Flossie said:I'll keep this short. I was very young when I started playing EQ and MMOs in general, I was 12. By 16 I was a master of min/max and raiding in a #1 WW guild. The hardest thing for me was finding the time to play when I also had to make time for my girlfriend, other social activities, school, and tons of homework. That being said, I made it work. I stayed up late at night to finish of a flag quest for access, I woke up early with a cup of coffee to get in some more exp before school, I took care of my other responsibilities outside of my raid time, etc.. It's all about making time for the things you want. When you're a truly competitive player, you'll make time for the game to give you a little edge. If you don't, then the people who do should be farther along than you. That's just how it is in life. When you invest more time and energy into something, you will yield greater results. I'm 31 now and my stance on this hasn't changed. I intend to make time for Pantheon just as I did when I was younger. If someone does this to a greater extent than I do, than they deserve to be farther along than me.
Very well said, but unfortunaltely, the 'instant gratification' brigade don't agree, and they're willing to pay to get ahead!
I hate how the suits broke the industry I loved so much! (yes, the past tense was intentional)
philo said:Leveling in early EQ was like the tutorial. The game didnt really start until you were max level and raiding everyday with a guild (from Kunark and beyond at least).
I don't think this could be further fron the truth. One of the great things about EQ was that the game started at level 1. You were dropped into a world without any kind of tutorial and the game began.
tehtawd said:Hey forums, long time no see.
I've had big changes but something that has not changed is how I feel about classic MMORPGs...
In all honesty this thread kind of intimidates me. I feel because I liked any iteration of WoW I could be targeted as 'not the right audience' and expelled. The type of people who like this game, and the type of people on this forum have said quite negatively charged things to one another.
...
*hugs*
-Todd
Nice to see you back, Todd!
Please don't worry about the 'intimidating' stuff that goes on. For one thing, it's mostly just because folks are so passionate about the genre and the potential of Pantheon and, for another, the Pantheon devs themselves are very inclusive of all backgrounds (Joppa is often referencing WoW and Zelda and other influences) and seem to value everyone's opinions and know exactly how much to draw influence from the variety of games and players there are out there.
Sure, it is (thankfully) looking like being heavily influenced by early EQ and Vanguard, but there is a lot of experience and love for other games and players that will be folded in to improve things, because, yes, EQ and VG were far from perfect!
There is some negativity, true. Just ignore those folks and bring your good vibes ;^)
Kalok said:I, actually, have more time than I did in 1999 when I was playing EQ. I was 32 at the time and a single parent, yes, I'm male, and still "rising" in my career. I am now almost 53 and fairly stable in my career. The only path I have left to take is a management path, which I'm not particularly interested in. Both of my kids are grown and moved out at this point in my life.
I am well aware that I am, most likely, in the extreme minority however.
I'm not so sure ;^) Sounds pretty familiar to me (and my gaming friends).
All I really care about is experiencing the full exent of the released game before the first expansion. If someone can only play 10 hours a week...they should be content that they won't see the whole game in time before the first expansion. I kind of wish a game was hard, and long, enough that even end game min/maxers are like...yeah I can't no life that long...I might die. Soloing would be more for crafting...exploring... selling your goods..etc. If WoW got one thing right....it's how they can extend some expansions for a long time. If the grind is long enough and the raids are plentyful and hard. You can probably do your first expansion in 2 years. 2 years should be plenty of time to reach one character maxed level with some end game experience even for the very casual.
I was 19 when I started playing EQ in 1999 and with a full credit semester for college was still playing Tons and tons of hours that I would in no way be able to match today lol. I'll play my 3-4 hours after work and more on weekends now and be fine with that.
I think it is an important disctinction between the 2hour play session goals and Level curve. These are not the same thing and the shorter play session idea does not have to mean that progress is too fast. I hope they don't make leveling / char development too fast because That is what brings a sense of accomplishment.
