After reading the newsletter, and many people's comments about the climate system and acclimation, I wanted to try to talk about how I feel the system should work, and some of the pieces that are missing (or at least that we haven't heard about yet).
For me, I don't want to think of climates as a "keying" system per se. I see climates affecting wide areas of zones. The most extreme climate levels may only exist in very small, localized places, but the effects spread out from there, becoming weaker as you get further away. This means that as you venture in towards the focal points of the climate, you need more and more protection from it - and even with that protection, you'll still experience negative effects over time.
However, a passive effect alone doesn't really make the environment matter. There need to also be hazards - things specific to that particular climate area that you need to watch out for. Things that you'll have to deal with, and that can harm you no matter how good your passive protection is. This is the part that I think is missing from what we know so far. It's the thing that gives a climate teeth.
To try and illustrate what I'm talking about, I wrote a short story about an expedition to explore a cave system with a toxic climate. If you think of the cave system as a large zone (not just a small cave), it helps show how climates might change the way that we adventure. Plus, it was fun to think about what a toxic climate might be like.
Here's the story. I hope if nothing else it fuels some more discussion :)
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Recovered from the logbook of Reginald Thordenault, Explorer’s Guild, Thronefast
Day 1
Today we accepted a commission to explore a cavern system recently found in the foothills on the western end of the Silent Plains. An unusual request – normally, these sorts of things are the province of so-called adventurers, but the client seemed to believe it worthy of our guild and paid our asking price without any attempt at negotiation. I have assembled a team of experienced miners, geologians, and cartographers, and hired some mercenaries in case we encounter any beasts or fiends inside the place. We leave once the supplies have all been gathered.
Day 6
We’ve arrived at the cave mouth without incident. Any brigands along the trail were likely scared off by the size of our party. As the men worked on establishing our base camp, I took Thomas to do a preliminary inspection of the cave entrance. We were struck by the state of the vegetation nearby – sickly and decaying. Some of the men have reported minor headaches, but our healer doesn’t seem to think there is much cause for concern. As the sun set, we noticed small mushrooms near the entrance to the cavern that glowed with a pale light. Still, nothing that looks too hazardous. Tomorrow we’ll send our first scouts into the cave to get a better idea of what we’re dealing with.
Day 7
Our scouts returned much sooner than I expected. They reported that as they advanced into the cavern, they encountered foul odors and noxious fumes that concerned them, and the flames of their torches guttered with a strange green tinge. As they went forward, they began to feel ill and dizzy and thus turned back before some mishap befell them. After some consultation with our expedition’s alchemist, we determined that a simple filtration mask of treated leather would likely be all that is needed. As I speak, our artisan is working with the alchemist to craft several of these for our scouting team.
Day 9
The masks we created seem to have been effective. We have mapped the initial chambers of the cavern system. The entire place seems coated in mosses and algae, and more of those glowing mushrooms. As of yet, we’ve seen no sign of beasts other than a few small spiders – certainly nothing to be concerned about. Tomorrow we plan to push deeper into the cavern, and our geologians want to see if there are any mineral resources that may be of interest inside.
Day 12
Vanson’s team is overdue to return from their search of the western corridor. Their last report indicated that the fumes were thicker in that direction, although nothing they felt their masks couldn’t handle. I’ve pulled back the other two teams and sent them to search for Vanson. Something about this situation makes me uneasy, but the teams so far have reported no signs of hostile beasts. Perhaps I am just becoming paranoid in my old age.
In more promising news, the geologians report that there are signs of rare metals and mineral veins in the caves. Only small quantities so far, but they indicate that there are likely larger veins deeper in.
Day 13
Our search party found some of Vanson’s men, seemingly overcome by the fumes. When we found them, they had collapsed, but still breathed. Our healer believes they will recover with time. Vanson and half of his team are still missing, however. Our alchemist has devised a salve that can be applied to the masks to make them more effective, and we’re going back in to search for them. As a precaution, I’ve also sent a rider back to Thronefast for another healer and a wizard, to aid us in completing our objective.
