oneADseven said:FFXI wasn't a dying game when I started playing it. It was after the first or second expansion ... the "golden years" as referred to by many. I really don't understand why people think that everybody who participates would have some sort of elitist mentality. How is this any different than starting an alt? If a max-level player starts an alt they will probably have items and currency to help get their alt character going. Does this mean that they will only group with others who do the same? It doesn't exactly work like that. Pickings can be slim at times which is why it's important that the feature is actually utilized by the community. If anybody thinks it's a good idea to sit around spamming "Level 20 3'rd Generation Progeny Warrior LFM -- please only contact me if you are also 3'rd generation are higher." -- you do that and you're going to be sitting there doing nothing for extended periods of time and probably be viewed in a less than favorable light by the community. (Reputation matters!) People will group up where they can and when they can. They have already been through the leveling journey at least once ... odds are, they will be more prepared/experienced by default and be happy to fill their group up with the roles that are necessary in a group-centric / role-interdependent game. Believe it or not ... there are plenty of decent people out there who would be happy to group up with a newb and teach them the ropes.
I've seen twinks asking for twinks in groups only on P99, but it remains rare and less specific than 1st/2nd/3rd progeny. I'm not very interested in the feature but let's say why not.
The subclass system from FFXI absolutely qualifies as a "remort" system according to the description shared by Richard Bartle.
No, it is missing a major part in that:
Once your character has reached a certain level and often a certain experience point value, you can have the character "start over".
Being able to toggle back and forth isn't starting a character over.
I guess I can't help myself because we have had this conversation a dozen times before lol. You are good at talking ;)
Air quotes are interesting, especially when you consider some of the other context mentioned:
"There are many, many different ways that remort is implemented so I'm just going to cover some typical examples and ways it is used."
And then this quote from Kilsin:
"If you want to get an idea of how this kind of system works and why it is used, feel free to - with an open mind - research into the old Remort system from MUDs, it has been around for years and can be tailored to fit into any game successfully."
As mentioned previously, the sub-class system was a game-defining feature for FFXI and their developers achieved a high level of success when it came to accomplishing the "goals" behind remort. There is a difference between concept and implementation and it's important to remember that the concept needs to align with the core experience of an MMO rather than an MUD. Let's consider this:
"Almost universally you retain the skills and spells you have already learned, at the level you have learned them to"
Pantheon isn't going to adhere to this "almost universally" standard which means that everything else is fair game, as well.
And this:
"Obviously it works better on some games than others but there is a huge diversity in how the systems work so you're likely to find a game that is fun for you."
The only personal experience I have playing with any type of Remort system is in DDO and I do not have fond memories of that system.
Personally if this type of system forces us to restart our main at lvl 1 I think I will most likely avoid it. I would much rather keep adventuring with my main at higher lvls.
I would love to rather have the option of being able to while working on my alts to be able to adjust a slider on xp and faction gained to be sent to my main. This way I'm still working on bettering my main while lvling up my alts. I would feel this would perhaps be a better way to repopulate lower to mid lvl content without a lot of the race to remaxing of the lvl of players main characters that sounds like would come along with a system that forces folks to start at lvl 1 again.