They've spoken of safe camp out spots in streams as one example. You can have a difficult, time consuming zone that can still be played in 2-3 hour sessions at a whack, log out at the safe spot and try for the next boss / door tomorrow.
What I do not want to see are the 2 hour play sessions turning in to "I will gain an item, kill a boss, gain a level, or complete a quest Every time I play because everything is tuned for 2 hours". That would go against the tenets of the game and everything I'm looking for.
No matter what there will be 12 hour a day players that will burn the level curve and content down. Reducing level curve or balancing around the 2hour play session too far only means that you will be further behind sooner (as they get through it in days, but who cares) and more importantly that You as a slower player will lose out on the feeling of trudging through a difficult world and earning your progression.
I say keep the level curve as slow as they are willing to in order to make it feel closer to EQ vanilla and benefit normal players exp in the world, make it last longer in each zone, make each item feel important. Let the min maxxers with tons of time burn through to 50, it will happen any way you slice it. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
GeneralReb said:I was 19 when I started playing EQ in 1999 and with a full credit semester for college was still playing Tons and tons of hours that I would in no way be able to match today lol. I'll play my 3-4 hours after work and more on weekends now and be fine with that.
I think it is an important disctinction between the 2hour play session goals and Level curve. These are not the same thing and the shorter play session idea does not have to mean that progress is too fast. I hope they don't make leveling / char development too fast because That is what brings a sense of accomplishment.
They've spoken of safe camp out spots in streams as one example. You can have a difficult, time consuming zone that can still be played in 2-3 hour sessions at a whack, log out at the safe spot and try for the next boss / door tomorrow.
What I do not want to see are the 2 hour play sessions turning in to "I will gain an item, kill a boss, gain a level, or complete a quest Every time I play because everything is tuned for 2 hours". That would go against the tenets of the game and everything I'm looking for.
No matter what there will be 12 hour a day players that will burn the level curve and content down. Reducing level curve or balancing around the 2hour play session too far only means that you will be further behind sooner (as they get through it in days, but who cares) and more importantly that You as a slower player will lose out on the feeling of trudging through a difficult world and earning your progression.
I say keep the level curve as slow as they are willing to in order to make it feel closer to EQ vanilla and benefit normal players exp in the world, make it last longer in each zone, make each item feel important. Let the min maxxers with tons of time burn through to 50, it will happen any way you slice it. Don't ruin it for the rest of us.
I boldened parts of this statement for emphasis. This is very well said and I think it's something that's commonly overlooked or misinterpreted. We as players should understand that a particular 2 hour session may just involve travel time and setup, but that is still progress and it just as much part of the process.
I was 16 when I started EQ in 1999, age 37 now. I do not want the "casual" experience. I am not interested in having things watered down because I have a busy life. There is a reason I don't bother sticking around in the newer MMOs, they bore me because they are too solo focused and far too easy. I don't want P2W cash shop nonsense and I don't want a bunch of stupid looking non lore cosmetics either. Philo made a statement I vehemently disagree with, I never even hit max level in EverQuest and I loved it. WoW people made that same claim, disagreed then too. That raid or die mentality belongs in the past, it's dead. TBH it was never alive in the first place, it has always been a small minority of players who did the end game raiding in MMOs. Take your pick and you'll see from what stats are available that raiding has never been popular in any MMO. I did end game raiding in WoW for BC and Wrath. I did do some raiding in EQ too but not endgame bleeding edge stuff. But from what I have experienced the best of MMORPGs is the leveling experience. Max level it was group content that I enjoyed the most followed by PvP. That doesn't mean I didn't enjoy raiding, I did. I'm not saying eliminate raiding, I just don't want it as the main focus of the game. The biggest mistake made for both EQ and WoW was focusing too heavily on raiding. And of course there were plenty of other MMORPGs that put too much emphasis on raiding as well. Pantheon has claimed to be a group focused game that still has raid content, hopefully they stick to their guns on that.
No-lifed UO back in my early 20s. First char was born the day the game came out. Played until EQ was released. Had all the best gear and a great house. Quit.
