Hello all, i was wondering how you felt about MMOs usually having one of two items that are the best.
So in lotro legendary weapons are the best gear, in my opinion it makes it quite boring, knowing you will never replace this legendary sword.
In wow the best geat is also legendary, or the tier set peices, if you take classic wow eventually everyone is going to be wearing the exact same gear.
My point is in pantheon, if theres is a last raid for an exspanion and it drops the best plate helm for tanks, every tank is going to want that helm and look the same, until better gear is added.
So would it be better if there was multiple items that were considered best in slot, each with different and equally challengeing ways of getting them.
Which brings me to transmog, i perosnally think transmog is one the most brilliant features in any mmo, i dont know who invented the concept but gg.
Its amazing having the freedom to dress however you like.
I really wish the classic wow community wasnt so against it, it has no negatives at all, but people argue it hides a persons power in world pvp.
How do you feel about transmogs and would you liek them in pantheon.
I would agree with you. I find the notion of BiS items ridiculously artificial, and quite frankly it is something that I would quite happily see binned. To be honest I hadn't heard the argument from PvP'ers about it hiding a persons power (probably because I don't really do much PvP), but to me it is a spurious argument. Surely, the true test of a PvP match is where you have no inkling of what your opponent can do - if you can glean information of their likely power and abilities from what they are wearing then it is not a really true test. I suspect the argument is formed by those who seek to gank others with the least risk to themselves - is that PvP, or just cowardice?
I highly doubt there will be one single best in slot item for all situations. I say this for many reasons, one of them being dungeons or raids located in various climates/atmospheres. As for itemization, the developers have stated they don't want a linear game with standard itemization where all of the best gear comes from one singular area.
Personally, I view transmog as a plague in the MMO genre.
Players should look how they were intended to by the designer. I compare it to putting a phone case, or skin, on a brand new phone. It changes the original design of the phone. Being able to see a passerby wearing items you've never seen before, or perhaps extremely rare items helps capture that authenticate MMORPG feeling.
The immersion that comes with gear is a very real thing. Many players, including myself, enjoy that feeling of going from rags to legendary dragon scale armor. A group of heroes should look and feel epic, rather than having a group of 4 epic looking heroes, and then a dude in a speedo wielding a pitchfork, and another dude wearing a dress and wielding a small stick and cardboard shield.
Think of it like this, Black Desert Online (and many other KRMMOs) have full character transmog. I find it much more rare, and I'm sure others will agree, to have people stop and inspect your gear. They see it at face value and think nothing of it. But what about a game like WoW, where every piece of gear can be transmogrified? Well, it follows the same concept, but to a slightly lesser extent. I still found myself uninterested in looking at people's gear. Having that giant legendary sword only a few people on the server were able to obtain should be shown off as a badge of honor.
I also remember when they introduced transmogging in WoW, a lot of people in the PvP community were angry because being able to physically see what piece of gear someone was wearing would help determine what rotation you were going to use.
That's just my two cents. I could continue to go on, but you get the point.
MyNegation said:no transmog in pantheon, it was agreed long ago in this community.
basically you look exactly like what you wear. this is not barbie dress up game.
But why?
Having the freedom to change clothes doesnt make an mmo barbie dress up game.
You could play pantheon your entire life and never need to aknowledge transmog.
Just because you dont like them, millions do.
If something have no negatives it should be added.
Pros.
1. Great for roleplayers.
2. Its great not having all players look the same.
3. Gives people more reasons to visit older content.
4. Rare items can be sold on auction and add to the economy.
5. Its realistic, people dont wear the same clothes everyday.
6. Its fun and interesting to see what people come up with, and if you dont want to change clothes dont, it doesnt affect you.
Cons
1. It may hide the true power of an enemy player in the world, but this is a crap arugment as anyone attacking you, assume theyre strong, especially if theyre in lvl 1 gear attacking you.
Literally no other cons.
I hope the devs see this post.
MyNegation said:no transmog in pantheon, it was agreed long ago in this community.
basically you look exactly like what you wear. this is not barbie dress up game.
I think you're a bit over generalizing your opinion. Nothing is "agreed" in a community that is constantly adding more and more members, and no "agreement" has any value until VR's official stance.
