Tanix said:Can't beat them, join them?
They might as well open up an RMT store?
As for FD, it has limitations. While it is possible for a monk to flop their way through some areas, this was EXTREMELY difficult in content of level. In fact, it was likely you would die getting through some areas. It would allow a monk to get through content that was lower than them with some ease, but there were even dangers then. Fact is, it was not a "get out of jail" free ability, it had its draw backs, and "risks" in use. If it were a danerous zone, chances are the monk would be killed a few times before they finally made it through, but if they were very clever they might be able to carefully get around. As for stealth, it had the same risks as well, but it was a lot harder because one see stealth mob and the rogue was toast (and there were mobs like this in some areas of the game).
Not sure how you came to the conclusion that just because coth is in the game that equates to an RMT store, but ok.
And I'm sorry, but as a necromancer i was able to virtually flop anywhere I needed to. So if you're saying you couldnt do it as a monk... well I question your experience in the game. Because that seems silly.
Again, removing useful and unique spells from the game in order to try and stop RMT is a fruitless venture. It will always exist. It doesnt matter if the only ability you have is auto attack. Instead of trying to stop people from RMTing, try and find a way to punish accounts that sell or advertise.
Tanix said:Well, you do realize RMT sites will use this feature as a means to more easily do RMT?
That is one part, the other part is that this also encourages players to lock down content and charge other players to access it.
Do you think that is a good design for a game?
This isn't allowing anyone to "more easily RMT" and if a group has an area locked down, just form another group and go contest them for it. This is an open world game, there will be contests for mobs and areas. I dont see how you get the conclusion that just because of a Summon spell a group can prevent others from reaching their areas...
Porygon said:Tanix said:Can't beat them, join them?
They might as well open up an RMT store?
As for FD, it has limitations. While it is possible for a monk to flop their way through some areas, this was EXTREMELY difficult in content of level. In fact, it was likely you would die getting through some areas. It would allow a monk to get through content that was lower than them with some ease, but there were even dangers then. Fact is, it was not a "get out of jail" free ability, it had its draw backs, and "risks" in use. If it were a danerous zone, chances are the monk would be killed a few times before they finally made it through, but if they were very clever they might be able to carefully get around. As for stealth, it had the same risks as well, but it was a lot harder because one see stealth mob and the rogue was toast (and there were mobs like this in some areas of the game).
Not sure how you came to the conclusion that just because coth is in the game that equates to an RMT store, but ok.
Tanix said:Second, being able to easily call people to the camp makes it easier for Item selling services, especially if they try to put any loot restrictions on items at the drop. The company can summon the customer to their camp easily, kill the mob, let them loot and send them on their way. I know you can never fully get rid of this problem, but I don't think the game mechanics should aid it.
I did comment on it, were you reading the thread or did you "skip" through it? /poke
As I said, this process aids RMT services by allowing them to lock down camps more easily and distribute dropped goods. That is, they camp it with 5, and then summon in the highest bidder for any drops.
Porygon said:And I'm sorry, but as a necromancer i was able to virtually flop anywhere I needed to. So if you're saying you couldnt do it as a monk... well I question your experience in the game. Because that seems silly.
Again, removing useful and unique spells from the game in order to try and stop RMT is a fruitless venture. It will always exist. It doesnt matter if the only ability you have is auto attack. Instead of trying to stop people from RMTing, try and find a way to punish accounts that sell or advertise.
I didn't say they could not get anwywhere, I said it had risk in such an undertaking. I know for a fact that if you FD flopped through Seb second level, as you passed the prison you died there for sure as the Ice comment casters were nasty. Also, as a necro I know you were a one hit wonder and were killed constantly with failed FDs. Your only saving grace was your invulnerability spell, but that was on a cool down. You ded a lot trying to "flop" through areas, I know this because a monk, with a lot better AC/Avoidance (pre-nerf) and 1000's hours more experience in pulling and FD'ing for raids and groups, I died a heck of a lot dying just trying to "flop" through a dangerous area.
The issue was not could you do it, but if there was risk and if you did a bit less "skipping" in your reading, you would have also seen where I said that I am fine with a CotH, but it should have a risk attached to it, lets say... maybe a chance to randomly drop a person in the area? Sound fair? or did you "skip" this as well?
Porygon said:Tanix said:Well, you do realize RMT sites will use this feature as a means to more easily do RMT?
That is one part, the other part is that this also encourages players to lock down content and charge other players to access it.
Do you think that is a good design for a game?