I no-lifed in EQ back in my mid 20s. First main was born the day the game came out. Played through Kunark. Beat every raid target through that time. Had all the best gear. Quit.
Moved in with my brother in 2001. He wanted to play so we started over again. We no-lifed it together through POP. Level'd up new toons, beat every raid target including Quarm. Had all the best gear. Quit.
Played Vanguard in my early 30s. First main was born the day the game came out. Waited forever for them to get raid content up. Beat it. Had all the best gear. Quit.
Done well with my life, managed to retire at 44 a few years ago. Ready to no-life pantheon with a passion, get all the best gear, and quit. :/
I was almost 32 when I was in EQ Beta. I wasn't married so was able to juggle going to school (MBA), working a job (lots of field work), going drinking with the buds, playing ball, and cramming in play time - sacrificng sleep a whole hell of a lot. And even at that I was what would be called a casual player, despite my addiction to the game. After Velious came out and I quit EQ I still had only mustered level 52 (on two different characters).
Friends left for DAoC and all of us having suffered the EQ addiction we kicked our habit and were a bunch of casual players. We would meet up for one 2 - 3 hour play session every Friday night to run through the battlegrounds (ran all three realms through the three levels of the battlegrounds - then quit). And in between maybe another 2 - 3 hours per week just on our own to level up.
We moved on to WoW and did the same thing - but this time due to some of us now having families we moved to 6:00am saturday mornings (lots of bad drinking the night before and I'm surprised I was able to play those sessions). And always just casually. One major play session that was generally 3 hours but might stretch to 4 - doing some sort of dungeon or some other. And in between, perhaps another 4 hours. We quit after the Lich King expansion.
Now I am married, have a couple of kids, am the sole breadwinner, still enjoy playing on a couple of teams (one in the winter and one in the summer) and I can emphatucally state that I do not have the time that I did when I was younger. But I am still clamouring for a game that is more similar to EQ than is similar to WoW. DAoC was fun in its own right, but I'm not into that, at the moment. I feel I can negotiate my way to one play session per week of 3 - 4 hours. And scramble for another couple of hours in between. One hundred percent I am a casual. One hundred percent looking for a game that would be comparable to EQ of 1999. And one hundred percent committed to paying a subscription each and every month and not expecting anything other than a great time when I play the game. That's it.
I don't need to min/max. I don't need to get anywhere first or fast. I just want to play and experience whatever it is that grabs my attention or drives me forward when the game is released - social aspect, stinging death, perhaps something on the side like lore or crafting, some exploring, and lots of fighting - and meeting friends who want to play and have a good time (socializing while playing will do that for me). The secret to longevity for Pantheon is a game that will keep subscribers. I hope I am one of those subscribers. Paying exactly the same amount as everyone else every month regardless of the time put into playing the game. I don't need anyone to tell me whether the game is for me or not. I can make that decision on my own and my subscription dollars will be proof positive of that.
I was in my late 20's when my life long friend got me hooked on EQ. So I was no child. SK for the win! Sorry was going down a rabit trail for a second there..
I want a slower pace game like we had back when EQ came out. I'm now the farther and I want to play Pantheon with my two boys while they are young and live at home with me and their mother. Share with them the joy I got as a young man playing EQ and making memories with my boys.
I love the slow pace games of yesterday that had " lore" that was relevant.
I think Panthe is going to offer so much to so many.. VR just needs to standfast to the goals they set for Pantheon. I'm not an extreme crafter, but while my boys are in school I'll be crafting while I wait for them to get home. When they get home. It is time to kick the tires and light the fires. I'm going to have a blast playing Pantheon with my boys. Got my wife talked into it too. It'll be her first MMORPG ever.
So the point I'm was trying to make. I don't see this game not offering enough to do and always being fun. Because of the social part of Pantheon. People will be required to talk and group. Talking to a fellower gamer from say South America and making friends with that person than going out on an adventure grinding out XP while we shoot the breeze.