Day 14
We found the rest of Vanson’s team… or what was left of them. I’m not sure if I believe it, but it seems they wandered into some sort of spore cloud that befuddled their senses. This, in turn, caused them to enter a bubbling pool of acidic sludge. It was… a gruesome sight. I have ordered the men to pull back while we determine how best to deal with the spores and the thickening fumes.
As if to mock us, just behind the acid pool was a wall marbled with veins of rare ores. A small comfort.
Day 18
Our wizard arrived from Thronefast a day earlier than expected. After listening to our accounts of what we had seen inside, he produced a diagram from a tome that he carried, saying that we could augment our protection against the fumes and spores with magical glyphs scribed onto the bodies of our scouts. The potency depends on the reagents used, but apparently, we have what we need from the local area to create at least a few of them. As we speak, our alchemist and the wizard are equipping some of our best scouts with these glyphs.
Day 19
The glyphs seem to be effective. Our scouting team today was able to venture past the chamber with the acid pool and discovered ruined structures beyond it. Someone once lived here, although it’s hard to imagine anyone living in such a foul place. The structures, small huts of stone, were abandoned, but a passage beyond led further in, and further down. Our team recovered some trinkets made from precious metals and set with jewels – clearly, the people who once lived here were skilled artisans. They also found more veins of those same metals.
Day 22
Three of our scouts have fallen over the last two days. The first encountered some sort of poison geyser. Even with his glyph and his mask, he died before the team could get him back to the camp and our healers. The second was ensnared by some sort of carnivorous fungus. While his cohorts cut him free, the vile plant had injected some sort of venomous spores into him that turned his skin black and killed him…. Painfully, from what I am told. The third man, one of our most experienced scouts, slipped and fell into a lower portion of a cavern where the fumes were thicker. His team tried to reach him, but he apparently became dazed and wandered further inside. They saw him fall but were unable to retrieve him without suffering the same fate.
Day 25
We have lost nearly half of our number. Never has the Explorer’s Guild failed to complete a contract, but I am beginning to think that we may have to abandon this one and refund our client his payment. The wizard we hired has strengthened the glyphs with more expensive reagents twice now, and yet as we go deeper into the cavern system, our scouts are still encountering areas filled even more densely with foul fumes and poisons. Today, I watched one of them come back coughing up blood. He is with the healers now, but they tell me that it doesn’t look good. I’ll have to write a letter to his family. Sadly, I’ve become far too practiced at doing that recently.
Day 28
I have ordered the remaining men to pack up the camp. We are returning to Thronefast. Our last team went in this morning, equipped with our best protective masks, and treated leathers to shield their skin, and the strongest glyphs our wizard and alchemist could devise. Only one, Adan, returned. He told us of fumes so thick that they stifled the flames of the torches. Of mushrooms that released toxic spores when one drew close, and vines that reached out from the wall to ensnare men. Pools and jets of bubbling acid that burned through metal, leather, and flesh alike. Though they lost some, the team made it past these hazards and entered a large chamber.
There they found bones – bleached clean and shining blueish white in the glow of the mushrooms. The skeletons resembled humans, but smaller in stature, and with different features. Perhaps the makers of the stone huts. Growing from each skeleton, as if having fed on their flesh, were black mushrooms. In the center of the chamber was a great rift in the stone, and from it belched toxic gases in great multitudes. There were passages beyond, but as the team advanced, they heard a great stirring from within, as if something massive was waking from a slumber
The journey out was as dangerous as the journey in, and by the end, only Adan was left. The look in his eyes will haunt me for the rest of my life. Hollow, as if the hope and joy has been burned out of him by the toxic fumes.
Nothing but death lies within these caves. No mineral, no matter how precious, would be worth the cost to mine it. Nor do I think anyone wants to know what lies beyond that final chamber. Before we leave, we will place a warning marker outside for all who venture here in the future to stay away.
I see climates as just another gating mechanism. I haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise.
