I started off in EQ and I spent most of my time playing that game playing in 1st person. The only time I would change out to the third person view was during corpse runs, or if I was playing my enchanter and having to keep up with a large number of CCed targets.
Since this post is about immersion I won't go into the disadvantages that 1st person view poses towards gameplay, but I will say that back in the days when EQ originally launched game mechanics were much simpler than they are now and a player could easily utilize the 1st person perspective in a dungeon.
I left EQ towards the middle or end of 2004 and went to WoW. Since that time every MMO that I have gotten into has been played from a third person perspective.
Here is my opinion on 1st vs 3rd. I think that they both add different elements to immersive gameplay. The 1st person view allows you to see everything from the viewpoint of your character and allows a person to bond more with their character. It also gives the player a sense that they are right there in the middle of the action.
On the other hand, the 3rd person view allows a player to bond with the world that is around them. It allows players to see how their character interacts with the world around them, and it allows them to appreciate things that can't always be seen from the first person viewpoint such as armor design, mount design, character design, and character animation.
If I had to pick between 1st or 3rd person view without factoring in combat situations; I would probably pick 1st person half the time and then 3rd person half the time because of the different layers of immersion they both add. However, if I had to make a call based on combat 3rd person all the way as most modern games implement heavily scripted fights that offer little to no forgiveness for screwups.
From the streams with Cohh and other streamers, pantheon doesn't look like its breaking the mold of scripted combat and the penalties that come with that combat choice. Add that design choice with the fact they are planning to bring back death penalties... and I probably will rarely if ever chose to play in 1st person view.
I believe 1st person and 3rd person view has almost nothing to do with immersion, the story and the adventure you do, and all that is what is immersive, I mean who cares there going to be times your going to use both as you should but to think it actually takes away from the immersion that your feeling is absurd, if you honestly feel that it does than simply don't use it, but don't go and tell people that they are killing the immersion of the game for playing in 3rd person when they are doing nothing to you to ruin yours by doing it.
And as for peeking corners, look man weren't not playing DnD, I can't roll a listen check and see if I can hear them, or how many because if I could I would and would gather basically the same information as I did by utilizing 3rd to peek, but since mmos don't use it we have the next best things, but to think it's bush league is your opinion, but how else are we suppose to do it, simply body pull it and wish for the best?
Tanix said:Aayden said: By the pure definition of the word, it is immersion is defined as a deep mental involvement.Absorbing involvement is part of it, but the core of the word is to submerge into something, to envelop ones self in something. So, how immersion is used is realtive to the means to which it is applied. To be immersed into a character, then it would require you take on the elements of that characters perceptions, abilities, its existence in the world. In this case, that would mean 1st person as to immerse ones self in the character is to see through its eyes, how it sees according to its own view and limitations of.
In this sense, 3rd person by its function and use within this context is less immersive by the definition and constraints of the meaning of the word while first person is more immersive in that it places the person closer to the actual perception and limitations of the character being played.
I become just as immersed into a book regardless if it wrote in 1st person or 3rd person, just the same as I do when it comes to a video game, want to know why? Because regardless of how it's written/played it's a great experience for as long the book/game is great to read/play.
Thread cleaned up, off-topic replies removed.
Keep in mind that immersion is purely based on your own interpretation/opinion of how involved you feel. Camera views in a high fantasy game can help some feel more immersed, which camera view immerses you more will depend on you.
It is perfectly fine to have an opinion on a topic like this but please don't shut others down or deem your opinion to be "correct", there is no war to win here, just different perspectives and opinions on what immersion means to each of you. :)
Kilsin said:Thread cleaned up, off-topic replies removed.
Keep in mind that immersion is purely based on your own interpretation/opinion of how involved you feel. Camera views in a high fantasy game can help some feel more immersed, which camera view immerses you more will depend on you.
It is perfectly fine to have an opinion on a topic like this but please don't shut others down or deem your opinion to be "correct", there is no war to win here, just different perspectives and opinions on what immersion means to each of you. :)
Yep. Which is why I am glad that both are supported.
Kilsin said:Thread cleaned up, off-topic replies removed.
Keep in mind that immersion is purely based on your own interpretation/opinion of how involved you feel. Camera views in a high fantasy game can help some feel more immersed, which camera view immerses you more will depend on you.
It is perfectly fine to have an opinion on a topic like this but please don't shut others down or deem your opinion to be "correct", there is no war to win here, just different perspectives and opinions on what immersion means to each of you. :)
Very well said. Thanks, Kilsin.