This is my mindset. I'm chilling. However it is inevitable Pantheon is going to get people that don't chill and want to rush through the levels and scream they have nothing to do when they hit max level. We did to try and befriend these people and take them under our wings. Show them how much fun the game really is. When they slow down and look at it through a new set of eyes. Some of them just will not get it. That is okay. Let them fly the nest in search of what they like. But the ones that we are able to befriend and 20 years later they'll be in the same boat as me and a lot of you are in now. Reminiscing about memories the had back in the day with you while playing Pantheon. That is pricelss and what it is all about.. Sure the new gear was great. The gear isn't forever. Making frinds with like minded people that last a life time.
niccoli00 said:I'll likely IRL hit level 50 by the time the game is out, I have never been a worlds first kind of player. Sure, it was cool to see people do it, good for them. I just like to enjoy the game as it goes.
I remember just wandering the world of EQ, so many fond memories from that game that no other has really provided. Memorable and distinct memories. Likely this is due to it being the first MMO I truly got into and enjoyed thouroughly. There was UO before it but that was never really something I felt truly immersed in.I keep hoping for the next great MMO love of my life, and maybe it will be Patheon, but not in the same way EQ was. Pantheon will be great for it's own reasons, but after the many years and many MMOs/games I have realized that the "first time" doesn't really happen again.
Everything you have said applies to me as well. Dinging 50 next year, hope to be in an alpha by then.
But just on the OP's comments, we may have been in our 20's (or younger) when playing EQ, but don't forget there would have been people older then us playing as well. They would be in the same boat as we are now, but back then.
2-3 hours per night id lucky these days and maybe 4-5 in the weekends, depending on daughters requirements, but I am thinking by the time of release she will be old enough to play. She wasn't even around when I pledged :)
There could probably be a thousand reasons why people's situations have changed over twenty years. I would be more surprised if I found out the bulk of people's situations have not changed... that said, I know my views on this probably differ with a lot of people..
Me personally I played in my mid 20's to start, and still play from time to time. But those days of 12 hour groups and all nighters are just not going to happen anymore. I can must about 3 to 4 hours on a Friday night, but other than that... I only have time for about an hour or two during the week. A few reasons for that? Getting older I cannot sit as long as I used to... marital obligations... expectations from spouse has changed in general... family expectations have been set to today's gaming standards where it is much easier to get in and out... simply have developed more than one hobby as life has gone on... as life went on more expectations from job as I climbed those ranks... maybe whatever situation we were looking to escape from no longer exists... involvement with kids/grand kids/nieces/nephews...
I'm not trying to be world first... and I know there are things in the game that I may never see... and I am OK with that. But I will say there needs to be things to do if you only have shorter playtimes within the game. Something that gives people a reason to log in during the week when the only time they can really do an exp group is on the weekend. And honestly ... if doing everything requires a four hour commitment... people will eventually move along if it is a community they feel they are not a part of. I know the impulse is to say good riddance, but you need a diverse community to keep the game afloat. If games could survive just with hardcores, you wouldn't have seen most of the ones that tried to be hardcore either change or get shut down. Now, before you start your reply yet, what I mean is if it is possible to farm low level pelts, ore or bone chips... if I can log in and kill some light blues trying to get a high quality pelt or two to drop while the wife gets ready for dinner... that's all I am talking about. I am NOT asking them to make it so I can level solo at a comparable pace to people who group.
Like... in old EQ I did not have all the keys and all the raid stuff... but I did have one that I decided I was going to get and continued plugging away at it... including solo farming back when farming it was kinda difficult for some classes that could not kite. I eventually got that key and max level ... and considered it enough of a reward.
But what I will argue is that the amount of time spent should be the sole definition of what is difficult. And what I mean is, if pushing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 for five minutes and dinging a level is considered easy mode... pushing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 for 5 hours to ding that same level should not suddenly be the definition of hard. I am fine with leveling being a time consuming event and there are no quick pathways... but can we stop acting like time spent is a skill? Seriously... when talking about easy buttons... it always ends up being a discussion of time spent.