I guess creative gating is better than a basic key requirment? Maybe? At least with climates it is soft gating so there is a grey area there. Though then you have people trying to get through an area before they have enough gear to do so. At least a keyed area is a bit more transparent. That could be good or bad depending on how you view it I guess.
hell ye dat's what i'm talking about. this is how exploration should be. gear for the enviroment.
but it's probably going to be some lazy half baked glyph system that says congrats your acclimation score is above 9000 for ice. you can now go to these special localized areas for 9000+ for frosty places >.>
damn vandraad and keno are rubbing off on me.
philo said:I see climates as just another gating mechanism. I haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise.
I guess creative gating is better than a basic key requirment? Maybe? At least with climates it is soft gating so there is a grey area there. Though then you have people trying to get through an area before they have enough gear to do so. At least a keyed area is a bit more transparent. That could be good or bad depending on how you view it I guess.
Gear checks and spell checks (do you have someone with X spell) are also a form of gating. In fact all character progression is a form of gating to higher progression content.
If you notice glyphs will be off setting environmental debuffs. All you need to do is have a graduated debuff based on the level of glyphs you have to turn it from a hard gate to a soft gate. Then through player skill, determination and consumables you can overcome the debuffs rather than hard gating.
I actually anticipate that there will be locations where multiple overlapping negative environments exist and you will not be able to 100% negate all the effects. You will need to pick and choose which debuff is surmountable by your class and which you MUST ward against. Each class and player will approach it differently.
Rather than look at it as “gating” see it for what it is. Player vs Environment. You must first defeat the very land beneath your feet, the air you breathe, the flooding tempests and the fire that consumes all before you can challenge its masters. You do that through gear, preparation, active mitigation and sometimes discretion.
Drassen said:That is nearly the exact way I would want the system to be like, well written and evocative.
skyrim has a mod called frostfall that is basically what i would like except it's just for cold weather.
https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/11163/
here is the mod if you're interested
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EFJ_bwIKHQ
here is gameplay link
Trasak said:philo said:I see climates as just another gating mechanism. I haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise.
I guess creative gating is better than a basic key requirment? Maybe? At least with climates it is soft gating so there is a grey area there. Though then you have people trying to get through an area before they have enough gear to do so. At least a keyed area is a bit more transparent. That could be good or bad depending on how you view it I guess.
Gear checks and spell checks (do you have someone with X spell) are also a form of gating. In fact all character progression is a form of gating to higher progression content.
If you notice glyphs will be off setting environmental debuffs. All you need to do is have a graduated debuff based on the level of glyphs you have to turn it from a hard gate to a soft gate. Then through player skill, determination and consumables you can overcome the debuffs rather than hard gating.
I actually anticipate that there will be locations where multiple overlapping negative environments exist and you will not be able to 100% negate all the effects. You will need to pick and choose which debuff is surmountable by your class and which you MUST ward against. Each class and player will approach it differently.
Rather than look at it as “gating” see it for what it is. Player vs Environment. You must first defeat the very land beneath your feet, the air you breathe, the flooding tempests and the fire that consumes all before you can challenge its masters. You do that through gear, preparation, active mitigation and sometimes discretion.
How you describe it is still gating /shrug. I feel like you mostly repeated what I said but your tone suggests you are disagreeing? I did mention that at least there is a grey area there (soft gating). Just like standard gear in a normal encounter is gating like you mention, resist gear in an encounter that requires resist gear is also soft gating.
I'm not a fan of having to replace your "best", primary, gear with "lesser" gear in order to overcome gating mechanisms. It's not fun to lower your characters power (gear) in order to overcome some instated gear requirement.
It is what it is. I understand why these type of systems are instated this way. I will be forced to camp gear to acclimate to climates that is worse than my "primary" gear even if I'd prefer not to have to. It's just standard resist gear that is being overly emphasized imho.
Maybe I will go the alternative route and just run through progeny repeatedly and not run high end content that requires camping resist gear?
