Would you like to see the addition of one-drop items? Instead of Trivial Loot Code (TLC) which excludes higher level characters from farming lower level zones, one-drop items would only ever drop for a character once. They can come for it at any level they want, whether 1 or 100. If you sell it, gift it, destroy it, or part with it for any reason, your only chance of getting it back would be to buy one. One drop items would be more valuable for this reason. It might also prevent one player from dominating a camp around the clock, because it would remove the financial reward. This would then open those camps up for people who enjoy earning gear through adventures with their friends.
I understand the point but disagree with it. Farming for loot is enjoyable and profitable. Unfortunately people are greedy and ruin it for others by perma camping. I dont think this is a good fix though, lock outs, though also not a favorable approach, would be better in my opinion. Farm til loot item X drops, locked from it dropping for 3 days.. theres always gonna be a work around every single thing done to try to fix problems. Maybe people should just stop being greedy buttholes! Fat chance huh?
It's an interesting concept and one that I have not thought about before, really. It feels like one of those things that might work "on paper" but in practice might not actually accomplish the goal that it's really going for. I'll try to explain:
While it's true that some loot proliferation can be traced back to farming, even if you remove the farming from the equation, you'll still end up with loot proliferation over time. The reason for that is that you'll have people acquiring items that they themselves don't use - or, that they *will* use, but then later replace.
So, if the goal of this system is to cut down on loot profileration in the economy, I don't think it actually goes far enough. Plus, how do you handle the situation where someone wants to help another player get the drop that they already have? Unless you're envisioning personalized loot for every member of the group (which potentially increases loot proliferation) that could lead to some messy situations. "Sorry Bob, I want to help you but if I go the thing you want won't drop."
I think instead of doing this, when it comes to loot tables, the emphasis needs to be on rarity and variety. We all keep expecting EQ-style farmable named mobs, but I don't know that we should be. Pantheon has an opportunity to change the way that looted items are delivered and help mitigate the problems of static camps and farming. Things like:
1) Setting up shared loot tables for minor named mobs so that any of them can drop a wide variety of items, instead of always droppng the same two or three things.
2) Providing multiple potential spawn points for minor named mobs to make them less predictable in where they may show up.
3) Avoiding the use of static timers for named mob respawns but instead using placeholders or "lottery" spawning for minor named mobs, and triggered spawns for major bosses
4) For major bosses, preparing a big and diverse loot table such that you never quite know what you'll get but it will probably be interesting.
5) Insuring that while loot tables have usable equipment, they also have things like special crafting materials, spell/skill upgrade fragments, or collection pieces.
My point here is that if VR sets things up right, we won't have a game where static camps (for items are really a thing. Instead we'll have a game where groups head off into dungeons just to see what they can get from whatever they run across, or maybe to try and spawn the big bad for his sweet loot. Even if the same amount of loot is generated (and there's no reason to think it wouldn't be), that loot will be a much more diverse set, slowing proliferation.
Some people may like what I have said and some people may hate it because it clashes with their worldview, but I think it's important that we don't make assumptions about how we're going to spend our time in Terminus. VR has the opportunity here to give us all a newer, different, more compelling adventuring experience than we've had before, and I hope they use that opportunity well.
Lore items were this to a degree, but when someone got the lore item that sold for a decent profit they usually left group to go sell it and then once sold find another group. However, one drop items seems a little more extreme. I have a feeling that this would probably break groups up quickly to the same degree of lore items. However, I am not opposed to some one drop items, like I am not opposed to regular drops, no drops, and lore drops.
Thumbs up on Nephs post. I think any given loot item should be slightly spread amongst a few mobs. You can always minorly tweek better and worse drop rates between mobs 1,2, and 3. Spreading out a drop to some variety of mobs does not mean every single mob in the game has the potential to drop the specific item, but it does mean more than one mob type drops a particular item. Are people really programmed to think that there is only 1 right way to create the loot system?
