I've never played any table top RPG's, but I've seen a couple of videos of others playing.
After watching those videos, I’m wondering if the perception system is simply an attempt to implement an automated version of the narration that a DM generally provides in a tabletop setting. Am I missing something or is there more to it than that?
That's not a bad analogy. It represents the perception of the player, which is pretty much what a DM would do when describing a scene in D&D. He would tailor what he describes according to what the players' characters are.
In Pantheon, an skilled/experienced Keeper might gain a more descriptive and insightful ping than another character, especially if they are already 'following' that perception line of lore.
In D&D the dungeon master would perhaps give hints about trap doors if there were a theif that made a check or about secret doors if an elf was looking. They might make various dice rolls against the party's innate skills and abilities in order to decide how much info to give out.
In Pantheon there may well be passive and active skills for detecting magic or traps or whatever, and active skills too, but the perception/keeping thing seems almost like some kind of developed sense of intuition. Almost mystical/magical.
In D&D things were a lot more sophisticated than Pantheon is likely to be with a live DM running the game. Obviously.
This may be more like Wizardry 1 (and many other computer games) where if there is a secret door you may get a dice roll to see if you detect it. Or you may not even get that opportunity depending on your race and attributes. If you make a deliberate attempt to detect it the dice roll (if allowed) requires a lower number so the chances of detection are better.
Honestly, I feel that the whole system of perception will be a way to reward players who will take the time to review their surroundings and look to complete the narrative rather than simply gung-ho rush through quests.
I believe there was a video on the perception system as a whole which showed an inital window into how this could action, where it showed the several plausible endings to a quest should an individual fail/suceed at locating all the individual nodse of interest.
It may well be that there will be skills for certain classes/archetypes that could highlight elements in the terrain as a result of a passive ability, but I have an inkling that the majority of these nodes of interest will be hidden as things for the intuitive player to source, locate and utiise for their own benefit.
RiskIBiski said:Honestly, I feel that the whole system of perception will be a way to reward players who will take the time to review their surroundings and look to complete the narrative rather than simply gung-ho rush through quests.
I believe there was a video on the perception system as a whole which showed an inital window into how this could action, where it showed the several plausible endings to a quest should an individual fail/suceed at locating all the individual nodse of interest.
Well, in the Storyline Mechanics video released on May 30th, Joppa said that they had decided some time ago to decouple the perception system from quests as well as rewards and that the perception system would also not gate anyone out of content, progression, or gear.
The weird thing is, in the same video, he said that the manner in which a player navigates the perception system could affect ones faction.
That begs the question.... How can the perception system effect ones faction and not have any effect on faction specific quests and gear?
((That begs the question.... How can the perception system effect ones faction and not have any effect on faction specific quests and gear? ))
In numberless ways if VR so chooses. It may help you find items or NPCs that in some way give you a chance to raise faction. It may give you more details on what things raise faction and what lower it.
Killing that wolf sneaking towards a villager's sheep may give faction. Noticing the worn collar and safely returning the farmer's sheepdog may give better faction.
dorotea said:((That begs the question.... How can the perception system effect ones faction and not have any effect on faction specific quests and gear? ))
In numberless ways if VR so chooses. It may help you find items or NPCs that in some way give you a chance to raise faction. It may give you more details on what things raise faction and what lower it.
Killing that wolf sneaking towards a villager's sheep may give faction. Noticing the worn collar and safely returning the farmer's sheepdog may give better faction.
I don't know if there is a problem with the way I worded that, but what I am trying to convey is that Joppa was saying the following two things that seem to be in direct conflict with each another:
- The perception system will not gate content/quests/gear/progression/rewards.
- The perception system will in some instances affect ones faction.
If any particular content/quest/gear/reward in Pantheon happens to only be accessible through a specific NPC with a specific faction and your actions in the perception system happen to have shifted that faction to the point where that NPC will no longer give you access to one or more of those things, then you have been gated from those things until such a time as you meet the faction requirement. This is in direct opposition to, "The perception system will not gate content/quests/gear/progression/rewards".