Trasak said:Gear checks and spell checks (do you have someone with X spell) are also a form of gating. In fact all character progression is a form of gating to higher progression content.
You are indeed correct, but why then when we already have all these other mechanisms in place to 'soft gate' you from given content do we need yet another one piled on top?
FFS, if you want the players to experience some environmental debuffs, etc then just put them in and be done with it. If you are too low a level the debuff will automatically be mor pronounced. If you don't have the appropriate level spells (damage, debuffs, buffs, whatever) then the effects will be more pronounced. If your gear does not have the necessary resist stats, hp, whatever then again, the effects will be more pronounced. Another layer is not needed.
philo said:How you describe it is still gating /shrug. I feel like you mostly repeated what I said but your tone suggests you are disagreeing? I did mention that at least there is a grey area there (soft gating). Just like standard gear in a normal encounter is gating like you mention, resist gear in an encounter that requires resist gear is also soft gating.
I'm not a fan of having to replace your "best", primary, gear with "lesser" gear in order to overcome gating mechanisms. It's not fun to lower your characters power (gear) in order to overcome some instated gear requirement.
It is what it is. I understand why these type of systems are instated this way. I will be forced to camp gear to acclimate to climates that is worse than my "primary" gear even if I'd prefer not to have to. It's just standard resist gear that is being overly emphasized imho.
Maybe I will go the alternative route and just run through progeny repeatedly and not run high end content that requires camping resist gear.
You are correct in that I do not think of glyphs as gating. Rather than gates to progression glyphs represent a part of progression. Think of them more as your Environmental Level rather than your character level. I would even go far as to suggest that glyphs need to be “hardened” through being used in combat in the environment they are intended to be used against before they become full effective. That way there is a designed fade in effect.
As the glyphs have their own paper doll it should not affect which pieces of your “adventuring gear” you are wearing so you will still be able to use your best. That is not to say you might not switch gear to deal with a debuff in some way (say in cold you gear more for speed because you know you are going to be slowed so your HP might be lower).
I think you are also making a lot of assumptions that there will be much of any camping for anything. Much more of chance encounters that can’t be predicted or long slogs through deliberate effort. Especially with the glyphs they will be crafter focused and so it will be more about collecting and working together with other players to achieve rather than battling both the RNG and boredom for a specific piece of gear.
Agreed Vandraad.
For a distintive, flagship, distinguishing, unique, or "pantheon difference" feature, so far? It looks like more gates. It smells like more gates. It moves like more gates. It sounds like more gates. Probably? More gates.
Yet, in every video they've shown it, it's not really a soft gate. More like a lethal gear check. I think people are being overly optimistic with T1-3, and not nearly skeptical enough with T4/T5, when it comes to how bad these effects really are.
Watch the videos. They die. There's none of this "Hey, we can survive in here for at LEAST 49 seconds". No no no. They die. Very very quickly. In the pressure or anaerobic one, (whatever the 2016 video was where they had to run through the dark purple sphere of death) I think they had less than 20 seconds before they died.
No partial mitigation talked about, enumerated, demonstrated, or shown. It was death or immunity.
If it's their intent that spells, gear, non-glyphs, and racials are of any actual value in the face of the lethal T4/T5 climates/atmospheres (levels 31-50) shown so far?
They should probably put that in a newsletter, video, stream, podcast, or devleoper post. :)
Well written Nephele...in fact it was too well written because I got wrapped up in the story and stopped thinking about how it represented the climate and acclimation systems, lol. Having gone back and re-read it a few times, I think it asks a few important questions. Can multiple tiers of an extreme climate exist within a single zone? I like how your story represents this.
Another thing that it made me think is about how the more time the group spent in the cave, their acclimation increased. The newsletter talked about the “Exposure” mechanic attributing to acclimation. As the group brought in reinforcements (the wizard arrived from Thronefast, but I guess the healer got lost along the way :), would they have been less able to withstand the climate having not spent as much time in the cave? How would this impact a group deep in an extreme climate seeking a replacement member?