What made EQ hard to me... was that if you were a level 1 (not twinked) and you walked up to a level 2, there was a real chance you were going to die in that fight. Now it seems like you see groups fighting nothing but red cons and they start moving on when mobs turn white or dark blue... That was what made it hard... there was a legitimate chance on any pull that something could go wrong, you wipe, and the last hour of fighting was wiped out. It was harder to find camps that were open... find mobs that you could level on... find a group of good people who socialized more than to just talk about how this class compares to their main... and all of this made the game rewarding when you found that group of people... who were enjoying those same parts of the game you were... and together you accomplish things that you could never have done alone.
Watemper said:If WoW got one thing right....it's how they can extend some expansions for a long time. If the grind is long enough and the raids are plentyful and hard. You can probably do your first expansion in 2 years. 2 years should be plenty of time to reach one character maxed level with some end game experience even for the very casual.
I agree with you here. I am fine with tiered release of end game content packs in each xpac... but I always hated games that felt they needed to release xpacs every six months to appease some players. Many players would leave because of the constantly moving finish line that they never felt they would reach. Whatever your expansion plan is... there has to be milestones for every player to feel they can reach. It may not be raid content... it may not even be max level... but if they never get a feeling of a sense of accomplishment, they will likely go on to play something else. And in the end... subscriptions are what pays for those content releases that the hard core players are craving. The more money... the more resources to produce juicy content.
Watemper: If the grind is long enough and the raids are plentyful and hard.
Rubezahl: but I always hated games that felt they needed to release xpacs every six months to appease some players.
I find the term "grind is long enough" a real put off and a misconception of the tennents of the game. The path taken when levelling is, from what I have read, very important and as important as the max level content, so I am expecting little in the way of grind. Lots of good quality content to explore through out all levels will reduce the need for speedy expansions. Quality over quantity.
If a player chooses to complete levels as fast as they can and take little heed of the journey, then, imo, they cannot complain that there is no where to go when maxed. This is a Role Playing Game not a race.
I was 33 when EQ came out.
Now I am 54. The question is not about how much playing time for me, but how to maintain health and still play MMO's?
Currently, I lost 55 lbs and cured myself of type II diabetes. Everyone will pay the cost of long hours playing MMOs. Unless you can just workout and play MMO's which would be awesome, but still not completely balanced.
The fun part for me is I get to play a Monk in real life with Kungfu and my various Qigongs. I learned so much about Qi, I hope I am not super disappointed by the Monk class in Pantheon.
So for me, if I still want to enjoy MMo's when I am 70 years old, I need a balanced approach. First of all, a stand-up desk is needed. Second, find a guild that values Health and wellness. I want to breed a culture where health is just as important as leveling up.
I did find a nutrition and health / lifestyle company that is taking nutrition to a whole new level, frick'in amazing people, if you want to know more, PM me.
chenzeme said:Watemper: If the grind is long enough and the raids are plentyful and hard.
Rubezahl: but I always hated games that felt they needed to release xpacs every six months to appease some players.
I find the term "grind is long enough" a real put off and a misconception of the tennents of the game. The path taken when levelling is, from what I have read, very important and as important as the max level content, so I am expecting little in the way of grind. Lots of good quality content to explore through out all levels will reduce the need for speedy expansions. Quality over quantity.
If a player chooses to complete levels as fast as they can and take little heed of the journey, then, imo, they cannot complain that there is no where to go when maxed. This is a Role Playing Game not a race.
When I say that. I am not talking about the people who rush. I use to no life rush for server firsts and stuff like that. But I always quit afterwards. I played eq when I was 9 with my family and had a great time not worrying about end game. People didn't know what endgame was. We just kind of played...leveled..and met new people. The game should cater around the people who can put in atleast 4 hour play sessions. If I think of 2 hour sessions...I think of trading and crafting and adventuring. When it comes to farming a piece and leveling...I think of longer intervals. Not saying you can't get into a group and grind for 2 hours, but I don't think yo should expect anything amazing is all.