I just think on the grand scale of things its the most solid loot system, have you thought about how it might effect the economy? Or, maybe how it affects players? The only way I see a different loot system working is if the dungeons/encounters are all instanced based, which again is going to ruin a major social aspect of the game of which you might not care about, and again those game exhist in the masses currently. And for the record people are programmed they have experience this loot system, and have experienced many others, and resort back to this one, I think most of the people interested in this game currently have been around the world of MMO's at this point. Ive already pointed out why the suggested system wont work but ill say it again. No one wants to spend time killing stuff for no apparent reason, your suggested system implys that the loot from the current zone will be out leveled and out dated by tomorrow, which if that is true then that means the content is also outdated by tomorrow, and if content is outdated on a daily basis, well then the 10 years the developers have into this game is going to leave the player with 5 months of content at 15 bucks a month which is 75 dollars x 2 million so that 150 million dollars which if they just wanted a paycheck would be awesome but if they actually wanted to be happy and proud and even cared about their work then they are going to want more out of it, i mean 150 million say they have 10 people on their team which seems low, thats 15mill divided by 10 years, thats 150 grand a year if its split evenly, i dunno man, its imperative their items hold value, which means they need to be good, and they need to be scarce, having some woopty doo mob drop an item of significance just wont help them or the players experience, and the thing is they know this already, they also have been in the market long enough to know what a million dollar product and a billion dollar product looks like.
Nephele said: ... I think instead of doing this, when it comes to loot tables, the emphasis needs to be on rarity and variety. We all keep expecting EQ-style farmable named mobs, but I don't know that we should be. Pantheon has an opportunity to change the way that looted items are delivered and help mitigate the problems of static camps and farming. Things like:1) Setting up shared loot tables for minor named mobs so that any of them can drop a wide variety of items, instead of always droppng the same two or three things.
2) Providing multiple potential spawn points for minor named mobs to make them less predictable in where they may show up.
3) Avoiding the use of static timers for named mob respawns but instead using placeholders or "lottery" spawning for minor named mobs, and triggered spawns for major bosses
4) For major bosses, preparing a big and diverse loot table such that you never quite know what you'll get but it will probably be interesting.
5) Insuring that while loot tables have usable equipment, they also have things like special crafting materials, spell/skill upgrade fragments, or collection pieces.
My point here is that if VR sets things up right, we won't have a game where static camps (for items are really a thing. Instead we'll have a game where groups head off into dungeons just to see what they can get from whatever they run across, or maybe to try and spawn the big bad for his sweet loot. Even if the same amount of loot is generated (and there's no reason to think it wouldn't be), that loot will be a much more diverse set, slowing proliferation. ...
If they even did half of this, I would be jumping for joy. I suspect though, given their public demonstrations to date have included exactly zero of these, and no public statement in the past 4 years gives any indication they plan to implement any of them, we're going to be dealing with the opposite of these great ideas.
vjek said:Nephele said: ... I think instead of doing this, when it comes to loot tables, the emphasis needs to be on rarity and variety. We all keep expecting EQ-style farmable named mobs, but I don't know that we should be. Pantheon has an opportunity to change the way that looted items are delivered and help mitigate the problems of static camps and farming. Things like:1) Setting up shared loot tables for minor named mobs so that any of them can drop a wide variety of items, instead of always droppng the same two or three things.
2) Providing multiple potential spawn points for minor named mobs to make them less predictable in where they may show up.
4) For major bosses, preparing a big and diverse loot table such that you never quite know what you'll get but it will probably be interesting.
If they even did half of this, I would be jumping for joy. I suspect though, given their public demonstrations to date have included exactly zero of these, and no public statement in the past 4 years gives any indication they plan to implement any of them, we're going to be dealing with the opposite of these great ideas.
Imo, big random loot tables are for world drops, not bosses. Doing that erodes the epic feeling of killing a boss as well as making specific goals more watered down. If the Ghoul Lord drops 14 different items then none of them matter as much as if he dropped 2 or 3. That kind of prestige and importance of mobs and loot is paramount. It makes areas and mobs and camps iconic. I would also say that it greatly diminishes important social aspects of the game. Catering loot so that everyone has a reason to do an encounter means that people won't be banding together to help a friend get something without any reward in return. That's crazy important when it comes to building long term friendships. Additionally it erodes a healthy competitive aspect of the game. If named mobs drop random stuff they just straight up mean less, imo. Was orc hill in crushbone a cesspool? Yes, but it was also awesome. That gets taken away when we implement too many mechanics like this.