Vandraad said:Trasak said:Gear checks and spell checks (do you have someone with X spell) are also a form of gating. In fact all character progression is a form of gating to higher progression content.
You are indeed correct, but why then when we already have all these other mechanisms in place to 'soft gate' you from given content do we need yet another one piled on top?
FFS, if you want the players to experience some environmental debuffs, etc then just put them in and be done with it. If you are too low a level the debuff will automatically be mor pronounced. If you don't have the appropriate level spells (damage, debuffs, buffs, whatever) then the effects will be more pronounced. If your gear does not have the necessary resist stats, hp, whatever then again, the effects will be more pronounced. Another layer is not needed.
Because the old mechanics are exactly that, old. You are looking at things in a binary nature. On or off and that’s it. Glyphs and the environment system represent many opportunities for horizontal progression as well as meaningful choices through gradient effects. This is especially true if you can never truly negate all negatives but must instead pick and choose what is most important.
Its deep, its tactical and frankly its something new. If you want old and busted WoW Classic launches today.
What they showed in the newsletter is the same as what they showed in the 2016 videos. On or off. Dead or immune. Binary. Why are people here and on reddit saying binary? Because it is, based on what they've shown.
Exposure is temporary. As in, pointless. (and I'm sure given how it's described, VERY temporary)
If there is always going to be an effect, then just have that be a feature of the zone. Why bother having players get another kind of resist, when they're going to be affected anyway?
Logically, there is no way someone is going to risk randomly losing the ability cast spells. 3/5 stacks? What? it's going to be 'nope' (from never going there) or immune.
Again, it's either a threat, or it's not. It's never going to be "kinda" a threat. You will be able to survive exactly a certain amount of time before you're dead or turned into a pointless waste of a group slot. If that time is less than the time you can kill a creature? Empty zone until immune. Unless you force players there, they will never voluntarily go there. For fun? There's no fun here..
It's so weird that, given 5+ years of coming up with better ideas, or gathering them from the community, they keep designing these impossible-to-balance knife-edge mechanics that aren't fun.
Trasak said:philo said:How you describe it is still gating /shrug. I feel like you mostly repeated what I said but your tone suggests you are disagreeing? I did mention that at least there is a grey area there (soft gating). Just like standard gear in a normal encounter is gating like you mention, resist gear in an encounter that requires resist gear is also soft gating.
I'm not a fan of having to replace your "best", primary, gear with "lesser" gear in order to overcome gating mechanisms. It's not fun to lower your characters power (gear) in order to overcome some instated gear requirement.
It is what it is. I understand why these type of systems are instated this way. I will be forced to camp gear to acclimate to climates that is worse than my "primary" gear even if I'd prefer not to have to. It's just standard resist gear that is being overly emphasized imho.
Maybe I will go the alternative route and just run through progeny repeatedly and not run high end content that requires camping resist gear.
You are correct in that I do not think of glyphs as gating. Rather than gates to progression glyphs represent a part of progression. Think of them more as your Environmental Level rather than your character level. I would even go far as to suggest that glyphs need to be “hardened” through being used in combat in the environment they are intended to be used against before they become full effective. That way there is a designed fade in effect.
As the glyphs have their own paper doll it should not affect which pieces of your “adventuring gear” you are wearing so you will still be able to use your best. That is not to say you might not switch gear to deal with a debuff in some way (say in cold you gear more for speed because you know you are going to be slowed so your HP might be lower).
I think you are also making a lot of assumptions that there will be much of any camping for anything. Much more of chance encounters that can’t be predicted or long slogs through deliberate effort. Especially with the glyphs they will be crafter focused and so it will be more about collecting and working together with other players to achieve rather than battling both the RNG and boredom for a specific piece of gear.
PM'd you trasak so not to get this thread off topic.
philo said:Trasak said:philo said:I see climates as just another gating mechanism. I haven't seen anything that suggests otherwise.
