Forums » Crafting

Crafter's Roundtable: Death, Durability, and Repairs

    • 2 posts
    September 1, 2020 11:10 PM PDT

    Keeping in mind that this is supposed to take money out of circulation I would break It down in to a Trinity system. 
    I can see a Durability and Repair system, working with Crafting as a bonus like so:

     

    Durability

    When gear is damaged:

    Stat reduction up to (1/2) or (3/4) of X% up to when completely broken

    Armor class reduction from the piece of X% up to when completely broken

         This will allow a player to continue with damaged gear to a certain point but allow you to still be effective until your armor is complely broken and unusable, and put different stress on classes that use there gear for stats vs armor class. My thoughts on this would be that stats would be a more impactful loss to dps, healers. and support vs. Tanks who would need the Armor class. But never removing stats gained from armor completely allowing all classes to have a fraction of there potency when clicking buttons, but no AC/Defence when armor is broken. 

     

    This plays into the ability to repair as such: 


    Repair

    Repairing can be done in 2 different ways which each would have pro's and con's when it comes to the two most important things, MONEY and TIME.

    1. Repair at a NPC - Repar all your gear to full.

       I would like to see this take time rather than be instant. Lets say its a 10 second channel for the NPC to finish. I feel that a small channel is something that feels significant, and makes repair from death more impactful. While at the same time it is also something that would not be to overwhelming in conjunction with what we allready know about the death penalties

    2. Repair via Player character (yourself) - From the repair NPC, players could purchase an item that will repair A SINGLE PIECE of gear over a channeled duration.

      What this means is that you have a consumable that will allow you to repair in the field. However you will have to buy multiple because it is one piece at a time, and for a percent, rather than a full repair for all your gear at once. You will also have to take the time and make sure that you are safe to perform the repair, because it would be a channel while hostiles could be around.  

    When it comes to repairing this way and keeping costs in mind, I belive that you could put things into level brackets with gear, but this depends on if pantheon decides to have levels on the gear itself. 

    An Example is:

    Gear 1-10 level is a certain cost at the NPC to repair to full, and takes a 10 second channel. To repair gear yourself in the field you would need the consumables in that level bracket to repair a single item. The consumables should only repair a set % of the durability however and each item in that braket would cost a fraction of the repair, which would be slightly greater than if you repaired a single item at the NPC itself. Also each consumeable would be short channel, if the NPC is 10 seconds for all, 2 seconds for a single piece could work (forcing you to spend a lot more time to repair all of your gear in the feild vs a quick repair in a safe haven. 

    The overall thought behind this would be that it is more efficent to get to an NPC and have them do it, however if you plan ahead then you can spend time and money to have the ability to repair items on the fly if you choose to do so. 

    Players would save money if they went to an NPC to repair but might lose time, or even there camp spot. Repairing on site would cost you more and could be risky because it would leave you in a channel, making you vunerabule to attack by NPC's forcing you to repair while protecting yourself or your party members in the field. 

     

    Crafting

    My final thought is that when you think of it in terms of crafting. You could be able to get a bonus to the percentage repaired when using the consumable when it comes to gear types that you can craft, meaning you would spend the same amount for the consumables as everyone else but would be more effective in using them because of your Crafting Skill. This would not eliminate the overall base cost of repairing, but rather help cut down on the costly inflation of buying the consumables to have the ability to repair in the field.

    This all would depend heavily on a internal level system for gear, weather the player can see this level or not  . . . Just some food for thought based on previous posts. I do think that if any part of this could be implimented in an MMO system it would be super interesting! There are also plenty of ways to modify each point I pruposed so I could see that adapting it to another system would be a power play! 


    This post was edited by JonWane at September 1, 2020 11:15 PM PDT
    • 471 posts
    September 8, 2020 10:56 PM PDT

    Trasak and Barin999, I appreciate both your ideas!I And I think you both are on to something with how I feel about durability loss too.

    Though I would not appreciate a 'chance' to have all my items break with death. Seems too harsh a penalty. My thought on durability, although less specific, generally having a slow, gradual loss of effectiveness over time will lead to gradual decrease of item function/effectiveness and the greater the durability loss (or time without repair) the greater the 'chance' of incurring a 'broken' item that absolutely requires repair to incur the item's benefit again. My definition of gradual would be several hours of gameplay (6 - 12 hours) or perhaps 6 - 8 deaths, or a combination thereof.

    I do believe that crafters must be incorporated into the repair dynamic. Someone mentioned the idea that a PC repairing an item could potentially gain experience in that crafting school; I think that's a great idea. This acknowledges and promotes their contribution beyond receiving only tips for their service; as their skill increases, their crafting will continue to benefit not only themselves but other players over time as well. Crafter level should be relevent to the level of the item repaired. I also think the onus for PC repairs should be delivered at static crafting sites. If repair kits are to be thing then I think they should only be a temporary jerry-rig repair that accounts for a set % (say 25 - 50%) of a total repair and never should kits completely repair items.

    JonWane; I was wondering something along these lines as well. What does damage affect in terms of an item and should there be a difference between the disfunction of an item that melee and tanks use compared to those casters use? What about Clerics? Would damage only affect AC/DPS, or stats, or special bonuses and/or magical abilities or all of the above? Curious to see how others think about these things.


