I've got couple ideas that could be considered for implementation into the game. I was wondering what are your thoughts about them - which of them would be nice to have and which of them definitely shouldn't make it into the game (and why). As time progresses I may add more ideas (I may not even write down all of current ones as it's getting late), but for now several of them are:
1) Party combos - 3 party members could perform an action - depending on classes involved with different effects - with really long cooldown and with the need of good timing (perhaps when failed connected with great risk).
2) Party level - as the group members gain their individual exp - the group would progress into higher tiers with some minor bonuses to drop rate, exp rate etc. which would add even more flavour to the guild/friend interactions - kind of like keeping the flame alive ... and as long as the group is not disbanded, the bonuses would be preserved.
3) Debuffer class - Occultist https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/10402/-/view/post_id/200386
4) "Race" - every necromancers favourite: skeleton (nothing new but still xP)
5) Expansion idea: Faith - so we know that the gods will exist in Terminus and probably (?) at character creation we will be forced to choose one of them for rp purposes as well as for certain bonuses. I do however hope that in the future we will be able to change our faith as we dive deep into the lore and secrets of the gods. Being the follower of such entity would provide us with separate questlines - that would award us "faith tiers" which in turn would provide us with Diety specific abilities and more importantly with ability to unlock certain dungeons or their parts. Separately "devotion" system would allow us to donate currency,do repeatable quests,kill enemies of given Diety in order to appease it and be given something in return - permanent passive, long buff, eq enhancement and so on.
My only concern on number 1 is its implementation and becoming nothing more than a DPS addition, or if it has more effects (ie like LoTRO), then the game gets designed around the "combo" mechanic rather than groups individual classes.
As for number 2, I think it is counter productive to the games focus personally. The game is about the journey, not the end game as most games today are about. Mechanics like bonus exp, drop rate increasers, etc.. cheapen that process, turn the game into a fast spam gimmick to farm items and power to max. I mean, I look it this way "Grats, you just did really well... now you can move through the levels faster!"... that seems to suggest that the "journey" is an inconvenience and if I play really well, I will be rewarded by getting through it faster.
Tanix said:My only concern on number 1 is its implementation and becoming nothing more than a DPS addition, or if it has more effects (ie like LoTRO), then the game gets designed around the "combo" mechanic rather than groups individual classes.
In FFXIV the limit break system is like this, but it's not always just a dps skill. Towards the start of new content a lot of times the tanks use it for the group to survive a huge attack, but as folks get more use to the fight and better gears it tends to be a dps using it later. Also depending on the dps that uses it depends on the attack, melee is a one hit, casters is a circular aoe, ranged is a straight line aoe, tanks is a damage mitigation, and healers is a big heal, or big heal with mass raise if it's full power.
mallanb81 said:In FFXIV the limit break system is like this, but it's not always just a dps skill. Towards the start of new content a lot of times the tanks use it for the group to survive a huge attack, but as folks get more use to the fight and better gears it tends to be a dps using it later. Also depending on the dps that uses it depends on the attack, melee is a one hit, casters is a circular aoe, ranged is a straight line aoe, tanks is a damage mitigation, and healers is a big heal, or big heal with mass raise if it's full power.
Honestly I wish you were right but it's really not that "convenient". FFXIV is designed around boss enrages forcing everyone to DPS at their most (even tanks and healers). Tank Limit break is only ever used when it's forced or the whole group would be killed (scripted big attack) while the healer's limit break is here for easy content rid of any timer when players dies is chain.
While there is some sense of flexibility (hold it until there is no risk to wipe) in the "easy and non challenging" part of the game, the other side of the coin has LB beeing used 95% of the time for DPS purpose, and 5% for scripted big damage mechanics on everyone. Tanks have enough cooldowns to survive withouth wasting the bar.
Even outside of theses contents, the limit break is used 2/3 of the time for DPS purpose, and 1/3 for close to wipe recoveries. The flexibility is an illusion, as long as an ability has the power the shorten a fight, it will allways be used because time means more attemps or the possibility to do something else afterward.
Over all I think they are all good ideas Hegenox. I'll throw on my take.
1) I like synergies, especially between classes. The concept of the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In terms of game balance and encouraging grouping over soloing each ability could have a base effect. Then when in the presence of another effect that only comes from another class the ability is bigger, stronger or slightly shifted. Some abilities will be the “leader ability” that doesn't expand but counts as the catalyst for the other abilities to grow so even the order abilities are applied will matter. Step two of this is make some group content for a full group that doesn't use synergies well as the easy content and a second set that requires a very high level of master of class synergies to manage to defeat.