I'm, however, fine whatever would be the issue :
If no "transmog/reforge" I just hope not to look like a monkey in mixed pieces.
If there is dye channels, I'd by happy.
If there is "transmog or reforge appearance" I'd do my best to eithee farm items for look, or farm component to reforge my gear to look how I want to.
Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
Grimseethe said:Hello all, i was wondering how you felt about MMOs usually having one of two items that are the best.
VR has stated many times over the years that a critical design principle for Pantheon is avoiding the 'best in slot for everything' situation that we see in so many other games. Instead, there VR is working towards gear that is better for use in particular situations/environments/atmospheres. There should not be a one-stop solution to work for everything. That helm which is great in a cold weather environment where you're dealing with a frigid atmosphere would be a terrible helm to wear when fighting underwater in a high-pressure atmosphere. Thus mutilple sets of gear will be needed and switched out depending upon where you are and what you are facing.
Grimseethe said:But why?
If something have no negatives it should be added.
Literally no other cons.
I hope the devs see this post.
You don't see the negatives. That doesn't mean they don't exist. Game developers dont just add whatever they want to games. Hell if it was easy to make the MMO you'd already be playing it. Consider they do see your post and that if they haven't already discussed it, they will. They really are reading these forums. I sigh every time I read one of the "just add it to the game" posts. Let's keep suggesting ideas and what we'd like to see, sure, but don't think that things are easily just added to the game.
Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
THIS is what Brad has stated is the plan at the time (in either a stream or another transmorg thread, I can't remember) this works for me as I'll have it turned off.
I really hope they track how many players have it on and off though, it would be really interesting to know, and could be valuable to them to tell the direction of the game in the future.
Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
^^THIS
Everyone wins, people can transmog if they want to look cool, and the rest of us get to ignore it.
MauvaisOeil said:I think you're a bit over generalizing your opinion. Nothing is "agreed" in a community that is constantly adding more and more members, and no "agreement" has any value until VR's official stance.
this topic has been discussed to the death and locked by Kilsin four years ago
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2126/appearance-gear-and-weapons/view/page/1
as far as we know-
there might be "cosmetic gear option" for a special cosmetic items for RP purposes that you find or get rewarded (like in LOTRO), but not a "transmog" type where you can turn any item to cosmetic item (like in WOW or GW2).
From the FAQ:
4.8 What kind of equipment visualization can we expect to see on characters?
The game world will contain thousands if not tens of thousands of items. That said, there can never be a 1:1 ratio between what you are specifically wearing and how you appear to other players. What you’re wearing does show off what you’ve accomplished, how high level you are, and what adventures you have undertaken to inspire others. Cosmetic gear will also be available, with players selecting how they want to view your character by toggling between adventure and cosmetic.
This will likely function similar to the "Appearance Gear" feature from EQ2, based on how it has been described. Once a player "earns" a given piece of gear, they can then use the "appearance" of that item without having to equip it in a standard slot. It basically functions as an appearance override. If other players want to ignore that override then they will have the option to toggle appearance gear on/off.
Tanix said:Other then wasting the resources to design, implment and maintain, I don't see a problem with it, BUT under one condition.
I can turn it off and see you as your original item is. To you, you look as you want to modify the gear to, but to me... you look exactly like the gear that droped.
This way, I see you according to your accomplishments. Your gear looks exactly as it was designed.
It is a win/win, you get to look as you like and I see you as you really are. /shrug
I think Tanix is spot on with this one. They could add this just like they had the option to view the new character models for different races around the Lulcin expansion in EQ when they redid the graphics (or it may had been around the end of Velious). I liked some models like the Ogre and humans, but kept some classic... I knew I looked goofy to some people, but I didn't care as long my character looked cool to me (and some people that had the same settings as me). If this game doesn't allow modification of item appearance I can safely say that I will not be playing it if I am forced to look identical to every other of the same race/role. Its my opinion that VR will have some way to change appearance of worn items even if its just dye.
