Last week I wrote a post asking what the social value of Perception should be. I don't know what VR's plans for the system are, but there's been a lot of discussion since then and people (including me) have thrown around a lot of ideas of different things that could be done to give value and meaning (beyond simple lore) to the Perception system.
All of that discussion got me to thinking that maybe the right solution is to think about what Keepers do in the context of the world and find ways to implement that as gameplay. To do that requires thinking about the value of lore within the game as well. Is lore just a story that gives context to the world, or is there more to it than that? Here's what I think that value *should* be within Pantheon.
- Lore allows people to piece together lost knowledge that has practical benefits.
- Lore allows people to understand other individuals and groups, their motivations and needs.
- Lore allows people to solve riddles, puzzles, and access secrets.
- Lore allows people to become aware of events that are still in motion and to prepare.
Keepers are the arbiters of lore within the world of Terminus. They spend their time investigating and researching, and as a result, they learn things that they can then convey to others. In essence, Keeper gameplay should be both about being a detective, as well as being an information broker of sorts. After all, lore means very little unless it can be used.
So with that in mind, I came up with four major ways that Keepers can provide value to other players:
1) Keepers can produce "lore fragments" (tradable item) based on the knowledge they have in their Tome of Keeping that can be consumed by crafters to research special item recipes and consumed by adventurers to solve puzzles and access secrets. If this is implemented there should be different types of "lore fragments" - for example, nature lore vs. draconian lore vs. historical lore.
2) As their skills improve, Keepers can identify an NPC's factions and disposition by observing the NPC. So for example, a Keeper might be able to tell you which Orc has the Opportunist disposition in a dungeon, or point out to you which of the guards is actually working with the bandits.
3) As keepers complete storylines, they should gain the ability to trigger special events relevant to that storyline. For example, the Keeper may learn how to draw a specific NPC out of hiding, and now that is a service that they can provide to other players who wish to fight that NPC. (For balance, there would have to be limits on how often each Keeper could do this, and these things should still be relatively rare).
4) Advanced Keepers should learn clues that predict upcoming story changes and reveals. For example, while most players can probably guess that the Wraith are up to something, Keepers might be able to find out details about the wraiths' plan, and share that information with other players, setting the stage for the world event that's planned to occur in a few months. While this isn't a direct gameplay benefit for anyone, Keepers effectively become a vehicle for foreshadowing as Terminus continues to change and evolve.
Anyway, those are the thoughts I had about how Keepers can, directly and indirectly, contribute to everyone's gameplay - hopefully without every player feeling compelled to go become a Keeper. I have no idea if these match what VR is thinking about doing, but I figured I'd put it out there to further the discussion.
I would be totally up for some of that stuff.
Kinda like making 'lore keeper' another crafter, in a way. The lore 'crafter' can produce 'maps' to treasure, 'keys' to allow access, 'triggers' for raid bosses.
As for the bestiary stuff, I kinda think anyone who kills enough of a type or spends enough time in an area should get that knd of knowledge.
But great ideas.
As I've said before, I'm fine with Keeper being a totally lore-based, non-functional thing, but if they *do* make it have a more game-oriented function, that'd be fine with me too.
Subject to Dorotea's first law it all sounds excellent.
The first law being that we need a release as soon as feasible of a polished, reasonably large and stable (not too many bugs or crashes) game.
Anything needed to be done to achieve this should be done even if it takes a significant amount of time and effort.
Anything not needed to achieve this no matter how much I may want it can wait until after release unless it doesn't cause more delay. This may, or may not, include housing, fleshing out perception as Nephele suggests, endgame content, and much more.
Some of these sound familiar,..
1) I like the fragment idea. It's a nice addition when players are already well acquainted with the basics of the perception system. This doesn't have to be all the time either, it adds flavour.
2) VR actually already suggested/explained that this might be in the game. This during one of the streams. So, you got that already in, Nephele (most likely anyway). It doesn't really matter if it doesn't make it in before launch. Again, it's one of those extras that can grow organically along the way. I do want to stress, that you don't want to take away the value of scouts in all this. A scout who's a Keeper, seems a very valuable groupmember. But if the Keeper can overclass a Scoutclass on their own terrain, you might have an incoming identity crisis coming. You might aswel just call them dps class instead of scouts.