I remember many occasions in EQ when 1st person made me feel like I was roleplaying a character in a neck brace. That said, I adored my experience in EQ. I think Pantheon 1st person will be rough because they're already talking about telegraphed graphics that you need to stay away from. If you're in 1st person, will you even be able to see the lightning at your feet or will you just unwittingly die.
Kilsin said:Thread cleaned up, off-topic replies removed.
Keep in mind that immersion is purely based on your own interpretation/opinion of how involved you feel. Camera views in a high fantasy game can help some feel more immersed, which camera view immerses you more will depend on you.
It is perfectly fine to have an opinion on a topic like this but please don't shut others down or deem your opinion to be "correct", there is no war to win here, just different perspectives and opinions on what immersion means to each of you. :)
overseer kilsin strikes again! i'm breaking too many rules... he might thanos snap me out of existence =(
stellarmind said:Kilsin said:Thread cleaned up, off-topic replies removed.
Keep in mind that immersion is purely based on your own interpretation/opinion of how involved you feel. Camera views in a high fantasy game can help some feel more immersed, which camera view immerses you more will depend on you.
It is perfectly fine to have an opinion on a topic like this but please don't shut others down or deem your opinion to be "correct", there is no war to win here, just different perspectives and opinions on what immersion means to each of you. :)
overseer kilsin strikes again! i'm breaking too many rules... he might thanos snap me out of existence =(
A bit disconcerting to see to be sure.
stellarmind said:Kilsin said:Thread cleaned up, off-topic replies removed.
Keep in mind that immersion is purely based on your own interpretation/opinion of how involved you feel. Camera views in a high fantasy game can help some feel more immersed, which camera view immerses you more will depend on you.
It is perfectly fine to have an opinion on a topic like this but please don't shut others down or deem your opinion to be "correct", there is no war to win here, just different perspectives and opinions on what immersion means to each of you. :)
overseer kilsin strikes again! i'm breaking too many rules... he might thanos snap me out of existence =(
Sooo, anybody with me on this? breaking rules --> 1st person, being snapped out of existence --> 3rd person....o.o
Baerr said:stellarmind said:Kilsin said:Thread cleaned up, off-topic replies removed.
Keep in mind that immersion is purely based on your own interpretation/opinion of how involved you feel. Camera views in a high fantasy game can help some feel more immersed, which camera view immerses you more will depend on you.
It is perfectly fine to have an opinion on a topic like this but please don't shut others down or deem your opinion to be "correct", there is no war to win here, just different perspectives and opinions on what immersion means to each of you. :)
overseer kilsin strikes again! i'm breaking too many rules... he might thanos snap me out of existence =(
Sooo, anybody with me on this? breaking rules --> 1st person, being snapped out of existence --> 3rd person....o.o
How is that true? I mean I know a ton of people who use 1st person I mean I do especially in dungeons with a ton of tight corners, 3rd person just doesn't work as well in those situations as 1st person does. Stop overreacting it doesn't change anything just like it didn't change when eq had 3rd person which it always did. So how is it that every mmo has had 3rd person but now all of a sudden 1st person is being snapped out of existence? Simply doesn't make sense.
Keadil said: I see a lot of people,and even devs talking about how 1st person is like looking through your characters eyes. It simply doesn’t do that. It looks very unnatural. It’s like watching bodycam footage. If you jump in a 1st person game, the character usually flails around in some unnatural way to show you the character does in fact have legs. 3rd person allows me to see a coherent world that makes sense. So, it feels much more immersive to me.
This.
Here's the least (in functionality) I would request before I would consider 1st person more:
- Option to turn off "body movements" as Keadil describes above
- Free camera movement in some way (in EQ, if you move the look around with the mouse in 1st person, the character follows in its movement instead just "moving the head"). I would totally be on board with some limitations like only being able to look 90 degree left or right to make it realistic.
- Ability to "lean forward" and look around corners as mentioned some posts above :)
- 3D sound and UI support to alert you of things going on behind you. Obviously this should not go overboard, but why not some hints like "you hear something behind you to the right", at least during downtime?
- Casters could get things like sentinel spells that give warnings when something sneaks up on them.
Keadil said: I see a lot of people,and even devs talking about how 1st person is like looking through your characters eyes. It simply doesn’t do that. It looks very unnatural. It’s like watching bodycam footage. If you jump in a 1st person game, the character usually flails around in some unnatural way to show you the character does in fact have legs. 3rd person allows me to see a coherent world that makes sense. So, it feels much more immersive to me.
Sounds more like a technical issue on character movement, animation, and avatar camera placement than any downside truely associated with 1st person to me. Also, a properly set field of view helps alot even without a more sophisticated avatar animation solution.