2) Something I keep seeing hinted at and I don't know if it will be implemented in any real way is the adventuring party. Rather than just being in a functional group you can also belong to an adventuring part in addition to a guild and maybe a family clan and a trade skill union while we are at it. The adventuring party will be one of the tools that help your character stay with your group while your offline and keep your online time highly efficient. Brad has mentioned something about being able to call group members to you from around the world. The adventuring party could be one of those tools that limit who you can call. Taking your idea into this adventuring party the party itself could have a roster and gain experience that can then be spent on bonuses for the adventuring party. Any time 3 or more members of an adventuring party are in a group they gain the Aps bonuses for themselves. Leaving an adventuring party and joining another will require a grace period to gain the new parties bonuses.
3) Debuffer in my mind worlds well as a more crowd control focused party role and I could see something like a necromancer or occultist being a generally debuff focused CC class, personally against a Necromancer being a DPS class we already have enough of those.
4) Skeleton is the only one on this list I find problematic and thats only because Pantheon as a world setting has the primary villains being Renevants which are a form of undead. I believe in this setting undead in general will be difficult to have as a player race.
5) I anticipate that the long term world narrative across the releases and expansions will involve a lot about the local gods or lack there of. I am not the best at remembering all the lore but the Diety Pantheon, not sure if that should be a trade mark or a pun, is very setting specific.
I agree with #1. I love class synergies. It doesn't have to be quite as complex, but something like GW2's combo field system would be an interesting addition. It keeps things more flexible while still having an impact on combat.
Your #5 idea is interesting. Would need some specific tuning toward the lore of Terminus, but I love RP flavor. :)
MauvaisOeil said:mallanb81 said:In FFXIV the limit break system is like this, but it's not always just a dps skill. Towards the start of new content a lot of times the tanks use it for the group to survive a huge attack, but as folks get more use to the fight and better gears it tends to be a dps using it later. Also depending on the dps that uses it depends on the attack, melee is a one hit, casters is a circular aoe, ranged is a straight line aoe, tanks is a damage mitigation, and healers is a big heal, or big heal with mass raise if it's full power.
Honestly I wish you were right but it's really not that "convenient". FFXIV is designed around boss enrages forcing everyone to DPS at their most (even tanks and healers). Tank Limit break is only ever used when it's forced or the whole group would be killed (scripted big attack) while the healer's limit break is here for easy content rid of any timer when players dies is chain.
While there is some sense of flexibility (hold it until there is no risk to wipe) in the "easy and non challenging" part of the game, the other side of the coin has LB beeing used 95% of the time for DPS purpose, and 5% for scripted big damage mechanics on everyone. Tanks have enough cooldowns to survive withouth wasting the bar.
Even outside of theses contents, the limit break is used 2/3 of the time for DPS purpose, and 1/3 for close to wipe recoveries. The flexibility is an illusion, as long as an ability has the power the shorten a fight, it will allways be used because time means more attemps or the possibility to do something else afterward.
this is a pretty good picture of what will probably happen.
1) I feel this would damage grouping / party composition. It would more than likely set some classes/party compositions artificially ahead of others and the "cool" factor of whatever actions would quickly fade into just some forced mechanic.
2) This seems to go against promoting being social and making new friends/meeting new people as you would be disadvantaged by branching out.
5) This seems like something we should leave to VR. Each race has an entirely different set of gods and some (gnome) seem to have none at all. Also, given the lore it wouldn't make sense to me that any special bonuses should be granted due to piety/faith given that the gods cannot influence or interact with the world due to the Celestial Boundary/Dragon Accord.
I like the idea as this reminds me of Heroic Opportunities in Everquest 2 https://eq2.fandom.com/wiki/Heroic_Opportunities
Most people did not use them because it required players to know about them and it took some efforts but it was fun. Groups were stronger and more efficient when they used Heroic Opportunities, sometimes, it made a difference between succesfully killing a Boss Named or not with your group.
Ithaca said:I like the idea as this reminds me of Heroic Opportunities in Everquest 2 https://eq2.fandom.com/wiki/Heroic_Opportunities
Most people did not use them because it required players to know about them and it took some efforts but it was fun. Groups were stronger and more efficient when they used Heroic Opportunities, sometimes, it made a difference between succesfully killing a Boss Named or not with your group.
I was thinking the same thing. They were a nice way of promoting teamwork.
Good ideas here! I would worry about #2 being exploited, but wouldn’t write it off. Perhaps it just depends on what the benefits are.
I feel like there will be some class synergy built into the system already. We will just have to see how things play out there. I wouldnt mind some sort of alt advance leadership aa's so that groups can benefit by having a certain/same group leader, but it would depend on implementation (these have been done in previous mmo's) - i don't think exp gain levels should be messed with. There would be a lot of abuse to a system like that.
I choose not to comment on anything other than 1 and 2.