3) Nice one, perhaps I'd like to see it reversed. Instead of drawing out a mob to kill, the Keeper could neutralize (convince, confuse, distract, discuss, persuade) the opponent without a fight. Otherwise you're going into scout, monk and other CC's value...and I'd say, let those classes have their perks that make them stand out.
4) I've made a similar suggestion on another thread somewhere. So yeah, would be fun. It might be tricky to update the game and implement these things within a timely manner. It can be tried out for sure. Would you fear that this could lead to hurding the players towards certain areas or mobs?
Nephele said:Last week I wrote a post asking what the social value of Perception should be. I don't know what VR's plans for the system are, but there's been a lot of discussion since then and people (including me) have thrown around a lot of ideas of different things that could be done to give value and meaning (beyond simple lore) to the Perception system.
All of that discussion got me to thinking that maybe the right solution is to think about what Keepers do in the context of the world and find ways to implement that as gameplay. To do that requires thinking about the value of lore within the game as well. Is lore just a story that gives context to the world, or is there more to it than that? Here's what I think that value *should* be within Pantheon.
- Lore allows people to piece together lost knowledge that has practical benefits.
- Lore allows people to understand other individuals and groups, their motivations and needs.
- Lore allows people to solve riddles, puzzles, and access secrets.
- Lore allows people to become aware of events that are still in motion and to prepare.
Keepers are the arbiters of lore within the world of Terminus. They spend their time investigating and researching, and as a result, they learn things that they can then convey to others. In essence, Keeper gameplay should be both about being a detective, as well as being an information broker of sorts.
What you wrote here about the value of Lore is what I was trying to express about the value of Perception. And it's why I'm certain that Keepers will be of use to any in the game who don't choose to be one themselves.
Though I totally disagree that "lore means very little unless it can be used". It may mean that to you, just as what a mob looks like may mean nothing to someone who only cares how challenging the mob is to fight. Every aspect of the game has those who care about it, and those who would happily jettison it if the result was having the game release a month earlier.
2) As their skills improve, Keepers can identify an NPC's factions and disposition by observing the NPC. So for example, a Keeper might be able to tell you which Orc has the Opportunist disposition in a dungeon, or point out to you which of the guards is actually working with the bandits.
4) Advanced Keepers should learn clues that predict upcoming story changes and reveals. For example, while most players can probably guess that the Wraith are up to something, Keepers might be able to find out details about the wraiths' plan, and share that information with other players, setting the stage for the world event that's planned to occur in a few months. While this isn't a direct gameplay benefit for anyone, Keepers effectively become a vehicle for foreshadowing as Terminus continues to change and evolve.
Those are great ideas, I'd love to see something like that be part of the growth of Perception.
1) Keepers can produce "lore fragments" (tradable item) based on the knowledge they have in their Tome of Keeping that can be consumed by crafters to research special item recipes and consumed by adventurers to solve puzzles and access secrets. If this is implemented there should be different types of "lore fragments" - for example, nature lore vs. draconian lore vs. historical lore.
Totally disagree with making Perception produce anything that can be sold to other players. Almost everything of real value in an MMO becomes part of the player economy, and leads to grinding/farming and players competing for resources. Perception has the potential to be something that is useful and rewarding without being sellable. I'd really like VR to try and make that happen.
3) As keepers complete storylines, they should gain the ability to trigger special events relevant to that storyline. For example, the Keeper may learn how to draw a specific NPC out of hiding, and now that is a service that they can provide to other players who wish to fight that NPC. (For balance, there would have to be limits on how often each Keeper could do this, and these things should still be relatively rare).
I like this idea a lot too...except for the "a service that they can provide to others" part. So if it can happen in a way that doesn't lend itself to making gold, then a big YES.
Edit: I did a lot of copy/paste in this comment and have no idea why some text became bold. It's not intentional and doesn't convey any particular meaning lol