I guess creative gating is better than a basic key requirment? Maybe? At least with climates it is soft gating so there is a grey area there. Though then you have people trying to get through an area before they have enough gear to do so. At least a keyed area is a bit more transparent. That could be good or bad depending on how you view it I guess.
Gear checks and spell checks (do you have someone with X spell) are also a form of gating. In fact all character progression is a form of gating to higher progression content.
If you notice glyphs will be off setting environmental debuffs. All you need to do is have a graduated debuff based on the level of glyphs you have to turn it from a hard gate to a soft gate. Then through player skill, determination and consumables you can overcome the debuffs rather than hard gating.
I actually anticipate that there will be locations where multiple overlapping negative environments exist and you will not be able to 100% negate all the effects. You will need to pick and choose which debuff is surmountable by your class and which you MUST ward against. Each class and player will approach it differently.
Rather than look at it as “gating” see it for what it is. Player vs Environment. You must first defeat the very land beneath your feet, the air you breathe, the flooding tempests and the fire that consumes all before you can challenge its masters. You do that through gear, preparation, active mitigation and sometimes discretion.
How you describe it is still gating /shrug. I feel like you mostly repeated what I said but your tone suggests you are disagreeing? I did mention that at least there is a grey area there (soft gating). Just like standard gear in a normal encounter is gating like you mention, resist gear in an encounter that requires resist gear is also soft gating.
I'm not a fan of having to replace your "best", primary, gear with "lesser" gear in order to overcome gating mechanisms. It's not fun to lower your characters power (gear) in order to overcome some instated gear requirement.
It is what it is. I understand why these type of systems are instated this way. I will be forced to camp gear to acclimate to climates that is worse than my "primary" gear even if I'd prefer not to have to. It's just standard resist gear that is being overly emphasized imho.
Maybe I will go the alternative route and just run through progeny repeatedly and not run high end content that requires camping resist gear?
totally gating. the gradual debuff just lets me know that i'm
i never really liked the idea best in slot gear. bdo and wow does this.
it's interesting to have situationally best in slot gear. i can understand that it's tedious, especially if i am busy irl, i'd want to play a game not build a wardrobe (but i'm a hoarder so i prefer this).
think about it like this: scuba gear is the best gear to explore underwater. i can maybe take a harpoon and a knife.
it would be insane to take a rifle, grade iv ballistic armor, kevlar, sidearm, grenades and accesories for modern day warefare underwater.
vjek said:What they showed in the newsletter is the same as what they showed in the 2016 videos. On or off. Dead or immune. Binary. Why are people here and on reddit saying binary? Because it is, based on what they've shown.
Exposure is temporary. As in, pointless. (and I'm sure given how it's described, VERY temporary)
If there is always going to be an effect, then just have that be a feature of the zone. Why bother having players get another kind of resist, when they're going to be affected anyway?
Logically, there is no way someone is going to risk randomly losing the ability cast spells. 3/5 stacks? What? it's going to be 'nope' (from never going there) or immune.
Again, it's either a threat, or it's not. It's never going to be "kinda" a threat. You will be able to survive exactly a certain amount of time before you're dead or turned into a pointless waste of a group slot. If that time is less than the time you can kill a creature? Empty zone until immune. Unless you force players there, they will never voluntarily go there. For fun? There's no fun here..It's so weird that, given 5+ years of coming up with better ideas, or gathering them from the community, they keep designing these impossible-to-balance knife-edge mechanics that aren't fun.
Did we read the same newsletter? It did not sound anything like 'binary' to me.
The combinations and permutations of glyphs, race tolerances, natural acclimation, buffs, environment severity and possible multiple effects should mean there will be a lot of scope for more than just *can* or *can't*.
In essense it sounds like keying of some kind, yes, but much more interesting and nuanced. I used to hate not even being able to enter a zone just because I wasn't magically 'keyed'. At least with environmental effects I might be able to travel through a zoned I'm not 'keyed' for without dying, as long as I'm careful or I might even be able to adventure there for an hour at a time before feeling bad effects or if I'm high level for the zone and I'm buffed well, I might be able to adventure there just fine.
