Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

In Game Quest Book Issue

    • 1860 posts
    May 26, 2020 4:52 AM PDT

    @raezel There are many different reasons people play mmos. If you enjoy the story, great. It's not for me.

    For decades I tried to get into the story of games but I have stopped trying to fight it. That's not why I'm playing a mmo.

    For example, I couldn't stand the voice overs in SWtOR. I couldn't space bar through it fast enough.

    If I want a story I read a book or watch a movie. I havent ever found a games story that sucked me in anywhere close to the same as a good book. (And at this point I don't think any game ever will)

    When I play a game I want to increase my characters power primarily. Killing things is also fun.  Over coming challenges is fun. Reading the story...that is delaying me from doing those fun things...is not fun.

    If you are one who enjoys reading long quest dialogue type of story you might be surprised how many people dislike it.


    This post was edited by philo at May 26, 2020 4:54 AM PDT
    • 888 posts
    May 26, 2020 8:28 AM PDT
    @Ranarius
    That is annoying. But that's also why I always skip shared written quest dialog--I hate making others wait. If they went with cut scenes (which I really hope they do), then it's the same length for everyone.
    • 1273 posts
    May 26, 2020 9:46 AM PDT

    Counterfleche said: @Ranarius That is annoying. But that's also why I always skip shared written quest dialog--I hate making others wait. If they went with cut scenes (which I really hope they do), then it's the same length for everyone.

    Yeah, I can see both sides.  You hang out and read the whole story, taking it in, just to realize your group is GONE off doing the quest without you, haha.  Well...that was a WoW issue, I think this game is being designed to slow people down a little.  So hopefully the culture of your friend group or guild is different than those trying to rush through WoW quests.

    • 36 posts
    May 27, 2020 8:08 AM PDT

    I wrote this up a couple years ago when we first saw the "chat dialogue" type quest system on stream with Vress: Link to part of stream where player begins dialogue

     

    I think what I'd prefer would be a sort of hybrid approach between chatbox and quest dialog.

    With the quest dialog model I see in most games these days a window pops up with the NPC text and you have a few set responses that are usually a full sentance sort of thing.

    I'd like to have a window open when I hail an NPC that has its own input box, the NPC dialog would pop up and then you type your responses and then maybe have the option to save that whole dialog to your journal when you are done.

    On a new page with a few interactables like a bookmark to reopen your journal to that page, the ability to turn pages forward and back and enter a page number to go to, a highlighter tool so you can highlight bits you think are important, maybe be able to add a checklist of things to do but not have it auto-populate that could be crossed out/checked off and a checkbox at the bottom for completion checkable only by you, perhaps with the ability to add notes to the page as well. Basically the things you could do with a real, written, journal without having to write everything back out, you wouldn't lose it if you wanted to clear your chat log or on logout.  

    Basically I just like to have a window to focus my attention on that I don't look at for other info or conversations with the ability to save the conversation. I don't need to have the quest requirements lined out and automatically checked off as I accomplish them or put the item in my inventory. I don't need to have a tracker button that puts a blurb about that quest on my screen all the time.

    I would also add at this point that maybe being able to add entries for my own "quests" or goals that I set for myself would be cool such as adding a new entry with the title "Become the best weapon crafter in the game" and you could add a checklist:

    • o Learn crafting skill
    • o learn harvesting skill
    • o level them up
    • o craft lots of things
    • o etc

    Or be able to have one that you edit every time you log out so you don't forget what you are doing like:

    1. "My logout reminder quest"

     

    • o in the middle of the quest described on page XX of this journal

     

    or

     

    • o Gathering herbs to make that potion for tomorrow's raid

     

    Those are my thoughts on quest dialogues and what I would love to see in a quest journal.


    This post was edited by Tagaderm at May 27, 2020 8:10 AM PDT
    • 2138 posts
    May 27, 2020 6:31 PM PDT

    So, I am imagining a couple of search functions:

    1. key word search by city/zone/discovered area (cannot search key words by areas you have not been to) For instance you've heard some monster/NPC say something quest related about iron ore. You input "Iron" and select search from dropdown "amberfaet". Return: a list of every NPC in amberfaet that has said "Iron" that you have interacted with including merchants

    2. partial NPC search by city: From key word search menu select dropdown to toggle name, input partial NPC name and select search from dropdown to select city/zone/discovered area. For instance, you are in syronae's Rest and you meet a beautiful dying myr who gurgles "tumpy" . You search Tumpy in kingsreach, and all the other broad areas you have been, you get nothing. Since youve never been to thronefadst Tumpy, who hangs out at one of the bars there, never comes up. I mention broad areas because I dont want this to become another mini-game. Like you can go general to specific. He's in west antonica! in west antonica are deserts of ro consisting of north ro, south ro, commons and freeport- hes not in desserts of ro. that kind of thing so its quick but you dont have to look in each one.