Nekentros said:I don't know if there is a problem with the way I worded that, but what I am trying to convey is that Joppa was saying the following two things that seem to be in direct conflict with each another:
- The perception system will not gate content/quests/gear/progression/rewards.
- The perception system will in some instances affect ones faction.
I don't think these two things are necessarily at odds with eachother. It is entirely possible that the perception system is just another way of affecting your faction, but not the only way. If this were to be the case, then it would just be another path to a destination that another player might reach in a different way.
Meatlumps said:I don't think these two things are necessarily at odds with eachother. It is entirely possible that the perception system is just another way of affecting your faction, but not the only way. If this were to be the case, then it would just be another path to a destination that another player might reach in a different way.
I'm not sure why you got the impression I was saying the perception system was the only way to affect faction. Are you guys gaslighting me, because it sure is starting to feel like it? lol.
Usually when they say something like "The perception system will not gate content/quests/gear/progression/rewards" they really are meaning "You will not be REQUIRED to use the perception system in order to get access to content, quest, gear, progression, rewards."
You need to remember that the Perception system is first and foremost a 'story telling tool' to add depth and immersion to the Lore of the world. This should not be confused with the overall Quest system in the game. Story lines (ie Quests) that are triggered by Perception are meant to help you experience the world rather than being the primary system for gaining Items or Attunement as rewards. There will still be Traditional Quests not tied to Perception that are used for those things.
Dec 9, 2016 Joppa explained: (source) "It’s very important that players are able to pickup the perception system at any point in time. So in other words, you should be able to start a character and level all the way up to level 50 without doing a single piece of perception related content. Then decide at level 50 ‘you know what I want to give this a try’ and you go and become a Keeper and ALL of the perception content is available to you in an organic way. We have some ideas on how to make that happen pretty seamlessly and elegantly and you can be sure that’s a non-negotional part of the system design.”
March 18, 2018: They were showing off the Perception system to Cohh and at one point they used it to obtain a Key. When they got to the door that used that Key... Joppa said: (source) “Not a great example, because we don’t want for the perception system to work as a hard lock. Were this more of a flavor area where you are going to run into some NPCs you can maybe interact with and learn some stuff about this dungeon, I absolutely think that would be part of what we could see. But something like: you need a Keeper to find a key to actually progress to the deepest content in the dungeon; probably not gonna see that. That’s why I said earlier it’s more of a proof of concept right now.”
So he wanted to make sure we knew that this was just to show off the system and what it could do rather than to suggest that areas could be locked off from players unless they were using the Perception system.
@Nekentros
Now you suppose a Hypothetical where your faction with a group is changed because of your interaction within a Perception story line, which in turn effects which Quests and potential rewards available to you now that your Faction is changed. We do not know that Story lines connected with Perception will actually effect your Faction with a group, but instead may just effect future perception triggers from occuring or not occurring depending on the actions you take or do not take along those Perception story lines.
It's likely that any actions you take along a story line that might effect your Factions are actions that ANY player could choose to make even if they choose NOT to participate in the perception system. So it wouldn't be the Perception system actually causing the Faction change, but rather actions that you choose to do because of information you gained through a Perception trigger. But you wouldn't REQUIRE the perception trigger in order to choose to take that action.
For example: A Perception trigger may encourage you to go investigate an Ogre encampment in order to learn more about some Ogre related story line. You then in the process of your investigation get caught snooping around the encampment and end up in a battle with some Ogre's and then you lose some Ogre city faction. The Perception system may have led you to that encampment, but any other player could have come across it and got caught up in the same fight and lost the same faction even if they never were led there by a Perception trigger. Also, the Perception trigger never required you to get into that fight, but rather just to investigate. If you had avoided the fight, you never would have gotten the Faction hit and you still could have continued on with the Perception story line.
If you want to learn a lot more information about what has been said regarding the Perception system in the past, you may want to check out the post I made about this time of year back in 2018 with all the links to videos we had back at that time: Perception System: What we know so far.
Cheers mate