Time doesn't equal skill. But it does equal investment. Investment is a strong dopamine when you put the time and effort in to achieving something. It can also change your perspective on what is important. If the leveling is soo long that no lifers can't reach max in 2 weeks with 18 hour play schedules...and it takes a month..or maybe 2 months...then they probably can't no life it. Would be career suicide. They can get pretty far ahead don't get me wrong. But I know me and many others who would only no life for like a 2 week window of leveling to max would not attempt it if it was 2 months instead. If I got a static group of players who play around my time we maybe no life for the first week and just get into the game to a certain point of being ahead of the mass population, which will then give us access to camps that will be open due to the majority being to low level.
My perspective is that it depends on the player that's playing the game.
I picked up EverQuest in 2000 when a friend of mine at work convinced me to try it out. I was 19 at the time and was working full-time in retail. Even with different shifts of day and night, different days off, etc, I still found time to play EverQuest. I wouldn't say I was hardcore into it but I still made it to max level, joined a guild, and progressed through the game. My guild was among some of the top on our server but we never really cared about getting server first in anything. All we cared about was progressing and experiencing the content.
I never really experienced "we need to be first on the server" or "first in the world" until I started playing World of Warcraft. Even in the beginning, there really wasn't any of that 'race to be first' stuff. Hell, on my original WoW server, most guilds were considered good if you could get Molten Core down to a 4-hour farm. It wasn't until streaming really took off and everyone had to make an eSport out of every single game that this mindset began to develop. Speedrunning games also became more prevalent and I believe that the combination of the two really gave birth to everyone feeling the need to do everything as fast as possible; otherwise, they'll be behind. I think a lot of games out there have catered to that mindset by stripping down core features of MMOs.
Why play the game as intended when you can just find a faster way to do something? Addons for WoW are a prime example of that as it used the game's API to add more efficient ways to do quests, manage the AH, avoid boss attacks, etc. etc.
I can almost guarantee that there are going to be some people who came into MMOs during this 'gotta go fast' phase and know nothing else about the genre and end up quitting Pantheon because the game is too slow, too hard, etc. They're not going to understand the social aspect that the genre once had. It will be inconceivable to them that there is a need for CC, that there will be downtime, and that there is a need to interact with other people in a social manner.
However, I also believe there could be some younger gamers who might play Pantheon and it will end up being their first MMO experience. They may not be aware of how the MMO genre has been for the better part of the past 10-15 years. They may have a completely different opinion
As for the "EQ Children" aspect. Yeah, I'm not 19 anymore. I've gone to college and I work a full-time job. Thankfully, it's not retail with a set M-F 8-5 schedule but being 39, I do have other responsibilities outside of my job and yes, I have less time today to play an MMO than I did 20 years ago. Still, my mindset is the same as it was in EQ:
Log in.
Play.
Get to max level with a guild.
Enjoy the content with them.
Not everyone is going to have this mindset. Some people are going to want to be the best of the best. That's just how it's going to be with some people. I can say something on it though in the fact that I am a self-published author. I'm in a couple of Discord communities for that and despite being 39, I've met other authors ranging from people around my age to about as young as 17. You'd be surprised that no matter what the age, how similar our mindsets can be when it comes to writing, and our inspirations to write. Commonality can be found in just about anything regardless of age. So, I don't think it matters if you are a Child of EQ or someone stepping into Pantheon at a younger age than an EQ veteran. If the player is aware of what Pantheon is and what they are getting into, you might find a bigger number of players will probably play the game similarly.
It's been a while since I engaged here. I couldn't even remember my password. This thread is kind of all over the place, but I think it's mostly about how individuals here view MMORPGs now versus how they viewed them when they were younger, specifically regarding play time. There are some comments about catering/not catering to casuals/hardcore players. There are also comments about what should or shouldn't be fun for other people. I'll start by explaining how my own perspective has changed. Skip over the italics if you don't care about my life.