A couple things. 1 item per character can be exploited easily by having multiple accounts. If its locked per character I can just have an alt sitting by to loot it. If its per account that is a terrible system because if you ever level a second character you're ensuring you don't get any possible drops you may have already earned on another character. This system would reward those who pay for multiple accounts. This would also drive the prices of items through the roof. If I can only loot an item once I'm going to charge a premium for it, because I'll never get to loot this item again. This would wreck havoc on the economy.
As far as global loot tables they don't typically go over well. While locking a single item to a single rare spawn mob creates perma camping it does allow players the ability to hedge their bets on items they can get. If I need a haste item, I can go camp a spot that drops one. The set loot table increases the odds of me getting that item because the possible loot pool isn't as large. This allows players to have some control over their upgrades, without having to purchase them.
I think a better solution is to have the same item, or same stats and change the name for lore reasons, on multiple bosses. It allows players to actively work towards the items they want while reducing the issue of the single spawn being camped 24/7.
Diablo 3 has world loot, for the most part, but its offset by the sheer amount of items you get. I'd assume a game of Pantheon's nature wont have the raining of loot like this. Contrast that to Anthem, hot garbage, but they also did a world loot system with much rarer drops. The community absolutely hates it.
EppE gets it, and not only will it hurt the economy but whos ever going to do that dungeon again if there isnt anything there for them? They already are making it easier to level which means the world is already that much smaller -_-. See everquest ruled because you could get an item at level 20 that would be good until level 50 or you would at least wear it until then, if any system needs to be under the microscope i would say it should be crafting and crafting materials as this is where EQ as kind of crappy, but it did make the items you did craft super valuable....i think the richest person was the first max level jewel crafter on our server, but also when the other proffessions started picking up with later expansions it was pretty cool...it just took too long for them to get them in order.
Riqq said:EppE gets it, and not only will it hurt the economy but whos ever going to do that dungeon again if there isnt anything there for them? They already are making it easier to level which means the world is already that much smaller -_-. See everquest ruled because you could get an item at level 20 that would be good until level 50 or you would at least wear it until then, if any system needs to be under the microscope i would say it should be crafting and crafting materials as this is where EQ as kind of crappy, but it did make the items you did craft super valuable....i think the richest person was the first max level jewel crafter on our server, but also when the other proffessions started picking up with later expansions it was pretty cool...it just took too long for them to get them in order.
And the other side of that is that you could be level 40 and find an upgrade that you'd wear in a level 25 dungeon, thus effectively expanding the size of the world.
Keno Monster said:Riqq said:EppE gets it, and not only will it hurt the economy but whos ever going to do that dungeon again if there isnt anything there for them? They already are making it easier to level which means the world is already that much smaller -_-. See everquest ruled because you could get an item at level 20 that would be good until level 50 or you would at least wear it until then, if any system needs to be under the microscope i would say it should be crafting and crafting materials as this is where EQ as kind of crappy, but it did make the items you did craft super valuable....i think the richest person was the first max level jewel crafter on our server, but also when the other proffessions started picking up with later expansions it was pretty cool...it just took too long for them to get them in order.
And the other side of that is that you could be level 40 and find an upgrade that you'd wear in a level 25 dungeon, thus effectively expanding the size of the world.
It doesn't it makes it smaller, I can say in Eq, for loot their is like what maybe 7 zones in total that you actually have to go to get loot and like 5 zones to get to level 50 and with a game that has like total I dunno 50 zones or so and only 12 of them mean anything sounds bad. Like you have Solb, Lguk, Uguk, and a few more other people's actually went to to get exp or gear, I mean granted this is with after knowing the game in n out but if the gear progressively got better by level than you would also go to the next teir of dungeons to get better gear for the teir after that, not I simply got this lvl 20 items and I wore it up to lvl 50 comfortably the entire time cuase nothing compared to it, you make it seem like a lvl 40 going backwards makes the world bigger but if a lvl 20 got that item he might not of visited some of the areas he went to simply cuase the gear there simply wasn't worth it.
