.