I was 18 when I was lured into EverQuest in 1999, but I found that I was one of the younger players in the game. I would say most of the players I knew were full-blown adults with families, but there were some college students like me as well. MauvaisOeil hit this nail right on the head. I was one of those who was failing his studies. Anyway, there were couples that played together. There were children playing with their siblings and parents (all 18+, of course...lol). My first guild Guardians of Light was comprised mostly of people who had been in the military together and their families. I remember that probably the most hardcore player I knew early on was a rogue named Ninen. I think he was 60+ IRL and he was just always online. I only played the game until the beginning of PoP (and I basically didn't play past a couple weeks into Luclin), but during that time I played a ridiculous amount. I wasn't raiding for most of it, though. I wasn't even leveling. I was hanging out in North Freeport (we didn't do 'Tunnel' on Veeshan) and trading. Really, most of what I was doing was having conversations through tells with people all over the world who had become my friends. Like Questaar said, EverQuest was basically a 'chat room with pretty pictures' for me. I had friends in Europe. I had friends in Australia. I had friends in Japan. It was wild. So, yeah, most of my time in EverQuest was spent with my character sitting in some building I had claimed as my house or my room or my shop while I chatted. I remember (like StoneFish mentioned) how I loved to inspect the higher level characters (with permission, of course) and wonder about what kind of crazy dungeons and monsters their equipment came from. Seeing everyone that was so much more powerful than I was really added to the sense of wonder Norrath held for me. Even when I eventually leveled up and began to raid with some of the bigger guilds, this was mostly what I did with my time in game. I sat and chatted while I was waiting for a group, and then I chatted with my groupmates as well. When I quit EverQuest in 2002, I had accrued almost a real life year of /played time...and almost all of it was spent sitting around and chatting through tells. It sounds pretty boring, I'm sure, but I loved it.
I tried to grow up a bit once I quit EverQuest, and I mostly managed it. When World of Warcraft came out I had a great new job and things were looking up. I tried to stay away, but I couldn't, and I almost lost that new job before I got my addiction under control. I learned to prioritize work and I was able to play in my free time. I was mostly unable to raid in World of Warcraft because of my long hours and irregular schedule. I was in guilds that raided, but I couldn't really participate, so I mostly played alone. It turned out that World of Warcraft was a really good game to play alone. I did a lot of exploring and I leveled a lot of characters. I played World of Warcraft for the better part of eight years (yikes). And yeah, I still spent a ton of time just chatting through tells.
I played other MMOs through the years, but no other game was able to hold me. The closest was probably Star Wars: The Old Republic, but it lacked content early on and my friends and I burned out within a couple months. I wasted a bunch of time and money on Landmark/EverQuest Next. I played Archeage for a while. Eventually I stumbled upon this game. I'd actually been planning on supporting another game, but I watched a Pantheon stream and it felt just like my EverQuest, so I pledged here.
One night while chatting about Pantheon in Discord I was talking to a guy about how I can't raid in MMORPGs anymore because of my job. He told me that if I played with people who were properly organized I could not only raid, but actually be a major contributor. That guy ended up being Zaide from Faceless. I've been through a few EverQuest Progression Servers with Faceless now, and yes, my approach to MMORPGs has changed. I do want to level a character as quickly as possible now, and I know I'm going to have an absolute blast doing it. Still, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy exploring, or questing, or crafting, or just sitting around chatting. I've seen a lot of people here say that hardcore players don't know how to enjoy the game. People who want to level quickly aren't enjoying the game less; they are just enjoying it differently, or possibly just in a different order. We're still into all of the little things...the little quests most people don't bother with...the obscure camps...the lore. I don't think you'll find a player more into the lore and intricacies of early EverQuest than Zaide.