This isn't allowing anyone to "more easily RMT" and if a group has an area locked down, just form another group and go contest them for it. This is an open world game, there will be contests for mobs and areas. I dont see how you get the conclusion that just because of a Summon spell a group can prevent others from reaching their areas...
Contest them how? Oh....
I think I see... You are going to sit there as another group and try to kill the mobs as they have already broke the camp?
Go ahead, watch how you get black listed.
See how well that works out.
Tanix said:
Well, it certainly explains your position. You don't care if RMT is advanced by this and you are all for camp locking to force players to pay to even play the game.
That will go over well.
These are not my motivations for giving those answers. But go ahead, extrapolate and misrepresent all you want. Not gonna engage in this dishonesty anymore.
Tanix said:Porygon said:Tanix said:Well, you do realize RMT sites will use this feature as a means to more easily do RMT?
That is one part, the other part is that this also encourages players to lock down content and charge other players to access it.
Do you think that is a good design for a game?
This isn't allowing anyone to "more easily RMT" and if a group has an area locked down, just form another group and go contest them for it. This is an open world game, there will be contests for mobs and areas. I dont see how you get the conclusion that just because of a Summon spell a group can prevent others from reaching their areas...
Contest them how? Oh....
I think I see... You are going to sit there as another group and try to kill the mobs as they have already broke the camp?
Go ahead, watch how you get black listed.
See how well that works out.
No one wins that scenario lol. Happened a lot and you just get your guildies to come and it becomes a no one gets to kill anything fiasco lol. Or monks/sks running around with a bunch of mobs feign deathing near the groups to try and kill each other.
Spluffen said:Tanix said:
Well, it certainly explains your position. You don't care if RMT is advanced by this and you are all for camp locking to force players to pay to even play the game.
That will go over well.
These are not my motivations for giving those answers. But go ahead, extrapolate and misrepresent all you want. Not gonna engage in this dishonesty anymore.
In case you forgot how the conversation went:
Tanix said:Spluffen said:Tanix said:Spluffen said:Uh, how is finding ways to make in-game money in an efficient way in any way similar to having an RMT store?
Every bit of thing you sell to another player for money is a thing that is tied a respawn timer and as such is denied to anyone else for a bit. Why on earth would it be bad to sell cleared dungeons? lol
Let's rally around a persistent world game and then hate that there are other players playing the game the way they like... smh
Well, you do realize RMT sites will use this feature as a means to more easily do RMT?
That is one part, the other part is that this also encourages players to lock down content and charge other players to access it.
Do you think that is a good design for a game?
1) irrelevant
2) yes
Well, it certainly explains your position. You don't care if RMT is advanced by this and you are all for camp locking to force players to pay to even play the game.
That will go over well.
Yes, you did say
Spluffen said:1) irrelevant
When you read the context above, you are saying the effect this spell aiding RMT is irrelevant, that is, you do not think it important, you don't care, etc... is the logical deduction here.
So you are saying you do care about how this might have an effect on aiding RMT?
Then you said when I asked if locking down a camp to "Sell" people positions to get in is "a good design for a game", your reply:
Spluffen said:2) yes
I would say it is pretty clear and I did not misrepresent you.
You go ahead and clarify though, I would be happy for you to correct my misunderstanding there.
You can start by explaining why you answered as you did.
Watemper said:No one wins that scenario lol. Happened a lot and you just get your guildies to come and it becomes a no one gets to kill anything fiasco lol. Or monks/sks running around with a bunch of mobs feign deathing near the groups to try and kill each other.
Yeah, that happend from time to time, but it usually ended bad for the people who thought like that. I mean, if your attitude is that if you want a camp, you just go take it, well... eventually your name or guild gets plasterd on the boards enough where you are lucky to find a group.
I was a Test server player for the early years of EQ and we were very harsh on certain attitudes. When people talk about "community", Test server was a true community of players. We would occasionally get some production server players popping on with a swagger and they always would end up whining in EC about how they couldn't find a group. While reputation mattered on the production servers, you lived and died by your reputation on Test.
Walpurgis said:I don't mind a bulletin board type system where you can advertise you are looking for a group, but a system like World of Warcraft's? No thanks...
The forums on EQ as it concerned "black list" was exactly that. We had a thread where people would bring up black list issues, complaints etc..
The players who were targeted could come to the thread, defend themsleves, etc....
Back then, it worked fairly well as there was always a number of people to validate a given claim.
The bueaty of todays systems is players can "record" game play, text, and voice input to validate their issue of objection.
This makes it much more difficult for liars, cheats, and griefers to exist and the "black list" will take care of the rest.