Let's face it, everything in game is 'keying' to some degree. The level of the monsters is the biggest 'gate' to get past. As long as the environmental effects have some sophistication - and it sounds like they do - then they will be a good addition.
After a few days, and initial reation, I compare it to underwater and deep sea diving.
With Scuba, flippers and mask, you move differently, a bit faster more horizontally, some weapons work better than others (harpoons? tridents? rapiers?) can be ranged.
with deap sea- in the same environment, you move differently still. Weighted boots, feet clunky and on the ground, long slow steps, full body armor for pressure, limited vision from the heavy helmet. Have to be slow in step so as to not stir up the muck and blind youself in your own underwater dust storm. the fight has to come to you.
But in either case, you are never fully acclimated to the environment. in other words you cannot move underwater like you move out of water, there is always some form of limitation because of the environment.
I see glyphs being like the various gear above: weighted belts, diving bells, flippers, mask. Things that help manage the environment but never fully overcome it.
Sure, the guy with maxxed water acclimation may be like the deep sea diver- and may be useless. but the snorkler with the mask and flippers only who can only go under for a little bit but is a good swimmer may have more range to scout or pull (lol the ranger of the sea, call him starkist not chicken!) but the deep sea diver will need scuba clad to hit the enemy at- ooh- different atmospheric levels.
What if the boss was a huge man-o-war jelly fish. snorklers at the top, scuba geared at upper mid and lower mid areas- pressure acclimated by those degrees, and at the base full of tendrils, the deep sea divers being slow and carefull not to stomp. The hitch being, the snorklers wish they had the armor up top to deal with the mass of the crown; and the deap sea divers wishing they had the nimbleness of the snorklers to deal with the multiple whipping tendrils.
I see climate less as a form of gating than as a way to have true horizontal progression.
It can require a whole new set of gear, the way a level-cap increase does, but with none of the new gear making you stronger in areas without that climate. Sit doesn't trivialize any content.
Isn’t Player versus Environment the ultimate Gameply versus Content ? Weren’t some of the same folks arguing for gameplay over content now speculating that this chance for depth in gameplay is a tired old undesired mechanic?
So, my question is this-What would make this a gameplay mechanic that you would enjoy engaging with?
P.S. Nice story Nephele
Grayel said:
So, my question is this-What would make this a gameplay mechanic that you would enjoy engaging with?
For me it's about the incentive. The carrot, the hook etc.
I'm not a big fan of horizontal progression. I would rather be forced to take a huge step back and restart at lvl 1 and advance vertically again than to spend a ton of time advancing horizontally where I don't feel like my character is gaining significant power increases.
Eventually though I know that all that horizontal progression does lead to significant power increases, that is the incentive that makes we want to go through the process. The raid loot that will be available after we farm the 100 items so that we can acclimate. The acclimation items themselves are just like farming any other key to enter a raid...though it sounds like there is a lot more of them and it will be a drawn out process.
I'm sure it will be fine either way. People play games for different reasons. Some people aren't as focused on improving their character as much as I am.
Grayel said:Isn’t Player versus Environment the ultimate Gameply versus Content ? Weren’t some of the same folks arguing for gameplay over content now speculating that this chance for depth in gameplay is a tired old undesired mechanic?
So, my question is this-What would make this a gameplay mechanic that you would enjoy engaging with?
By just having to deal with the environment, not gathering a bunch of glyphs that do away with the effects. That isn't egaging with the environment, that is avoiding it. Whatever effect(s) are present, I want to be constantly aware they are present and actively responding to them. That is gameplay.
Grayel said: ... So, my question is this-What would make this a gameplay mechanic that you would enjoy engaging with? ....
@philo and @ Vandraad, I appreciate the straight up answers. Not all mechanics will engage everyone equally to be sure.
@vjek, I really like most of your suggestions. The complexity and the resultant variety of ways to tackle the problem could be a positive to both designed groups and pugs.