Why does there need to be a war between hardcore and casual players? Neither group would enjoy the game more if the other wasn't present. Is anyone posting here right now really a casual player anyway? We've all spent countless hours reading and debating about a game that is likely still years away from release. Pretty hardcore in my estimation. I was once probably one of the most hardcore on these boards, but I haven't had the will or energy (or time) to be active here for the last couple years. I'm actually impressed with how hardcore some of the self-titled 'casual players' here are.
All that said, I do think it's important for people to be able to accomplish something in a 2-3 hour play session, and I think that's probably going to come pretty naturally. I guess there were three things that made it so EverQuest was hard to play in short sessions:
1. Gaining a level required an amount of experience that wasn't easily gained.
2. Most classes couldn't gain experience efficiently while alone.
3. It was difficult to find a group.
So, because of these things above, people tended to want to stay in a group for hours and hours once they finally got in...especially if the group was doing well. I think that in Pantheon, items two and three will no longer be issues. I'd like to see item one remain, though I'm dubious. Even if soloing still isn't efficient, decent LFG tools should allow players to see gains in a 2-3 hour session. I don't think this needs to mean that you can get a level in 2-3 hours. You just need to be able to feel like you are making progress.
Anyway, I have literally gotten engaged, gotten married, and had two babies since I pledged to support this game. How much time I have to spend in game will depend largely upon when the game is released. Sure, I've got more responsibilities now, but I also have a level of control over my life that wasn't there when I was younger. One thing I can say to the Original Poster, though, is that a lot of the most hardcore people I've played with recently have not been younger players. They're people my age, or even older. Whether I've got the time to be a hardcore player or not, though, I know I want as much content as I can get. EverQuest -was- about the journey. You could have as much fun (or more) grouping at Level 8 as you could raiding at max level. If it's about the journey and not the destination, wouldn't you want the journey to be longer and fuller? Why would anyone want less game just so there aren't things that other people -might- get to do that they -might- not get to do? I don't understand it at all, but then I don't need to understand it. I'll just focus on what I enjoy rather than worrying about what I think other people should be doing or what I think other people should enjoy.
I think my biggest hurdle to leveling anymore is that I cannot tell you if I am going to have time to play from day to day. So I get into a good group and level a couple times... then I come back two days later and they are ten levels above me... and I have to find a new group of people to play with. It makes it very hard to meet a group that you can stay with until you all reach a point where the game slows down significantly and a few levels difference isn't the end of the world. Like my old Army buddies that I game with... we always try to keep toons around the same level so we can play together... but then a few people quit... a few people like that toon so much they want to continue leveling when others aren't on... a few have more time on their hands... a few just like to craft... I really don't have that many friends but you get the idea!
Rubezahl said:I think my biggest hurdle to leveling anymore is that I cannot tell you if I am going to have time to play from day to day. So I get into a good group and level a couple times... then I come back two days later and they are ten levels above me... and I have to find a new group of people to play with. It makes it very hard to meet a group that you can stay with until you all reach a point where the game slows down significantly and a few levels difference isn't the end of the world. Like my old Army buddies that I game with... we always try to keep toons around the same level so we can play together... but then a few people quit... a few people like that toon so much they want to continue leveling when others aren't on... a few have more time on their hands... a few just like to craft... I really don't have that many friends but you get the idea!
What I would usually do...if you don't really care about leveling fast is find a static group and make two characters. One you play when they aren't on, and one you play when everyone gets on, and all the others do the same. Worked for me in one MMO. Just have a designated character for static and one for yourself when they aren't on and you shouldn't have problems if everyone is in agreement that is.
nfab said: Sadly if you're concerned on your age at the moment, just imagine how old you'll be when it gets released...if it isnt outdated by then. Guinness had called them and was thinking of awarding VR with the world record for the most pre alphas in mmo history.
Then you haven't been keeping track of Star Citizen. It's development cycle is FAR WORSE than Pantheon's. The only difference is tha their pre-alpha is open.