    3. City/zone/discoverd area search by NPC or key word. Pretty much the opposite of above where you put in the area name, and it returns all the NPC's you have interacted with IN YOUR QUEST JOURNAL

    4. Lore item search by quest journal NPC: enter lore item found and it will return any mention of the lore item made by any NPC you have interacted with, likewise if you have a lore item you picked up and later talk to an NPC, the quest journal will blink or something to let you know you HAVE that item....somewhere.


    This post was edited by Manouk at May 27, 2020 6:31 PM PDT
    • 103 posts
    June 1, 2020 12:56 PM PDT

    I wouldnt mind a quest log that keeps track of quests and objectives. So long as it doesnt mark every quest NPC with a the golden ! and highlight every spot in the map I need to go its fine. Objectives arent bad either. Hell... it doesnt even need to be a perfectly spelled out and formatted log for every quest either. I like how the quest log in the old Baldurs Gate games worked for example.

    Say you happen to talk to some NPC ... she/he asked you to do something, you agree. The quest log could just say something like: "So and so at the Freindly Arm Inn asked me to kill some giant spiders in her home next to the Jovial Juggler in Beregost"

    Thats it. Short and to the point. No bullet lists or what have you. Just what you'd expect a person to write in a journal in that kind of situation. The NPC couldve originally told you the entire background story of how those spiders got there or why on earth she decided to travel north for days instead of just asking the local guard but thats for you to remember. Or ... as is also possible in BG, you can write down any extra notes for yourself ... in game, no need to have a RL notebook next to you at all times. IMO it holds your hand as little as possible without risking we forget and leave half done quests in the air with no way of picking it up again sometime down the line. Also engages and immerses the player more having to use in game resources like your own notebook to keep track of the details of your adventure. Goes great with custom map markers as well (hint hint). So long as its a resource you can expect a random adventurer to have within the bounds of the setting, I think itd work well.

    Only negative is it heavily depends on designers to be thorough in their quest design. One of the reasons I originally welcomed quest trackers and objective GPS was because I ran into one too many poorly designed or written quests that either gave very vague information, if any at all ... or just down right wrong in their description. Like how many of us in our long MMO history didnt spend a good chunk of time farming for a quest drop only to find out it actually only drops from a slightly differently named mob elsewhere? Or maybe all we got is some vague clue that didnt really make any sense even after you looked it up?


    This post was edited by Kayo at June 1, 2020 1:04 PM PDT
    • 22 posts
    June 2, 2020 1:20 AM PDT

    Having been on the mad hunt for the first cleric epic 2.0 in the gates expansion of EQ, I remember how the community came alive, with posts about where possible locations were.  The cleric community response to epic 2.0 was nothing short of .. well.. epic!  I loved those days, and nothing in any mmorpg since has replaced it.  I'm hoping for something similiar personally, the question book suggests otherwise.  There has to be a balance between catering for people like me and catering for those that want to learn the lore through linear driven quests I guess.

    • 7 posts
    August 7, 2022 7:29 AM PDT

    jstsunami said:

    Here are my thoughts on questing or the book in general:

     

    1.) When it comes to the quest acquistion, I'm ok with my quest log/journal identifying who gave me the quest and potentially what zone he was in.  I'm also good with even recording in the journal what was specifically said to you or the dialogue given.  What I don't want is for the quest log to identify what zone is needed to accomplish this quest.  Depending on the quest contents itself, I'm ok with identifying the individual in the quest dialogue, but I'd prefer descriptions of the character and not so much mentioning of them by name.  (If an NPC knows who they need to assist them in a quest, why would they not seek them out themselves.

    2.) My hope is the vagueness or cryptic nature of the quest will not define what zone is needed and also what steps are the upcoming steps of the quest.

    3.) Finally and I think this was a given, no markers or clear definitions that an obtained no drop item relates to a specific quest.  Also no notifications that you've got the necessary items to complete a quest.

     

    I'd say the way I've seen questing done in such manner the best most recently is Divinity Original Sin 2.  They leave it vague enough to make a person explore and talk to many people in most quests.  (I could be misremembering, but the quests where they keep it vague is the best)

     

    I definitely dont want hand holding but im not against getting a place to start. "The last time I saw the Gem of Awesomeness it was around the mountains of Hillsbrad foothills but an Ogre scared me away." From here you could have to kill an orgre... or you notice deeper in one cave or area theres a mob that has been killing ogres and youll end up finding the item a bit further away then expected but on one of those mobs.