IMO this is one area the world of warcfraft did the best, IN THE BEGINNING anways, Original WoW, Burning Crusade, Even a little bit of wrath did excellent with the loot system, I dont think there should be tiny amounts of loot, but i also dont think there should be an over abundance, whenever i think of non specific items per slot, i think about current wow loot, the division 2, anthem, where loot is abundant but mostly worthless, I like to have a set goal and the means to reach that goal on my time and terms and not some automated random system, I like this mob drops this item, and if i want that item i kill that mob until i get it and i have achieved a goal and can move on, or come back to help someone else get the item, and aimless game will bore me in a matter of hours.
When i think MMORPG, I think Class, Items, Levels, Progression, And those all have to mean something, I like gated content, Long quests for items, If it sucks to do but the reward is great you have to do it, Thats an accomplishment on the developers end, and in turn one for me.
Transmog......is a big fat NO for me, you shouldnt be able to cover up your items, you wear what you equip.
I love FF14. I think its a great MMO for that kind of MMO. It does transmogs very well. That being said I don't want transmogs in Pantheon. I want to look at someone and be able to pick up the gear they have just by looking, without inspecting.
I would be okay with a sort of saved wardrobe function so when you're in town, or RP'n, or whatever, you can click a button and change gear to a non combat set.
Grimseethe said:But why?
Having the freedom to change clothes doesnt make an mmo barbie dress up game.
You could play pantheon your entire life and never need to aknowledge transmog.
Just because you dont like them, millions do.If something have no negatives it should be added.
Pros.1. Great for roleplayers.
2. Its great not having all players look the same.
3. Gives people more reasons to visit older content.
4. Rare items can be sold on auction and add to the economy.
5. Its realistic, people dont wear the same clothes everyday.
6. Its fun and interesting to see what people come up with, and if you dont want to change clothes dont, it doesnt affect you.
Cons
1. It may hide the true power of an enemy player in the world, but this is a crap arugment as anyone attacking you, assume theyre strong, especially if theyre in lvl 1 gear attacking you.
Literally no other cons.
I hope the devs see this post.
lets look at your list
pros
1) well I would say just the opposite. rollpayers want to get in to the game and to see a fighter looking like a ballerina wall tanking a boss is not that.
2) yes players look similar and you can normally tell the twinks from the experienced players with knowing that some are no drop items
3) no it don’t
4) don’t change anything
5) true in modern time theres no way a knight had more than 1 set of armor
6) I call it more of a eye sore most of the time
cons
1) true it also hides everyone’s else power
2) you left somethings out. More work on the devs part to get the game out.
3) more load on the servers
your List 6 vs 1 for transmog
looks to me more like 0 vs 9
The game, the challenge, the experience, the competition; all of it is cheapened when you let players equip "the best item" and also assign it any graphic they want. If you want a certain look, wear the item that gives that look. If you want the best items, wear the best items.
This falls into the min/max category and it crushes me to even think that is going to be part of this game. Why can't players just enjoy the journey?
How does transmog ruin immersion? Lmao. The arguements people come up with. Most transmog systems only allow you to choose from other items IN THE GAME.
I personally dont care about it, I've never cared what my character looks like due to always playing at max camera distance, but to each their own.
Also, there will always be BiS items. This isnt something designed by the developers. They dont come in and say hey. This boss needs to drop the best item for warriors. The players determine what combination of stats provides the best dps/healing/tanking boost and create a list based on that. Theres no way to remove this.
Even if you create loot systems with variable secondary stats like wow or diablo 3, you still end up with specific classes benefitting more from specific stats...which leads to a BiS list.
Transmog has always annoyed me. I have no logical reason why.
Its like turkey bacon. It aint bacon so why even pretend.
I get it though, the cosmetics are important to some players and it really doesnt hurt me any so (shrug) have your turkey bacon for all I care.
There are downsides to transmog, but I think it adds much more than it detracts. The idea that you should look like the equipment you're using makes sense in a way. A lot of the sentiment behind the anti-transmog community is that your appearance should reflect the amoutn of effort you put into your character, but the issue is when you end up having BIS gear from mixed sets, sometimes including lower armor proficiencies and your character ends up looking like a clown. For example, in vanilla WoW you often saw paladins and shaman wearing a mix of plate/mail gear and cloth healing gear. That's really not ideal. More effort actually ends up making your character look worse, and that's contrary to the whole point of not having transmog.
On the flip side, enabling transmog opens up more reasons for people to go out and do content. It allows players to develop a unique look for their character.