    This post was edited by OakKnower at September 8, 2020 10:57 PM PDT
    • 23 posts
    September 19, 2020 1:53 PM PDT
    I would like to see a system where crafters could repair (to some degree) out in the field. So if your in the middle of a camp or middle of no where, there could be some repair. Obviously this would require materials to perform along with some downtime possibly. Obviously, limits would be placed due to lack of proper equipment along with materials to be used taking up precious bag space. Something like only able to repair up to a point, maybe even having a min limit due to an item being so damaged you would NEED to use proper equipment or risk making it worse. Something similar i think would be cool
    • 4 posts
    October 13, 2020 10:18 AM PDT

    Durability loss should have nothing to do with death....it should be useage that causes durability loss....not sure why everyone wants to tie in durability to death...so your fight the same enemy 10 times, the first nine times no death so items are pristine...10th time you die and all of a sudden your items are damaged...god no please........i use to think it was a good idea but the more i thought about it the less i like it it feels really silly....

    All classes should have durability loss...with item type telling you how much durability an item has....a tanks plate armor would have a **** ton of durability where as a wizard robe would have very little...tons of hits on a tank before fix...just a few for wizard robe...

    Just don't tie it to death its ridiculous....the hits during the fight cause the durability loss not the death....

    As for death penalty seeing as they want people to keep their useful items (not junk in inventory...thats not a penalty most times) i would say the only real penalty death could have is drastic XP hit.

    If i lost 10% xp for a level per death i would consider my options before engaging and weigh the risk/reward knowing it would take hours to get back that xp....but from what i have seen i highly doubt the death penalty will be scary...i hope im wrong though but who knows yet...cant wait to find out if they go easy or hard...

    my 2cents....maybe less....

    Kridak

     

    • 3 posts
    November 23, 2020 4:46 PM PST

    +2 cents:

    On my end of the extreme spectrum, I believe that crafting should be a very complicated process that not everyone wants to deal with the hassle of getting into. Probably the best crafting experience I've had so far is EQ2 where, not only did we have base components like roots and ores, but we had mid-tier components like lether straps (tanner) and metal buckles (blacksmith) that a leatherworker would need to get from other crafting professions to create a backpack.  An armor smith would need to get metal bolts (blacksmith) and leather plates (tanner) to make armor, and even the tanner needed oils (alchemist) to make those leather mid-components. I would love to see a very complicated, inter-dependant crafting system that requires time and effort, along with some form of mini-game to keep it interesting. EQ2 had a great mini-game where the longer you took to make an item, the less quality that item had. Complications would also arrise that you needed your crafting skills (hotbar buttons) to compensate for. I still remember trying to make a soup and accedentally overheated it while adding too much salt. This really gave me the feeling that I was making something, and that each item was unique. 

    On the flip side of the spectrum is World of Warcraft and Asheron's Call, where you click "combine" and watch a little bar in the middle of your screen fill up while your arms go out, come together, and presto! you have an item. Want 1000? Change quantity, click combine and watch the bar fill 1000 times while you sit there and drool...

    Again, I know I might (I am) be on the extreme end where not many people want to see complicated crafting, but to them, I just say don't get into it then. Be the adventurer you want to be, buy the item from the few who want to dedicate the time and effort to make these amazing things, and boom: economy!

    As for end-game, duribility. Have armor and swords break after use. Cooks and Alchemists get repeat business because their potions and soups are one-shot items, so they are constantly in demand late-game. Smiths need durability so that there is a constant demand for new armor and weapons. We can even have a repair system where the max duribility decreases by X% every time it's repaired, so eventually its max duribility would be 1 and break after one hit, thus not worth keeping any more, and time to get a new set made. We can also have different base enchantments imbued into the armor by an enchanter while the armor is being created, so players could have multiple versions of armor depending on what kind of mob they are fighting... Sort of like Monster Hunter I guess. Then players could wear their regular late-game armor (cheaper so don't care if the duribility degrades) for grinding quests, and then swap to their high-tier enchanted armor (only used when needed so don't have to repair/replace very often) for a specific raid.

    I wouldn't have stats degrade with durability, however. Making a sword that deals 10 damage wouldn't be 10 very long, and only end up doing 1 point of damage during its last 10% of life... That just wouldn't be fun. Make the durability an issue because then artisans can have more fun repairing and making new armor, and keep the stats constant so that players can have more fun using the items they grinded for until they actually break.

    I also don't think durability should be tied to death. DEVs in past games created that system, IMHO, because they wanted to try to give death meaning by tying it to some arbitrary penalty completed unrelated to dying. I also don't like dropping everything upon death because if you want to just rage-quit and cool off for a while, you can't until you complete a corpse run which is just frustrating. Why play a game that is frustrating when there are so many games that aren't? Loosing levels is also frustrating because it makes you feel like you wasted your time leading up to this point, so if I could choose a death penalty, it wouldn't be durability loss (keeping this comment tied to the topic) or level loss, but rather an exp penalty like in 7DTD where you have a stat debuff until you pay back the grim reaper with enough post-death gathered experience.

    Thanks for reading!


    This post was edited by Smurgle at November 23, 2020 4:52 PM PST