I always liked the idea I could go camp items with my higher level characters. Whether I needed money, or was looking to twink out a new character, I enjoyed the freedom to go back to some other zones and farm gear. It gave me a chance to break the grind and minotiny of trying to level so that I can get that next piece of cheese. That being said it also allows the community to band together. I don't remember how many times in Crushbone in EQ you either had people unhappy some high level guy was there smoking the tower taking all the Dragoon Dirks, or they were thrilled that the higher level guy came in and buffed them and gave them the Crushbone Tunic they wanted so badly but couldn't kill to get.
Really depends on the community and the reaction people have and how they are treated on whether or not this could be a good thing or a bad thing. I gotta tell ya, I don't think I woul have ever made it out of EQ past level 10 if it hadn't been for someone giving me a Dragoon Dirk they got off that Ambassador D'vinn. My rogue was a joke until I got that thing.
Moloka said:I always liked the idea I could go camp items with my higher level characters. Whether I needed money, or was looking to twink out a new character, I enjoyed the freedom to go back to some other zones and farm gear. It gave me a chance to break the grind and minotiny of trying to level so that I can get that next piece of cheese. That being said it also allows the community to band together. I don't remember how many times in Crushbone in EQ you either had people unhappy some high level guy was there smoking the tower taking all the Dragoon Dirks, or they were thrilled that the higher level guy came in and buffed them and gave them the Crushbone Tunic they wanted so badly but couldn't kill to get.
Really depends on the community and the reaction people have and how they are treated on whether or not this could be a good thing or a bad thing. I gotta tell ya, I don't think I woul have ever made it out of EQ past level 10 if it hadn't been for someone giving me a Dragoon Dirk they got off that Ambassador D'vinn. My rogue was a joke until I got that thing.
I've always felt that if a group is able to get EXP off the camp they should get it. If no one is around let the high level person farm it, no harm no foul. Leveling spots were finite in EQ and when someone monopolizes one and they aren't getting EXP it bothered me. That's my presonal feelings though, not so much a mechanic I'm looking for.
I understand that, and I can agree with it as well. I just don't know that it's in the best interest for the longevity of the game. That's the part that I struggle with. While there was only one place that some items dropped there was always multiple places to hunt for exp and other loot. I never had any problem stepping aside and letting a group have the camp I was at when they needed the items. But the fact that I could pass the time and maybe make some in game coin for tearing up old zones always brought some satisfaction.
I'll tell you another thing it does to, in terms of EQ it lets you know how strong your character is becoming and how much more efficient they are getting. For instance I started out farming SolA with my Rogue on P99. When I was just 50 it still wasn't easy. I had to look over my shoulder a lot. But when I hit 55 and had more raid gear I could certainly tell that my attendance raiding was paying off. Little nuances like that can certainly keep someone playing a game longer.
As a droppable item loot system i would vote no on this implementation. TLC(Trivial Loot Code) works better for level specific farming issues on droppable items. TLC helps to promote mentoring down to gain access to loot drops as well. Also, with one per player drops it would skew the economy for those items in a bad direction. There are too many variables to consider.
I feel like the better way to go with this one and done droppable item is to focus on dynamic content so that items are only dropped either once or very rarely based on certain dynamic elements occuring ingame. Or tie these one and done items into quests/perception. So these would include Epic skills, items, spells, ect....
I will agree it is not a horrible idea, and definitly thinking outside the box, but i would disagree that it should be implemented. I can see where this could be a beneficial system so that once you loot an item you can't loot a duplicate of that item, but just place a no drop/lore tag on it so that if you happen to be stupid and destroy it on accident(assuming no recovery option) you could loot it again. I feel like this is creating a bigger and more complex system when there is a more simpler system available.
RNG gear? RNG content? TLC code?
Sounds like a game I want nothing to do with. /shrug
I actually enjoyed a lot of DDO until they dumbed down the development system with WoW trees and then turned the loot system into an RNG fest. Game turned to garbage rather quickly due to it.
Those features are game killers imo.
While some people are going to say this isnt a bad idea, but disagree, disagree is just another way of saying its a bad idea, no sugar coating here , this is a dumb idea, RNG is meant for combat, character attributes are meant to minimize it, this would definately cause this game to become boring and undesireable to play in a matter of a month or 2, name one game that didnt die due to a system like this, if you can i would ask why you are paying attention to pantheon or even care of its outcome once released, since your dream system already exhists.